South Regional: A Retrospective on Luck and Variance

#29
#29
Dude - he was selected all SEC and your acting like he can’t play?
We are not talking regular season accolades and yea he can definitely play I’m not disputing that I just think he needs to get better, he hasn’t shown up in the clutch two years in a row during tournament time and that is troublesome
 
#30
#30
We are not talking regular season accolades and yea he can definitely play I’m not disputing that I just think he needs to get better, he hasn’t shown up in the clutch two years in a row during tournament time and that is troublesome
Everyone on our team “needs to get better”. Why single out Vescovi? He’s clearly improved his offense and especially his D since he’s been here. How bout JJJ or ZZZ missing their wide open shots late against Michigan? Guess they need to learn to be clutch come tourney time also?
 
#31
#31
Everyone on our team “needs to get better”. Why single out Vescovi? He’s clearly improved his offense and especially his D since he’s been here. How bout JJJ or ZZZ missing their wide open shots late against Michigan? Guess they need to learn to be clutch come tourney time also?
They do but ZZ is a freshman JJJ is mostly known for defense let’s not act like Vescovi wasn’t a big reason why we lost to Michigan and it’s not as simple as “we should have got him more looks.”That is just a lazy take…
 
#32
#32
We shot 11% from behind thr arc. We only needed to shoot 25% from that range to win and didn't get it done. Vescovi, JJJ and ZZ all had open looks they missed at critical times. Regardless of the bracket, you are not going to win many games shooting 11% from 3.
 
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#33
#33
Sorry if you are a good player you don’t allow the defense to deny you the ball, again he needs to work on his dribble and get better at developing his own drive to the basket outside of teammates helping him get open. This is two years in a row where he has failed in the last game of the year because he couldn’t create his own shot or make the ones he got
Sorry he let you down. Please fill out the “I don’t understand this sport” refund application, and we’ll send you a Michael Jordan action figure and a coupon for a Happy Meal.
 
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#34
#34
The difference in the final four and not for UT is we didnt have a 4 or 5 that could consistently go in the paint and get a huge bucket. And until we get that it doesnt matter how good our guards are. You need a whole team. No one on the team could handle the Michigan big man. I remember watching the Michigan Arizona game in Vegas and thinking Michigan is either over rated or having a bad night but i hope we dont see them come tourny time. I was right.

This exactly. We missed ON against Michigan - he would have knocked down that 12-15 ft jump shot and made a difference in the game.
 
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#35
#35
I love the NCAA tournament just like everyone else here, but it's an entertainment product, not a realistic way to choose a national champion. A team's likelihood to advance is almost certainly related to the "luck of the draw", and this is so much more true in a high-variance one-and-done type tournament than it is in a best-of-7 type tournament like the NBA does. The best example of this was 1-seed Virginia losing in the 1st round in 2018 and an almost identical 1-seed Virginia winning the entire tournament the next year. Virginia's entire season was deemed a failure in 2018, but a huge success in 2019, even though they had similar results outside of the tournament.

It's clear in hindsight, we drew the most difficult region. Here's a look at the Sagarin ratings of the teams in our region:

3. Houston (5-seed)
4. Arizona (1-seed)
7. Tennessee (3-seed)
8. Villanova (2-seed)

15. Illinois (4-seed)
20. Michigan (11-seed)
22. Ohio State (7-seed)
36. Seton Hall (8-seed)

So our regional had 4 of the top 8 teams in the country according to Sagarin. Houston was severely under-seeded; Sagarin says they should've been a 1, but probably should've been a 2 in reality. Michigan was very underseeded as an 11. They now look like a 5. Albeit, this includes their tourney play, but even before then, they were 22, which would be a 6 seed. Ohio State looks more like a 6 than a 7, as well. The only over-seeded team in the bracket was Colorado State which Sagarin says should've been a 9. Probably also worth noting on a sheer talent basis, Michigan would be a top 10 team in the country.

Contrast with Kansas, which had a relative cake-walk to the Final Four. They drew the weakest 4 seed as a Sweet 16 opponent: Providence. Sagarin says Providence should've been a 7 or 8 seed. They get Miami in the Elite 8. Miami was #52 according to Sagarin, or essentially like a 13 seed. In this case, Sagarin is probably underrating them (and their recent rating was #20, which would be more like a 5/6), but suffice it to say, this was one of the easier draws. You'd much rather play Miami than Villanova, Houston, Duke, Arkansas, or UNC.

