Stange days indeed....

[jakez4ut]

i hate it when people just start random, new threads, but i just only have a few things to say at this point. and i just don't see the need in going thru them all, hashing out all the what might have beens, and what should be's.

I'll just say this...i think Currie is probably doing what he should be doing publically. which is nothing. i don't get the anxiety about him not saying anything at this point. the local media in TN is also doing what they should be doing, reporting only what they're told, which is nothing, aside from "we don't want to fire Butch Jones". the columnists and talking heads will take care of the "what should happen" stuff.

which i believed to be the case when Currie was hired, and believe it to be the case today. but "doesnt' want" doesnt' necessairly = won't. i said last off season they wouldn't fire him unless he made it where they had no choice. if we're not there, we're as close as you can be. so i'm not so worried about Butch's future.

but put some pieces together about some of the scenarios out there, and the body of work...

1. fire Scott and hire a top notch OC for next year...which would most definitely be a make or break year...who in their right mind, that is a top notch OC would take that gig...hey, need you to come here to save the HC's job? you in? nope, that ship sailed the minute he promoted Scott.

2. if we beat KY, he can save his job. i don't buy that either. after 5 years, and the whole body of work, his career at TN is decided on the KY game? VAndy? LSU? nope, that ship sailed against SC last two years, VAndy last year, aTm last year and OU/FL/ARK two years ago. the body of work has to matter here, and i refuse to believe that our adiminstration is down to an ultimatum game(s) at this point. and i'm not real confident in our adiminstration in general, but that wouldn't make sense, even for them.

3. winning out, keep his job. i do think there' some merit to this, seeing as how it would include beating a resurgent LSU team. the problem...we aren't winning out. MO, USM and Vandy just aren't that good, and all three we can/should win. KY is just good enough at home, at night, and looking for a way to salvage what could have been a stand out season, to beat us, and LSU is plenty good enough. and it's been 14 quarters since we scored an offensive TD....you think we're winning out????

4. the team hans't quit. and that's a good thing. as upset as i am about things in general, i was pleased to see that team fight yesterday. overmatched and out coached as they were before they stepped on the field, they showed up for as long as they could.

5. and lastly, when you consider the gaffes in the game day coaching, the coaching hires that have not panned out, the lack of development of the good recruiting, the embarassment he continues to cause for this program when he opens his mouth, the groundswell of criticism this season, and the results to justify it....i just find it hard to believe that the money and the administration is turning a blind eye to all of it. fan apathy is there now, and that won't be ignored either. the only feather in his cap right now is that the team hasn't quit. that's it.

6. to me, this has moved way past x's and o's and jimmy and joe's, it's about the direction of the program and what those that run, expect it to be, and whether or not they can unify and make the correct decisions about firining butch jones and hiring his replacement. period. that's all this is at this point in my mind. and at this point, the accountability (and really, it has been for a long time now) should lie at the feet of those people....Currie was brought in, at least in part, as a result of this, and has an opportunity here to "make Tennessee great again".

anyway....it's 5 years later, and we're right back where we started. and that's really all you need to know.

 

[ptcarter]

anyway....it's 5 years later, and we're right back where we started. and that's really all you need to know.

Not quite back where we started, but close. The talent cupboard isn't as bare as what Dooley left us. Beyond that, it's obvious that Jone's fate is most likely sealed already, regardless of if he wins out (LSU looked pretty good last night, by the way).

A knee jerk firing won't fix this. It's going to take time. The fact that Currie isn't sharing what he's doing with D4H and others shouldn't be a cause for alarm. I hope he's taking his time and doing it RIGHT this time.

 

[orangeluvr]

A quick fix is relieving Scott from play calling, the results speak for themselves. :idea:

 

[james_govols]

The quick fix would be to fire Butch Jones and rid the program of his conservative "Play not to lose" mentality.

Then, play a more aggressive offense and see what the kids can do.

