Stability

#1
tvolsfan

tvolsfan

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#1
The obsession and importance placed on stability is bull****.

The reason I'm starting this thread should be obvious. Yet another Tennessee coach has a significant portion of the fan base banging their heads against the wall, and once again, the fan base is divided. However, one thing that most seem to accept is that the program should not make another coaching change. The main reason is that people seem to think stability is extremely important.

This is crazy.

There may have been a time where coaches needed many years to turn programs around, but that time is over. Since 2000, every single national championship winning coach (with the exception of Mack Brown) won their first title within their first four years with the school. Most won within their first three years. Coaches have shown the ability to pull in big recruiting classes earlier, and the results on the field often show it. Stability can be helpful, but it isn't nearly as important as making sure the right guy is in charge. If you don't have the right guy, you should find him as soon as possible.

Now I'm not saying that Tennessee should fire every coach who doesn't win a national championship within the first three or four seasons. However, it's absolutely crazy to pretend that making changes destroys programs. How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools? Why do Tennessee fans often insist on everything collapsing before making changes. We always hear the same excuses: "Nobody wants the job." "We don't have any money." "If we make a change, we have to completely start over." Yet holding on to mediocre coaches fixes none of those things, and simply makes them worse. We may be the only fan base who tries to fix something that's broken by changing as little as possible.

Now credit where it's due. Dooley was an awful coach, and Butch has done a good job rebuilding the roster. However, Butch won't continue pulling in talent without showing results on the field, so why should we wait until the talent is squandered before doing something about it? If Tennessee loses five games this year and Butch is fired, we do have a roster that would appeal to potential coaches. But if we delay action long enough for the recruiting to suffer, we'll again find ourselves in a situation where we have to google the name of our next hire.

The great irony in all this is that while we obsess over stability, we get less of it than anyone. Because the truth is there is no stability while you suck. People are unhappy, recruits and assistants jump ship, and inevitably, the change is made anyways. There is only one way to really attain stability, and that's hiring the right coach and letting him do his job.

So unless I'm mistaken about what this staff is capable of, we will end up having to make another coaching change. Maybe not this year, but it's coming. We can either embrace it and try to get things right this time, or we can stay the course out of fear and whine about how we're "cursed" when all our rivals beat us into the dirt again and again. But there is no curse. We're just getting what we deserve.
 
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#3
#3
tvolsfan said:
The obsession and importance placed on stability is bull****.

The reason I'm starting this thread should be obvious. Yet another Tennessee coach has a significant portion of the fan base banging their heads against the wall, and once again, the fan base is divided. However, one thing that most seem to accept is that the program should not make another coaching change. The main reason is that people seem to think stability is extremely important.

This is crazy.

There may have been a time where coaches needed many years to turn programs around, but that time is over. Since 2000, every single national championship winning coach (with the exception of Mack Brown) won their first title within their first four years with the school. Most won within their first three years. Coaches have shown the ability to pull in big recruiting classes earlier, and the results on the field often show it. Stability can be helpful, but it isn't nearly as important as making sure the right guy is in charge. If you don't have the right guy, you should find him as soon as possible.

Now I'm not saying that Tennessee should fire every coach who doesn't win a national championship within the first three or four seasons. However, it's absolutely crazy to pretend that making changes destroys programs. How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools? Why do Tennessee fans often insist on everything collapsing before making changes. We always hear the same excuses: "Nobody wants the job." "We don't have any money." "If we make a change, we have to completely start over." Yet holding on to mediocre coaches fixes none of those things, and simply makes them worse. We may be the only fan base who tries to fix something that's broken by changing as little as possible.

Now credit where it's due. Dooley was an awful coach, and Butch has done a good job rebuilding the roster. However, Butch won't continue pulling in talent without showing results on the field, so why should we wait until the talent is squandered before doing something about it? If Tennessee loses five games this year and Butch is fired, we do have a roster that would appeal to potential coaches. But if we delay action long enough for the recruiting to suffer, we'll again find ourselves in a situation where we have to google the name of our next hire.

The great irony in all this is that while we obsess over stability, we get less of it than anyone. Because the truth is there is no stability while you suck. People are unhappy, recruits and assistants jump ship, and inevitably, the change is made anyways. There is only one way to really attain stability, and that's hiring the right coach and letting him do his job.

So unless I'm mistaken about what this staff is capable of, we will end up having to make another coaching change. Maybe not this year, but it's coming. We can either embrace it and try to get things right this time, or we can stay the course out of fear and whine about how we're "cursed" when all our rivals beat us into the dirt again and again. But there is no curse. We're just getting what we deserve.
Click to expand...

