Sporting News Ranks SEC coaches: Butch 10th

#126
#126
DaddyChad said:
No idea how I would rank Spurrier if I were doing the list. Is it ranking the current greatness of the coach because I think he is way too high in that case. Would you rank Spurrier ahead of Miles currently? Heck would you take Spurrier over Jones. Jones has owned him when the teams had similar talent and now Jones recruiting is trending upward whereas Spurrier is trending down.
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Yeah, Daddy, I agree. And TriadVolFan mentioned kind of the same thing, above. You'd think the writer would lay out what his perspective was for the write-up. A historical piece, looking back? Or a forward-looking list anticipating future success?

That's what I think I'd do if I were him: have two different articles, one looking back and the other one forward. In the rearview mirror piece, Spurrier would be right up top with Saban, while Bielema and Butch would be holding hands in the 10-12 range ... in the forward-looking article, Spurrier would take the seats occupied by Butch and Bret, and they'd lift up to the 5-8 range. Based entirely on anticipation of trends as we're seeing them emerge now.

That's how I'd do it, in his place. Plus, he'd get two articles out of it, instead of just one. :)
 
#128
#128
By the way, here's a shocking stat on Bret Bielema in the SEC thus far:

He has dug himself a deep enough hole in the Win-Loss record of SEC play that he could go 8-0 (a perfect season!) in SEC play, and wouldn't even break even. If he were able to achieve a perfect season like that for three years running he would still not be caught up to Les Miles' current SEC win %.

A 2-14 start is a hard thing to overcome, if you're looking to become memorable in the league.

Butch's 5-11 isn't awesome, by any means, but it's far easier to overcome with time. There's a multiplier effect of each loss...you not only add one to the losses column, but you subtract one from the wins...so it's like having to overcome two games for each loss. Butch could break even this year with a 7-1 SEC record (not saying he will, but it's not that hard a thing to imagine happening). Bret would have to go 8-0 this year and STILL need to go 6-2 the following season, just to get to 50/50.
 
#130
#130
Volfan2012 said:
Butch hasn't had the talent that some of those coaches have been playing with now he is catching up so we'll find out more about his coaching this season.
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I think your correct and hope it does show Butch can also coach as well as recruit.
 
#136
#136
SGMVols said:
How the Hell is Jones ahead of Mullen?
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Doesn't make sense, especially since Mullen had Miss State ranked number 1 in the country at some point last year while Butch was struggling just to get his team bowl eligible vs Vandy. Butch may very well be a better coach than Mullen, but there's really no evidence to validate a higher ranking at this point.
 
#138
#138
UTVOLKeith said:
Butch has a lot to learn about in game calls...but I got the confidence that he will overcome that hurdle!
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He's doing so much right with this program. Just needs to tighten some things up on Saturdays.....ever increasing talent should make that an easier proposition for him....margin for error should be much wider going forward.
 
#139
#139
Freak said:
Discuss.

1. Nick Saban, Alabama
2. Steve Spurrier, South Carolina
3. Bret Bielema, Arkansas
4. Gary Pinkel, Missouri
5. Les Miles, LSU
6. Gus Malzahn, Auburn
7. Hugh Freeze, Ole Miss
8. Mark Richt, Georgia
9. Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M
10. Butch Jones, Tennessee
11. Dan Mullen, Mississippi State
12. Jim McElwain, Florida
13. Mark Stoops, Kentucky
14. Derek Mason, Vanderbilt

SEC coach rankings: Saban still No. 1 but 2 through 11 remain tight | Sporting News
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Spurrier waits on Butch's table. :zeitung_lesen:
 
#142
#142
UTVOLKeith said:
He is terrible coach. Great people person...I like him.
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Come on Keith....a terrible coach? He's won 80% of his games over the course of 10 years at LSU in the SECw. He's played in 3 national title games and he has a national championship trophy. Derek Dooley is a terrible coach....Derek Mason is a terrible coach....Les Miles is NOT a terrible coach.
 
#144
#144
BigOrangeTrain said:
Ok I will play along. How is he a terrible coach?
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You guys have convinced me. I love the guy he is great for the SEC.

Reminds me of me even...I just remember that time he called a time out on an incomplete pass...you I don't know maybe I should give him a break...
 
#145
#145
KBVol said:
Funny how nobody is arguing Butch should be ranked higher, and rightfully so. Hopefully Butch will earn a much higher preseason ranking for 2016 with the team's performance this year.
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Absolutely. He's not won anything meaningful yet so he shouldn't be ranked higher. Will Butch go down as someone who just restocked the talent, or another poor GameDay coach? Put up or shut up time.
 