It won't be any worse than what we got now. I think the team plays better with an aggressive coach.

 

[GoVols15]

Is this whole mess real or am I having a nightmare! This must be a dream and I think I am dreaming some sick version of the Wizard of Oz. Butch Jones is playing the scarecrow, Saban is the wicked witch, Currie is The Wizard, and Scott is The Tin Man. I looked up and saw Smokey who was playing Toto.

I don't think this is going to end well!

 

[ACvol3]

OC candidates? I don't even know 1 premier OC that would be willing to leave no matter how much $

 

[fossilfiction]

We're in this together.

 

[InVOLuntary]

No way. To keep him you'd have to extend him. They're not extending him. He gone.

 

[orangeluvr]

The quick fix would be to fire Butch Jones and rid the program of his conservative "Play not to lose" mentality.

Then, play a more aggressive offense and see what the kids can do.

It won't be any worse than what we got now. I think the team plays better with an aggressive coach.

Don't look like Currie is gonna to pull the trigger on Jones anytime soon, Jones needs to pull the trigger on Scott's inept offense. Dreadful .

 

[vols1707]

Yea Jake no good OC is going to come coach for Butch for any amount of $$$

Tennessee is a sinking ship.

 

[05_never_again]

I don't think there is an ultimatum on if he's going to be fired. I think there might be an ultimatum on when he'll be fired.

I think the administration/boosters decided he needed to be fired either after the Georgia loss or South Carolina loss. It's just a matter of timing right now.

If the only loss remaining is to LSU, he'll be fired the Sunday morning after the Vanderbilt game. If he loses to anyone else, he'll be fired the Sunday morning after that game.

They are following the conventional wisdom here, but frankly if the decision has been made on letting him go you might as well do it. What exactly are they afraid of? Do they really think there is a chance the season could end worse if they fired him now as opposed to keeping him? Gimme a break. If we kept Butch through the end of the season, I would be embarrassed but by no means shocked if we don't win another game this year. That's with Butch through season's end. If you've already made a call that he's done, just let him go now.

 

[rockydoc]

Yea Jake no good OC is going to come coach for Butch for any amount of $$$

Tennessee is a sinking ship.

Exactly. Dooley tried to hire Kevin Steele for his last year instead instead of Sal but got a flat noway.

 

[Biopsyman]

Do you think Jones is going to load up on windbreakers on his way out?

 

[jakez4ut]

Do you think Jones is going to load up on windbreakers on his way out?

Lol

 

[volaholic333]

A quick fix is relieving Scott from play calling, the results speak for themselves. :idea:

Probably right, but Butch wouldn’t let Peyton Manning call plays. It’s not Scott, it’s Butch. The offense is the same regardless who the OC has been.

 

[fossilfiction]

Do you think Jones is going to load up on windbreakers on his way out?

Not if the termination is handled appropriately

 

[volmandu]

Exactly. Dooley tried to hire Kevin Steele for his last year instead instead of Sal but got a flat noway.

Nope. Kevin had agreed and deal was almost done but Clemson gave up 70 points in thier last game or bowl game. Dooley had to pull the trigger and said no. Dooley admitted to this in an interview.

 

[Unimane]

Probably right, but Butch wouldn’t let Peyton Manning call plays. It’s not Scott, it’s Butch. The offense is the same regardless who the OC has been.

Exactly. This offense is Butch's through and through, but, this year, without Josh Dobbs to cover for the ineptness of it.

 

[gramey123]

I don't think there is an ultimatum on if he's going to be fired. I think there might be an ultimatum on when he'll be fired.

I think the administration/boosters decided he needed to be fired either after the Georgia loss or South Carolina loss. It's just a matter of timing right now.

If the only loss remaining is to LSU, he'll be fired the Sunday morning after the Vanderbilt game. If he loses to anyone else, he'll be fired the Sunday morning after that game.