Flight of the Phoenix?
 
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#4
#4
The last sentence is totally wrong. We do not deserve to loose games like we do. Pig fumbling at the one, 12 men on the field, North Carolina. Those players do not deserve it and we as fans do not deserve it. Everyone single one of us has been getting tested for the last 10 or so years, and if we stick it out all of this will be forgotten. To say we deserve these loses is absolutely insane, and not to mention Neyland stills fills up week after week. That is dedication.
 
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#6
#6
Hurd Peyton is retiring after this season and coming back to be QB's coach... a year or two after that he will be head coach... its all good....
 
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#7
#7
Wasn't it originally said that 2016 was going to be our year to shine? With the bowl game blow out and all the preseason media hype, everyone got their expectations up way to much for 2015 and now are ready to fire Jones and/or jump off a cliff. I think we need to go back to our original expectations.
 
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#8
#8
here's the problem. there's no rule or roadmap that says if you do this, that will happen, it's about the right hire.

you can go back and look over the last 20+ years, and for every coach that won it all in 4 years, there's another program that has sunk so far down. think about some of these programs and coaches they had to endure or are enduring.....

Nebraska has never recovered after Osbourne left.
Michigan hasn't recovered since Carr left
we haven't recovered since Fulmer left
USC hasn't fully recovered since Carroll left...
ND went forever in mediocrity after Holtz.
OU was nothing but average for more than a decade after Switzer until Stoops was hired.
Bama was average at best after Stallings left...
GA was a 2nd tier team for well over a decade after Dooley.

all i'm saying is that it's not tit for tat. it's about the right hire. fortunately for all of these programs above, they, most of them anyway, went on to find the right hire. but in most cases it was not an overnight thing.

Florida didn't go from Spurrier directly to Meyer. Bama didn't go directly from Stallings to Saban is my point. it rarely happens you go from great to great. LSU maybe the only one that i can think of right off...Saban to Miles, both won NT's...

then there's the programs that have risen from the ashes like Ole Miss, MSU, TCU, Baylor etc...but in most of those cases, those coaches have been there a minute or two, and had to do basically the same thing CBJ is doing at UT.

anyway...i am a firm believer that if you know a change needs to be made, there's no need to wait. every minute you wait, makes the future less bright.

but i don't know for sure that we're there yet with CBJ though. there's enough good going on off the field to want to see how the rest of this year and next year turn out.

but there is a line of demarcation for everyone.
 
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#9
#9
tvolsfan said:
The obsession and importance placed on stability is bull****.

The reason I'm starting this thread should be obvious. Yet another Tennessee coach has a significant portion of the fan base banging their heads against the wall, and once again, the fan base is divided. However, one thing that most seem to accept is that the program should not make another coaching change. The main reason is that people seem to think stability is extremely important.

This is crazy.

There may have been a time where coaches needed many years to turn programs around, but that time is over. Since 2000, every single national championship winning coach (with the exception of Mack Brown) won their first title within their first four years with the school. Most won within their first three years. Coaches have shown the ability to pull in big recruiting classes earlier, and the results on the field often show it. Stability can be helpful, but it isn't nearly as important as making sure the right guy is in charge. If you don't have the right guy, you should find him as soon as possible.

Now I'm not saying that Tennessee should fire every coach who doesn't win a national championship within the first three or four seasons. However, it's absolutely crazy to pretend that making changes destroys programs. How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools? Why do Tennessee fans often insist on everything collapsing before making changes. We always hear the same excuses: "Nobody wants the job." "We don't have any money." "If we make a change, we have to completely start over." Yet holding on to mediocre coaches fixes none of those things, and simply makes them worse. We may be the only fan base who tries to fix something that's broken by changing as little as possible.

Now credit where it's due. Dooley was an awful coach, and Butch has done a good job rebuilding the roster. However, Butch won't continue pulling in talent without showing results on the field, so why should we wait until the talent is squandered before doing something about it? If Tennessee loses five games this year and Butch is fired, we do have a roster that would appeal to potential coaches. But if we delay action long enough for the recruiting to suffer, we'll again find ourselves in a situation where we have to google the name of our next hire.

The great irony in all this is that while we obsess over stability, we get less of it than anyone. Because the truth is there is no stability while you suck. People are unhappy, recruits and assistants jump ship, and inevitably, the change is made anyways. There is only one way to really attain stability, and that's hiring the right coach and letting him do his job.

So unless I'm mistaken about what this staff is capable of, we will end up having to make another coaching change. Maybe not this year, but it's coming. We can either embrace it and try to get things right this time, or we can stay the course out of fear and whine about how we're "cursed" when all our rivals beat us into the dirt again and again. But there is no curse. We're just getting what we deserve.
Click to expand...