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#146
#146
Yankee_Vol said:
Having Pinkel and Bielema above The Mad Hatter is asinine IMO. Guy has won a NC and played for it twice.
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BB and GP do more with less and have over a long period....Miles and Richt do less with more...top flight facilities,top budgets, and top ranked recruiting classes.
Miles & Richt show up on drag race day with top fuel dragsters and GP and Bb have factory stock cars...
 
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#147
#147
VFL-82-JP said:
Buckle up, here come the stats. Someone be sure Bob Mueller is safely out of the path.

Rundowns, Coach by Coach:

Nick Saban -- 4 NCs, 6 conference championships (1 MAC, 5 SEC), AP coach of the year twice, SEC coach of the year three times -- 177-59-1 all time (23-4 last two years); 78-23 all-time in SEC play (14-2 last two years)

Steve Spurrier -- 1 NC, 7 conference championships (1 ACC, 6 SEC), SEC coach of the year seven times -- 226-85-2 all time (18-8 last two years); 131-48 all-time in SEC play (9-7 last two years)

Bret Bielema -- 0 NCs, 3 conference championships (all in B10), never SEC coach of the year (B10 coach of the year once) -- 78-39 all time (10-15 last two years); 2-14 all time in SEC play (2-14 last two years)

Gary Pinkel -- 0 NCs, 1 conference championship (in MAC), SEC coach of the year once -- 186-103-3 all time (23-5 last two years); 16-8 all time in SEC play (14-2 last two years)

Les Miles -- 1 NC, 2 conference championships (both SEC), AP coach of the year once, never SEC coach of the year -- 131-50 all time (18-8 last two years); 56-24 all time in SEC play (9-7 last two years)

Gus Malzahn -- 0 NCs, 2 conference championships (1 Sun Belt, 1 SEC), AP coach of the year once, SEC coach of the year once -- 29-10 all time (20-7 last two years); 11-5 all time in SEC play (11-5 last two years)

Hugh Freeze -- 0 NCs, 1 conference championship (Sun Belt), never SEC coach of the year -- 54-22 all time (17-9 last two years); 11-13 all time in SEC play (8-8 last two years)

Mark Richt -- 0 NCs, 2 conference championships (both SEC), SEC coach of the year twice -- 136-48 all time (18-8 last two years); 78-34 all time in SEC play (11-5 last two years)

Kevin Sumlin -- 0 NCs, 0 conference championships, SEC coach of the year once -- 63-28 all time (17-9 last two years); 13-11 all time in SEC play (7-9 last two years)

Butch Jones -- 0 NCs, 4 conference championships (2 MAC, 2 BigEast), never SEC coach of the year -- 62-40 all time (12-13 last two years); 5-11 all time in SEC play (5-11 last two years)

Dan Mullen -- 0 NCs, 0 conference championships, never SEC coach of the year -- 46-31 all time (17-9 last two years); 22-26 all time in SEC play (9-7 last two years)

Jim McElwain -- 0 NCs, 0 conference championships, never SEC coach of the year -- 22-16 all time (18-8 last two years); 0-0 all time in SEC play

Mark Stoops -- 0 NCs, 0 conference championships, never SEC coach of the year -- 7-17 all time (7-17 last two years); 2-14 all time in SEC play (2-14 last two years)

Derek Mason -- 0 NCs, 0 conference championshisp, never SEC coach of the year -- 3-9 all time; 0-8 all time in SEC play

Ranking of Coaches by Variety of Criteria, and comparison to SportingNews' rank ordering:

NCs:
1. Saban (4)
2(t). Miles and Spurrier (1 each)
4(t). all the rest
[according to this criterion, Miles is underrated by SportingNews]

Conference Championships (any conference):
1. Spurrier (7)
2. Saban (6)
3. Jones (4)
4. Bielema (3)
5(t). Miles, Malzahn, and Richt (2 each)
8(t). Pinkel, Freeze (1 each)
10(t). all the rest
[by this criterion, Jones is underrated, while Pinkel is overrated]

Conference Championships (SEC):
1. Spurrier (6)
2. Saban (5)
3(t). Miles and Richt (2 each)
5. Malzahn (1)
6. all the rest
[following this criterion, Bielema is overrated, and Richt is underrated]

AP National Coach of the Year:
1. Saban (2)
2(t). Miles and Malzahn (1 each)
4. all the rest
[according to this criterion, Miles and Malzahn are underrated by SportingNews]