They are following the conventional wisdom here, but frankly if the decision has been made on letting him go you might as well do it. What exactly are they afraid of? Do they really think there is a chance the season could end worse if they fired him now as opposed to keeping him? Gimme a break. If we kept Butch through the end of the season, I would be embarrassed but by no means shocked if we don't win another game this year. That's with Butch through season's end. If you've already made a call that he's done, just let him go now.

TN played a team that was just better than any member of TN. Alabama showed their talent and their recruiting stars. TN CAN NOT COMPETE in the SEC. They simply don't have the player on the same level as Alabama and we know Butch Jones isn't on the same level with Saban. All of this can change if UT wants to. Are they willing to shell out the $ for a new coach and is Butch's replacement a proven winner. Not a TV ESPN star but a down in the ditches head coach. One who knows how to plan to win. When you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Ask Butch! You can wait until the season is over. The best fit may already be hired by another team and we may lose more recruits. So, John Currier what are you going to do.....

 

[jasonvol18]

i hate it when people just start random, new threads, but i just only have a few things to say at this point. and i just don't see the need in going thru them all, hashing out all the what might have beens, and what should be's.

I'll just say this...i think Currie is probably doing what he should be doing publically. which is nothing. i don't get the anxiety about him not saying anything at this point. the local media in TN is also doing what they should be doing, reporting only what they're told, which is nothing, aside from "we don't want to fire Butch Jones". the columnists and talking heads will take care of the "what should happen" stuff.

which i believed to be the case when Currie was hired, and believe it to be the case today. but "doesnt' want" doesnt' necessairly = won't. i said last off season they wouldn't fire him unless he made it where they had no choice. if we're not there, we're as close as you can be. so i'm not so worried about Butch's future.

but put some pieces together about some of the scenarios out there, and the body of work...

1. fire Scott and hire a top notch OC for next year...which would most definitely be a make or break year...who in their right mind, that is a top notch OC would take that gig...hey, need you to come here to save the HC's job? you in? nope, that ship sailed the minute he promoted Scott.

2. if we beat KY, he can save his job. i don't buy that either. after 5 years, and the whole body of work, his career at TN is decided on the KY game? VAndy? LSU? nope, that ship sailed against SC last two years, VAndy last year, aTm last year and OU/FL/ARK two years ago. the body of work has to matter here, and i refuse to believe that our adiminstration is down to an ultimatum game(s) at this point. and i'm not real confident in our adiminstration in general, but that wouldn't make sense, even for them.

3. winning out, keep his job. i do think there' some merit to this, seeing as how it would include beating a resurgent LSU team. the problem...we aren't winning out. MO, USM and Vandy just aren't that good, and all three we can/should win. KY is just good enough at home, at night, and looking for a way to salvage what could have been a stand out season, to beat us, and LSU is plenty good enough. and it's been 14 quarters since we scored an offensive TD....you think we're winning out????

4. the team hans't quit. and that's a good thing. as upset as i am about things in general, i was pleased to see that team fight yesterday. overmatched and out coached as they were before they stepped on the field, they showed up for as long as they could.

5. and lastly, when you consider the gaffes in the game day coaching, the coaching hires that have not panned out, the lack of development of the good recruiting, the embarassment he continues to cause for this program when he opens his mouth, the groundswell of criticism this season, and the results to justify it....i just find it hard to believe that the money and the administration is turning a blind eye to all of it. fan apathy is there now, and that won't be ignored either. the only feather in his cap right now is that the team hasn't quit. that's it.

6. to me, this has moved way past x's and o's and jimmy and joe's, it's about the direction of the program and what those that run, expect it to be, and whether or not they can unify and make the correct decisions about firining butch jones and hiring his replacement. period. that's all this is at this point in my mind. and at this point, the accountability (and really, it has been for a long time now) should lie at the feet of those people....Currie was brought in, at least in part, as a result of this, and has an opportunity here to "make Tennessee great again".

anyway....it's 5 years later, and we're right back where we started. and that's really all you need to know.