You are exactly right, but the cult of personality coach worshipers will shoot it down. I think they get tired of making their shrines every 3 years, and printing their shirts, University of Dooley, University of Butch, etc. They just need more time.
 
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#10
#10
Fatman Photos said:
Wasn't it originally said that 2016 was going to be our year to shine? With the bowl game blow out and all the preseason media hype, everyone got their expectations up way to much for 2015 and now are ready to fire Jones and/or jump off a cliff. I think we need to go back to our original expectations.
Click to expand...

Changes week to week
 
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#11
#11
tvolsfan said:
The obsession and importance placed on stability is bull****.

The reason I'm starting this thread should be obvious. Yet another Tennessee coach has a significant portion of the fan base banging their heads against the wall, and once again, the fan base is divided. However, one thing that most seem to accept is that the program should not make another coaching change. The main reason is that people seem to think stability is extremely important.

This is crazy.

There may have been a time where coaches needed many years to turn programs around, but that time is over. Since 2000, every single national championship winning coach (with the exception of Mack Brown) won their first title within their first four years with the school. Most won within their first three years. Coaches have shown the ability to pull in big recruiting classes earlier, and the results on the field often show it. Stability can be helpful, but it isn't nearly as important as making sure the right guy is in charge. If you don't have the right guy, you should find him as soon as possible.

Now I'm not saying that Tennessee should fire every coach who doesn't win a national championship within the first three or four seasons. However, it's absolutely crazy to pretend that making changes destroys programs. How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools? Why do Tennessee fans often insist on everything collapsing before making changes. We always hear the same excuses: "Nobody wants the job." "We don't have any money." "If we make a change, we have to completely start over." Yet holding on to mediocre coaches fixes none of those things, and simply makes them worse. We may be the only fan base who tries to fix something that's broken by changing as little as possible.

Now credit where it's due. Dooley was an awful coach, and Butch has done a good job rebuilding the roster. However, Butch won't continue pulling in talent without showing results on the field, so why should we wait until the talent is squandered before doing something about it? If Tennessee loses five games this year and Butch is fired, we do have a roster that would appeal to potential coaches. But if we delay action long enough for the recruiting to suffer, we'll again find ourselves in a situation where we have to google the name of our next hire.

The great irony in all this is that while we obsess over stability, we get less of it than anyone. Because the truth is there is no stability while you suck. People are unhappy, recruits and assistants jump ship, and inevitably, the change is made anyways. There is only one way to really attain stability, and that's hiring the right coach and letting him do his job.

So unless I'm mistaken about what this staff is capable of, we will end up having to make another coaching change. Maybe not this year, but it's coming. We can either embrace it and try to get things right this time, or we can stay the course out of fear and whine about how we're "cursed" when all our rivals beat us into the dirt again and again. But there is no curse. We're just getting what we deserve.
Click to expand...

You really make me feel like an adolescent being lectured by his overbearing father.
 
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#12
#12
tvolsfan said:
The obsession and importance placed on stability is bull****.

The reason I'm starting this thread should be obvious. Yet another Tennessee coach has a significant portion of the fan base banging their heads against the wall, and once again, the fan base is divided. However, one thing that most seem to accept is that the program should not make another coaching change. The main reason is that people seem to think stability is extremely important.

This is crazy.

There may have been a time where coaches needed many years to turn programs around, but that time is over. Since 2000, every single national championship winning coach (with the exception of Mack Brown) won their first title within their first four years with the school. Most won within their first three years. Coaches have shown the ability to pull in big recruiting classes earlier, and the results on the field often show it. Stability can be helpful, but it isn't nearly as important as making sure the right guy is in charge. If you don't have the right guy, you should find him as soon as possible.

Now I'm not saying that Tennessee should fire every coach who doesn't win a national championship within the first three or four seasons. However, it's absolutely crazy to pretend that making changes destroys programs. How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools? Why do Tennessee fans often insist on everything collapsing before making changes. We always hear the same excuses: "Nobody wants the job." "We don't have any money." "If we make a change, we have to completely start over." Yet holding on to mediocre coaches fixes none of those things, and simply makes them worse. We may be the only fan base who tries to fix something that's broken by changing as little as possible.

Now credit where it's due. Dooley was an awful coach, and Butch has done a good job rebuilding the roster. However, Butch won't continue pulling in talent without showing results on the field, so why should we wait until the talent is squandered before doing something about it? If Tennessee loses five games this year and Butch is fired, we do have a roster that would appeal to potential coaches. But if we delay action long enough for the recruiting to suffer, we'll again find ourselves in a situation where we have to google the name of our next hire.

