Stange days indeed....

#26
#26
Can someone clue me into the financial situation of the buyout with firing Butch vs keeping him and firing at the end of the season?
 
#27
#27
orangeluvr said:
A quick fix is relieving Scott from play calling, the results speak for themselves. :idea:
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No it’s not. When will you guys ever learn? It’s Jones’ offense and Scott is gonna call what Jones wants called. Period.

Scott being replaced would fix absolutely nothing.
 
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#30
#30
UpstateVol613 said:
Also if you were watching the same Alabama game I was Tennessee has maybe 4 players who could even play for Alabama (Kelly, Gaulden, Warrior, and Trey Smith) Butch has definitely improved the talent level from Dooley but they are far from the Alabama’s, Georgia’s, LSU’s, and Auburn’s. Outside of Trey Smith do we have an offensive lineman who is SEC caliber? Does Josh Smith start at Wide Receiver for another SEC team?
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Riiiiiiiiiiight, considering we beat the same UGA team two years running, but we don't have the talent to compete.

The difference between UGA and us is they went out and got the right coach, where as we are still holding onto the wrong coach.

Get the right coach in here and we'll win it's that simple
 
#33
#33
jakez4ut said:
i hate it when people just start random, new threads, but i just only have a few things to say at this point. and i just don't see the need in going thru them all, hashing out all the what might have beens, and what should be's.

I'll just say this...i think Currie is probably doing what he should be doing publically. which is nothing. i don't get the anxiety about him not saying anything at this point. the local media in TN is also doing what they should be doing, reporting only what they're told, which is nothing, aside from "we don't want to fire Butch Jones". the columnists and talking heads will take care of the "what should happen" stuff.

which i believed to be the case when Currie was hired, and believe it to be the case today. but "doesnt' want" doesnt' necessairly = won't. i said last off season they wouldn't fire him unless he made it where they had no choice. if we're not there, we're as close as you can be. so i'm not so worried about Butch's future.

but put some pieces together about some of the scenarios out there, and the body of work...

1. fire Scott and hire a top notch OC for next year...which would most definitely be a make or break year...who in their right mind, that is a top notch OC would take that gig...hey, need you to come here to save the HC's job? you in? nope, that ship sailed the minute he promoted Scott.

2. if we beat KY, he can save his job. i don't buy that either. after 5 years, and the whole body of work, his career at TN is decided on the KY game? VAndy? LSU? nope, that ship sailed against SC last two years, VAndy last year, aTm last year and OU/FL/ARK two years ago. the body of work has to matter here, and i refuse to believe that our adiminstration is down to an ultimatum game(s) at this point. and i'm not real confident in our adiminstration in general, but that wouldn't make sense, even for them.

3. winning out, keep his job. i do think there' some merit to this, seeing as how it would include beating a resurgent LSU team. the problem...we aren't winning out. MO, USM and Vandy just aren't that good, and all three we can/should win. KY is just good enough at home, at night, and looking for a way to salvage what could have been a stand out season, to beat us, and LSU is plenty good enough. and it's been 14 quarters since we scored an offensive TD....you think we're winning out????

4. the team hans't quit. and that's a good thing. as upset as i am about things in general, i was pleased to see that team fight yesterday. overmatched and out coached as they were before they stepped on the field, they showed up for as long as they could.

5. and lastly, when you consider the gaffes in the game day coaching, the coaching hires that have not panned out, the lack of development of the good recruiting, the embarassment he continues to cause for this program when he opens his mouth, the groundswell of criticism this season, and the results to justify it....i just find it hard to believe that the money and the administration is turning a blind eye to all of it. fan apathy is there now, and that won't be ignored either. the only feather in his cap right now is that the team hasn't quit. that's it.

6. to me, this has moved way past x's and o's and jimmy and joe's, it's about the direction of the program and what those that run, expect it to be, and whether or not they can unify and make the correct decisions about firining butch jones and hiring his replacement. period. that's all this is at this point in my mind. and at this point, the accountability (and really, it has been for a long time now) should lie at the feet of those people....Currie was brought in, at least in part, as a result of this, and has an opportunity here to "make Tennessee great again".

anyway....it's 5 years later, and we're right back where we started. and that's really all you need to know.
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Quality posting (and thinking)
 
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#34
#34
jamesthesame said:
The quick fix would be to fire Butch Jones and rid the program of his conservative "Play not to lose" mentality.
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I knew yesterday's game was over (not that we had much chance anyway) when we punted on 4th and 2 inside Bama territory on our 1st or 2nd possession.
 
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#35
#35
jakez4ut said:
i hate it when people just start random, new threads, but i just only have a few things to say at this point. and i just don't see the need in going thru them all, hashing out all the what might have beens, and what should be's.