At this point of the year we aren't better than Mizzou, Vandy or S.Miss. Are they winnable games? Absolutely. But Butch doesn't always win the winnable and should win type games. And even digging into it a lil further we have lost 5 straight SEC games, are 2-8 our last 10 in the conference and 14 straight Quarters without an offensive TD. Can even add after starting 5-0 last year we are 7-8 since then. Nothing about those things say we have a 5 game winning streak in us this year. And nothing about any of those stats say we are headed in the right direction and actually says the exact opposite.

 

[tennrich1]

The quick fix would be to fire Butch Jones and rid the program of his conservative "Play not to lose" mentality.

Then, play a more aggressive offense and see what the kids can do.

It won't be any worse than what we got now. I think the team plays better with an aggressive coach.

With our OLine having trouble holding block to be “aggressive” what type of non conservative calls would you recommend? Just curious. We tried several times against Bama to be wide open and almost got our QB killed.... I’ll hang up and listen!

 

[jbr82]

A quick fix is relieving Scott from play calling, the results speak for themselves. :idea:

I bet CBJ is apart of the play calling to. Plus the OL , WR, and QB coaches are bad and disfunction. Micromanaging as well.

 

[james_govols]

With our OLine having trouble holding block to be “aggressive” what type of non conservative calls would you recommend? Just curious. We tried several times against Bama to be wide open and almost got our QB killed.... I’ll hang up and listen!

Should we use the same strategy against Kentucky that we use against Alabama? Is Kentucky as much of a threat as Alabama?

I think the obvious answer is no. So what works against Kentucky will be different than what didn't work against Alabama.

What I'm trying to say is, nothing we could have done would beat Alabama. However, playing more aggressive against Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and Missouri could let us beat all three.

With that said, Butch has lost many games due to his conservative nature.

Remember the South Carolina game from a few weeks ago? Remember how in the 1st quarter we were very unpredictable on offense? We were running reverses and a steady mixture of passes and runs.

Then Butch decided to botch the rest of the game. We quickly reverted, after a 9 point lead, to running twice on 1st and 2nd and throwing on 3rd and long. We became predictable again.

We need a new coach who is more aggressive. Who likes throwing the ball further than 2 yards from the LOS when leading.

 

[tennesseeduke]

Don't look like Currie is gonna to pull the trigger on Jones anytime soon, Jones needs to pull the trigger on Scott's inept offense. Dreadful .

Yep so make Canales the OC and lets move on to UK.

:thud:

Tennesseeduke

 

[UpstateVol613]

Not quite back where we started, but close. The talent cupboard isn't as bare as what Dooley left us. Beyond that, it's obvious that Jone's fate is most likely sealed already, regardless of if he wins out (LSU looked pretty good last night, by the way).

A knee jerk firing won't fix this. It's going to take time. The fact that Currie isn't sharing what he's doing with D4H and others shouldn't be a cause for alarm. I hope he's taking his time and doing it RIGHT this time.

Agreed!! Everyone agrees that Butch is gone and now it just comes down to when. I don’t see any advantage to just firing Butch on the spot to have an interim coach for the rest of the season. I would rather Currie negotiate the buyout down or wait until the season is over and it goes down automatically. Butch and Currie talk regularly so I am sure he has already told Butch he is done. Also has told him that he is using backchannels and feelers to gauge interest from coaches who are currently coaching.

Also if you were watching the same Alabama game I was Tennessee has maybe 4 players who could even play for Alabama (Kelly, Gaulden, Warrior, and Trey Smith) Butch has definitely improved the talent level from Dooley but they are far from the Alabama’s, Georgia’s, LSU’s, and Auburn’s. Outside of Trey Smith do we have an offensive lineman who is SEC caliber? Does Josh Smith start at Wide Receiver for another SEC team?