The great irony in all this is that while we obsess over stability, we get less of it than anyone. Because the truth is there is no stability while you suck. People are unhappy, recruits and assistants jump ship, and inevitably, the change is made anyways. There is only one way to really attain stability, and that's hiring the right coach and letting him do his job.

So unless I'm mistaken about what this staff is capable of, we will end up having to make another coaching change. Maybe not this year, but it's coming. We can either embrace it and try to get things right this time, or we can stay the course out of fear and whine about how we're "cursed" when all our rivals beat us into the dirt again and again. But there is no curse. We're just getting what we deserve.
Click to expand...

Because they are as stubborn as the coaches we have now. They wont change until after they figure out they had the chart upside down the whole time.
 
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#13
#13
how about waiting to see what our record is at the end of the season before you start calling for the coach to be fired midway thru the season.
 
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#16
#16
tvolsfan said:
The obsession and importance placed on stability is bull****.

The reason I'm starting this thread should be obvious. Yet another Tennessee coach has a significant portion of the fan base banging their heads against the wall, and once again, the fan base is divided. However, one thing that most seem to accept is that the program should not make another coaching change. The main reason is that people seem to think stability is extremely important.

This is crazy.

There may have been a time where coaches needed many years to turn programs around, but that time is over. Since 2000, every single national championship winning coach (with the exception of Mack Brown) won their first title within their first four years with the school. Most won within their first three years. Coaches have shown the ability to pull in big recruiting classes earlier, and the results on the field often show it. Stability can be helpful, but it isn't nearly as important as making sure the right guy is in charge. If you don't have the right guy, you should find him as soon as possible.

Now I'm not saying that Tennessee should fire every coach who doesn't win a national championship within the first three or four seasons. However, it's absolutely crazy to pretend that making changes destroys programs. How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools? Why do Tennessee fans often insist on everything collapsing before making changes. We always hear the same excuses: "Nobody wants the job." "We don't have any money." "If we make a change, we have to completely start over." Yet holding on to mediocre coaches fixes none of those things, and simply makes them worse. We may be the only fan base who tries to fix something that's broken by changing as little as possible.

Now credit where it's due. Dooley was an awful coach, and Butch has done a good job rebuilding the roster. However, Butch won't continue pulling in talent without showing results on the field, so why should we wait until the talent is squandered before doing something about it? If Tennessee loses five games this year and Butch is fired, we do have a roster that would appeal to potential coaches. But if we delay action long enough for the recruiting to suffer, we'll again find ourselves in a situation where we have to google the name of our next hire.

The great irony in all this is that while we obsess over stability, we get less of it than anyone. Because the truth is there is no stability while you suck. People are unhappy, recruits and assistants jump ship, and inevitably, the change is made anyways. There is only one way to really attain stability, and that's hiring the right coach and letting him do his job.

So unless I'm mistaken about what this staff is capable of, we will end up having to make another coaching change. Maybe not this year, but it's coming. We can either embrace it and try to get things right this time, or we can stay the course out of fear and whine about how we're "cursed" when all our rivals beat us into the dirt again and again. But there is no curse. We're just getting what we deserve.
Click to expand...
I agree. Hart needs to keep CBJ and in the meantime put feelers out. Let's let the next coach approach us. Every coach in America knows the state of our program. Someone great will contact Hart and want the job. No more overnight hires.
 
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#17
#17
Fatman Photos said:
Wasn't it originally said that 2016 was going to be our year to shine? With the bowl game blow out and all the preseason media hype, everyone got their expectations up way to much for 2015 and now are ready to fire Jones and/or jump off a cliff. I think we need to go back to our original expectations.
Click to expand...

But you have to improve steadily every year. Has that happened. No. We are regressing
 
#18
#18
Enjoyed your post, well-written and thoughtful. This line is what angers me about our current situation...

"How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools?

Based on the 4 games we've played in, the skies in front of us don't look too promising. This has rubbed off on the fan base and it will rub off on the players...and then....bye, bye CBJ.

Saturday's game could be a "tipping point" for CBJ's tenure at UT. If he loses this game, we may well not break 500 for the year ---- then some serious decisions must be made.
 
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#19
#19
Stability is nothing. Vanderbilt has stability. Winning 3 games a year is stable. It isn't time to pull the plug but it IS time to turn up the heat.
 
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#20
#20
I think there are always indicators.

It was obvious CDD had issues and a ton of fans here were fully behind him until the train completely left the tracks.