I'll just say this...i think Currie is probably doing what he should be doing publically. which is nothing. i don't get the anxiety about him not saying anything at this point. the local media in TN is also doing what they should be doing, reporting only what they're told, which is nothing, aside from "we don't want to fire Butch Jones". the columnists and talking heads will take care of the "what should happen" stuff.

which i believed to be the case when Currie was hired, and believe it to be the case today. but "doesnt' want" doesnt' necessairly = won't. i said last off season they wouldn't fire him unless he made it where they had no choice. if we're not there, we're as close as you can be. so i'm not so worried about Butch's future.

but put some pieces together about some of the scenarios out there, and the body of work...

1. fire Scott and hire a top notch OC for next year...which would most definitely be a make or break year...who in their right mind, that is a top notch OC would take that gig...hey, need you to come here to save the HC's job? you in? nope, that ship sailed the minute he promoted Scott.

2. if we beat KY, he can save his job. i don't buy that either. after 5 years, and the whole body of work, his career at TN is decided on the KY game? VAndy? LSU? nope, that ship sailed against SC last two years, VAndy last year, aTm last year and OU/FL/ARK two years ago. the body of work has to matter here, and i refuse to believe that our adiminstration is down to an ultimatum game(s) at this point. and i'm not real confident in our adiminstration in general, but that wouldn't make sense, even for them.

3. winning out, keep his job. i do think there' some merit to this, seeing as how it would include beating a resurgent LSU team. the problem...we aren't winning out. MO, USM and Vandy just aren't that good, and all three we can/should win. KY is just good enough at home, at night, and looking for a way to salvage what could have been a stand out season, to beat us, and LSU is plenty good enough. and it's been 14 quarters since we scored an offensive TD....you think we're winning out????

4. the team hans't quit. and that's a good thing. as upset as i am about things in general, i was pleased to see that team fight yesterday. overmatched and out coached as they were before they stepped on the field, they showed up for as long as they could.

5. and lastly, when you consider the gaffes in the game day coaching, the coaching hires that have not panned out, the lack of development of the good recruiting, the embarassment he continues to cause for this program when he opens his mouth, the groundswell of criticism this season, and the results to justify it....i just find it hard to believe that the money and the administration is turning a blind eye to all of it. fan apathy is there now, and that won't be ignored either. the only feather in his cap right now is that the team hasn't quit. that's it.

6. to me, this has moved way past x's and o's and jimmy and joe's, it's about the direction of the program and what those that run, expect it to be, and whether or not they can unify and make the correct decisions about firining butch jones and hiring his replacement. period. that's all this is at this point in my mind. and at this point, the accountability (and really, it has been for a long time now) should lie at the feet of those people....Currie was brought in, at least in part, as a result of this, and has an opportunity here to "make Tennessee great again".

anyway....it's 5 years later, and we're right back where we started. and that's really all you need to know.
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Well we're not playing UGA or Bama again, and JG now has his feet wet; there is a chance we win out; remember 1988.
 
#36
#36
jamesthesame said:
The quick fix would be to fire Butch Jones and rid the program of his conservative "Play not to lose" mentality.

Then, play a more aggressive offense and see what the kids can do.

It won't be any worse than what we got now. I think the team plays better with an aggressive coach.
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We played aggressive O against Fla. and look what that got us; three picks, and one of those was a pick 6 in the shadows of our own endzone.
 
#37
#37
BACKDOC said:
Well we're not playing UGA or Bama again, and JG now has his feet wet; there is a chance we win out; remember 1988.
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well, possibly, but I really doubt we win out, and so what if we did...keep Butch...seriously...:eek:lol:

PS. no...thanks anyway...:)

GO VOLS!
 
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#38
#38
BACKDOC said:
Well we're not playing UGA or Bama again, and JG now has his feet wet; there is a chance we win out; remember 1988.
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That's a mighty small chance. Every team left on the schedule has a better offense than we do and has a better coaching. The offense is bad in every way possible but the worst areas are the most critical. No big plays and the horrible redzone offense. My pick'em's will all be against Tennessee for the remainder of the season.
 
#39
#39
tennesseeduke said:
Yep so make Canales the OC and lets move on to UK.

:thud:

Tennesseeduke
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I say give Gillespie the nod. He seems to be the only competent offensive coach we have. You never know, he could be the answer at OC. Either way Butch has to go but I think we should try to retain Gillespie, he's definitely a good RB coach, special teams coach and recruiter. No way he's worse than Scott! I believe that ultimately Butch runs the offense and Dobbs covered up a lot of the offensive ineptitude but I also believe Scott has at least some say in the play calling because Bajakian(sp?) and Debord at least had some creativity and knew to try to get the ball in their playmakers the ball! Scott has no creativity and doesn't seem to have enough sense to go to his playmakers. Callaway is a beast yet we never give him a chance to go up and get the ball which he is more than capable of doing. Johnson is money on 3rd down and quick slants yet since he showed that vs UMASS we never give him a chance. I could go on and on but everyone sees what I see except whoever is calling the plays. It's pathetic and sad because we do have talent but it's being wasted. I'm sitting here watching Kamara show out and it makes me sick how little we utilized him. He should have been a 1st or 2nd round pick but Butch wasted his talent and it's a growing pattern that's costing us wins, $$ in lost revenue because people like me refuse to waste our hard earned dollars to come watch this garbage and it's costing potential NFL players the opportunity to make millions because Butch doesn't utilize their talents. No wonder Kamara and Malone jetted,staying would have only cost them in the draft. Sorry for the long po st but like everyone, I'm pissed because we really do have a lot of talented players that will end up undrafted free agents. Jennings, Kelly, Callaway, Byrd, Johnson, Richmond, Jones, Robertson, Hall,Smith and who knows who else. All of these players have NFL talent and Butch is ruining their chances. Those names were all highly-rated recruits yet we can't develop anyone and those are just on offense and off the top of my head.
 