SEC Coach of the Year:
1. Spurrier (7)
2. Saban (3)
3. Richt (2)
4(5) Pinkel, Malzahn, and Sumlin (1 each)
7(t) all the rest
[by this criterion, Richt and Sumlin are underrated, while Bielema is overrated]

All-Time Record:
1. Nick Saban -- 177-59-1 (75%)
2. Gus Malzahn -- 29-10 (74.4%)
3. Mark Richt -- 136-48 (74%)
4. Steve Spurrier -- 226-85-2 (73%)
5. Les Miles -- 131-50 (72%)
6. Hugh Freeze -- 54-22 (71%)
7. Kevin Sumlin -- 63-28 (69%)
8. Bret Bielema -- 78-39 (67%)
9. Gary Pinkel -- 186-103-3 (64%)
10. Butch Jones -- 62-40 (61%)
11. Dan Mullen -- 46-31 (60%)
12. Jim McElwain -- 22-16 (58%)
13. Mark Stoops -- 7-17 (29%)
14. Derek Mason -- 3-9 (25%)
[following this criterion, Malzahn and Richt are underrated, while Bielema and Pinkel are overrated]

Record Last Two Years:
1. Nick Saban -- 23-4 (85%)
2. Gary Pinkel -- 23-5 (82%)
3. Gus Malzahn -- 20-7 (74%)
4(t). Steve Spurrier, Les Miles, Mark Richt, and Jim McElwain -- all 18-8 (69%)
8(t). Hugh Freeze, Kevin Sumlin, and Dan Mullen -- all 17-9 (65%)
11. Butch Jones -- 12-13 (48%)
12. Bret Bielema -- 10-15 (40%)
13. Mark Stoops -- 7-17 (29%)
14. Derek Mason -- 3-9 (in sole season) (25%)
[according to this criterion, Bielema is overrated, while Malzahn and McElwain are underrated]

All-Time Record in SEC Play:
1. Nick Saban -- 78-23 (77%)
2. Steve Spurrier -- 131-48 (73%)
3. Les Miles -- 56-24 (70%)
4. Mark Richt -- 78-34 (69.6%)
5. Gus Malzahn -- 11-5 (69%)
6. Gary Pinkel -- 16-8 (67%)
7. Kevin Sumlin -- 13-11 (54%)
8(t). Hugh Freeze -- 11-13 and Dan Mullen -- 22-26 (both 45.8%)
10. Butch Jones -- 5-11 (31%)
11(t). Bret Bielema and Mark Stoops -- both 2-14 (13%)
13. Derek Mason -- 0-8 (0%)
xx. Jim McElwain -- unranked; never coached in SEC
[by this criterion, Richt is underrated, while Bielema is overrated]

Record Last Two Years in SEC Play:
1(t). Nick Saban and Gary Pinkel -- both 14-2
3(t). Gus Malzahn and Mark Richt -- both 11-5
5(t). Steve Spurrier, Les Miles and Dan Mullen -- all 9-7
8. Hugh Freeze -- 8-8
9. Kevin Sumlin -- 7-9
10. Butch Jones -- 5-11
11(t). Bret Bielema and Mark Stoops -- both 2-14
13. Derek Mason -- 0-8 (in sole season)
xx. Jim McElwain -- unranked; never coached in SEC
[following this criterion, Richt and Mullen are underrated, while Spurrier and Bielema are overrated]


BOTTOM LINE: Richt is underrated according to five different criteria, while Bielema is overrated by six. Those two guys should, more or less, flip places: Richt to somewhere around 3-5, and Bielema down to around 7-9. After them, the two next biggest mismatches are Malzahn (a bit underrated) and Pinkel (a bit overrated). SportingNews got the other 10 coaches about right, using this battery of criteria.
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I think part of the criteria is what resources each coach has to work with...budget,talent,facilities,tradition etc. on Paul F. the author mentioned that.
 
#148
#148
BearCat204 said:
You are absolutely off your rocker again. Please, tell the class what makes Les Miles a mediocre coach, especially since we all know you are the expert on all.
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I think he is a average coach because he has top 5 talent every year...top facilities...top tier budget. He wants for nothing, within a 250 mile radius of campus there is talent galore!!!

But with all those advantages he still under performs to his resources and roster talent.

And while he recruits well it's a lot easier to recruit in areas flush with D-1 talent than to have to recruit all over a region in the back yard of other established programs.
 
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#149
#149
KBVol said:
Seriously. "Mediocre" coaches don't win 80% of their games over 10 years in the best conference in America. Not to mention play for and win a national title.
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You can if your talent is several tiers above the teams you play.....an avg. Texas Hold'em player with triple the bank roll can often out last smaller resourced players..
 
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