I hate to jump to conclusions, but early indicators point to Butch being a great program guy and a bad "x's and o's" guy. It takes both.

There are just some folks who refuse to even consider looking at the writing on the wall. I really think the 2015 season tells us what we need to know. 2016 will only reaffirm what 2015 would have already told us.

If we don't hire a PROVEN coach (and CDD and CBJ aren't) then it becomes a statistics game and how many coaches do we go through until we 1) get a good one or 2) pony up the money for a proven one.

This is exactly why I think Hart is an idiot. Before we had much information at all on Butch the dumbass goes ahead and extends his contract. CBJ could be "the man" or he could be Captain Mediocrity...Dave Hart jumped the gun on that move.
 
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#21
#21
tvolsfan said:
The obsession and importance placed on stability is bull****.

The reason I'm starting this thread should be obvious. Yet another Tennessee coach has a significant portion of the fan base banging their heads against the wall, and once again, the fan base is divided. However, one thing that most seem to accept is that the program should not make another coaching change. The main reason is that people seem to think stability is extremely important.

This is crazy.

There may have been a time where coaches needed many years to turn programs around, but that time is over. Since 2000, every single national championship winning coach (with the exception of Mack Brown) won their first title within their first four years with the school. Most won within their first three years. Coaches have shown the ability to pull in big recruiting classes earlier, and the results on the field often show it. Stability can be helpful, but it isn't nearly as important as making sure the right guy is in charge. If you don't have the right guy, you should find him as soon as possible.

Now I'm not saying that Tennessee should fire every coach who doesn't win a national championship within the first three or four seasons. However, it's absolutely crazy to pretend that making changes destroys programs. How many times do we need to see ourselves beaten down while new coaches win quickly at different schools? Why do Tennessee fans often insist on everything collapsing before making changes. We always hear the same excuses: "Nobody wants the job." "We don't have any money." "If we make a change, we have to completely start over." Yet holding on to mediocre coaches fixes none of those things, and simply makes them worse. We may be the only fan base who tries to fix something that's broken by changing as little as possible.

Now credit where it's due. Dooley was an awful coach, and Butch has done a good job rebuilding the roster. However, Butch won't continue pulling in talent without showing results on the field, so why should we wait until the talent is squandered before doing something about it? If Tennessee loses five games this year and Butch is fired, we do have a roster that would appeal to potential coaches. But if we delay action long enough for the recruiting to suffer, we'll again find ourselves in a situation where we have to google the name of our next hire.

The great irony in all this is that while we obsess over stability, we get less of it than anyone. Because the truth is there is no stability while you suck. People are unhappy, recruits and assistants jump ship, and inevitably, the change is made anyways. There is only one way to really attain stability, and that's hiring the right coach and letting him do his job.

So unless I'm mistaken about what this staff is capable of, we will end up having to make another coaching change. Maybe not this year, but it's coming. We can either embrace it and try to get things right this time, or we can stay the course out of fear and whine about how we're "cursed" when all our rivals beat us into the dirt again and again. But there is no curse. We're just getting what we deserve.
Click to expand...

You must be a wizard to have all this knowledge. People can't handle all this mystic knowledge.
 
#22
#22
vol24/7/365 said:
But you have to improve steadily every year. Has that happened. No. We are regressing
Click to expand...

I don't think we are regressing. The team is better in some areas.

We're going to know CBJ's ceiling soon enough.

Next year, IMO, is probably the pure, no-excuses year for me. I think he's underperforming now, but next year, he'll have a team with talent, experience, and one that has completely developed under his system. Whatever you see next year is pretty much as good as it's going to get. Unfortunately, my gut tells me it will not make the cut.
 
#24
#24
TacomaJPP said:
. . . If we don't hire a PROVEN coach (and CDD and CBJ aren't) then it becomes a statistics game and how many coaches do we go through until we 1) get a good one or 2) pony up the money for a proven one. . .
Click to expand...

Unless some of the big-roll boosters suddenly have a change of heart (which may or may not also require a change of Hart) a proven coach is not going to happen.

The money just is not there. UT doesn't have significant reserves at this point, and it takes a HUGE amount of money to draw a coach from a successful bigger program.

Tennessee can't pay Saban money AND pay CBJ's buyout AND pay the contract termination fees to whatever school you steal the guy from.

your options for the next several years are going to be :

1. Roll the dice on a mid conference guy (CBJ 2.0)
2. Roll the dice on a top conference coordinator (Muschamp 2.0) or NFL coordinator
3. Pick up a fired coach from the NFL

Tennessee doesn't have $30 million to spend on football coaches in the next 3 years.
 
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