#40
#40
Quality post and summary of the situation. Basically a "State of the Program Address."

Hard to disagree with anything said. It's where we are and what we are, and where do we go from here.
 
#42
#42
KBVol said:
No it’s not. When will you guys ever learn? It’s Jones’ offense and Scott is gonna call what Jones wants called. Period.

Scott being replaced would fix absolutely nothing.
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Hell yes it is Scott, the 'O' was much better with Debord at the helm. The difference is night and day . Several RPO are doing pretty good with freshmen and sophomore QBs, probably playing under experienced OCs. :yes:
 
#44
#44
ftsandersvol said:
I knew yesterday's game was over (not that we had much chance anyway) when we punted on 4th and 2 inside Bama territory on our 1st or 2nd possession.
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That's how we lost the florida game the year before last, and maybe the year before that as well.
 
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#45
#45
orangeluvr said:
Hell yes it is Scott, the 'O' was much better with Debord at the helm. The difference is night and day . Several RPO are doing pretty good with freshmen and sophomore QBs, probably playing under experienced OCs. :yes:
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The name you're looking for is josh Dobbs
 
#48
#48
zydane47 said:
Riiiiiiiiiiight, considering we beat the same UGA team two years running, but we don't have the talent to compete.

The difference between UGA and us is they went out and got the right coach, where as we are still holding onto the wrong coach.

Get the right coach in here and we'll win it's that simple
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Actually if you read my post I said we had maybe 4 players who could play for Bama.

What does TN beating UGA the prior 2 years have anything to do with the talent on this team? So do you think we have as many pro prospects as UGA on our team? Based on your logic when Boise St beat Oklahoma at the Fiesta Bowl they were the more talented team?
 
#49
#49
UpstateVol613 said:
Actually if you read my post I said we had maybe 4 players who could play for Bama.

What does TN beating UGA the prior 2 years have anything to do with the talent on this team? So do you think we have as many pro prospects as UGA on our team? Based on your logic when Boise St beat Oklahoma at the Fiesta Bowl they were the more talented team?
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Its a bigger picture issue in that at uga under smart, and at bama they continually get younger players reps and experience. Sometimes its meaningful game time reps as a rotational player, other times they see reps against inferior competition. Either way, its by design to develop the roster. Kirby was a bit lucky that several impact players came back this year, so it's been easier to rotate younger guys this year, instead of having to rely on those guys.

Butch was forced to start a lot of guys his first two years that simply weren't ready... It was a numbers issue and we didn't have them.

The last two years injuries forced some guys in to action that weren't ready.... But we missed the boat in several games that could have been good development games, that wound up closer than you like, and for whatever reason we simply don't rotate younger players like some other programs do.

There's also the attrition factor we've had to deal with, mainly the last 2 years.

Boil it all down, you don't recruit at the level butch has, and five years in not have "enough" talent. Nor can they all be busts.

I just don't think games nor rosters have been managed well enough to develop at the rate needed to a) compete for the conference and b) overcome injury/attrition.

And that's part of managing the program.
 
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#50
#50
fossilfiction said:
That's a mighty small chance. Every team left on the schedule has a better offense than we do and has a better coaching. The offense is bad in every way possible but the worst areas are the most critical. No big plays and the horrible redzone offense. My pick'em's will all be against Tennessee for the remainder of the season.
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it's the defenses we should pay attention to. our defense has actually played pretty well of late, just can't stay off the field.

looking at the match ups, you have potential for shootouts against KY and MO, and slobber knockers against Vandy and LSU.

MO's defense is absolutely awful, so i'd like to think we can score some points there. KY and Vandy are light years away from what GA and Bama field defensively, so i could see us getting right sort of against them.

LSU, they have a defense that can definitely shut us down, and wear our defense out late. i don't think LSU is a world beater, but match up wise, it doesn't look as good as it did a month ago.

VAndy is not fielding a typical vandy defense, and i can see that being a 17-13ish type game either way.

i'd say right now USM and MO should definitely be wins, Vandy/KY toss ups, and right now a lean to LSU to pull a W late in the game.

that's assuming nothing drastic changes, and the team doesn't quit, between now and the end of the season.
 
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