Baylor got unlucky, too, drawing a UNC team that was severely underseeded. UNC should've been more like a 5/6 even ignoring what they've done in the tournament. The same Baylor team that won a national title last year, goes out in the 2nd Round with a bad draw.

My point isn't to excuse our loss. You have to win difficult games to advance at some point and we didn't. Merely to say that we tend to judge coaches by their NCAA tournament results, when in actuality, there's a huge luck element in that tournament. This was a very successful season where we had a bad shooting night against a team with top 10 talent that was severely under-seeded. Even if we had beaten MIchigan, our entire region was brutal, and we would've had the most difficult path to the Final Four of any team.

Barnes has done an incredible job here. I do wish we'd have some luck in the NCAA tournament at some point. If we had played in the Midwest Regional in Auburn's spot, we probably would've gone to the Elite 8. I think we lose to Kansas there (who's playing better than anyone in the country right now), but the season looks much more successful just based on random chance. And while I love the NCAA tournament, I do hate this aspect of this.

In any case, I'm excited about the national title with my other team, UNC. Grew up in East Tennessee, went to UNC.

“it's an entertainment product, not a realistic way to choose a national champion.”

I’ve been saying this for years. It’s the dumbest way to choose a national champion in sports.
 
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#36
#36
Sorry he let you down. Please fill out the “I don’t understand this sport” refund application, and we’ll send you a Michael Jordan action figure and a coupon for a Happy Meal.
I mean im happy you guys accept what was it 6 points from vescovi against Michigan? You guys are probably also the same ppl ragging on KC all year for missed free throws
 
#37
#37
I mean im happy you guys accept what was it 6 points from vescovi against Michigan? You guys are probably also the same ppl ragging on KC all year for missed free throws
So since we support a player who had an off scoring night then we must also be overly critical of a player who’s struggling with free throws? Your logic is difficult to understand.
 
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#38
#38
So since we support a player who had an off scoring night then we must also be overly critical of a player who’s struggling with free throws? Your logic is difficult to understand.
The logic is pretty sound when im responding to a guy essentially blaming the coaching staff for not getting Vescovi enough looks when he himself couldn’t get himself free to the ball…off night or not tournament time is not the time to have those and this is two years in a row he has done this while the freshman play better than an upperclassman
 
#39
#39
I mean im happy you guys accept what was it 6 points from vescovi against Michigan? You guys are probably also the same ppl ragging on KC all year for missed free throws
After KY 1, every team ran Santi off the line. He’s a great back cut runner, and a great catch and shoot guy. If a team frees a tall guard to intercept the cut, the counter is not for him to “get open”. The counter is for another motion player to score. We beat great teams with great big men. We didn’t do it with a “dominant big man” or “Santi get open more”. We did it with movement and a reasonable shooting percentage spread out among a balanced team. If we shot 25% from 3, or Brooks missed any shot in the second half, we beat Michigan. We aren’t signing Tim Duncan or MJ next year. We are a good system team. I like the future of our middle guys, and our guards. We are what we are though. We won’t fix it by Santi “getting open more”.
 
#40
#40
After KY 1, every team ran Santi off the line. He’s a great back cut runner, and a great catch and shoot guy. If a team frees a tall guard to intercept the cut, the counter is not for him to “get open”. The counter is for another motion player to score. We beat great teams with great big men. We didn’t do it with a “dominant big man” or “Santi get open more”. We did it with movement and a reasonable shooting percentage spread out among a balanced team. If we shot 25% from 3, or Brooks missed any shot in the second half, we beat Michigan. We aren’t signing Tim Duncan or MJ next year. We are a good system team. I like the future of our middle guys, and our guards. We are what we are though. We won’t fix it by Santi “getting open more”.
I agree to that…but we also can’t afford him to have off nights when it matters most going forward. Guys are going to have to step up in the front court next year to find another scoring option outside of guard play
 
#41
#41
I mean im happy you guys accept what was it 6 points from vescovi against Michigan? You guys are probably also the same ppl ragging on KC all year for missed free throws
So a player should never have an off night? He had a tough game, but every great player in the history of the game has had off nights. Your argument is truly laughable….actually hysterical.
 
#42
#42
So a player should never have an off night? He had a tough game, but every great player in the history of the game has had off nights. Your argument is truly laughable….actually hysterical.
My argument is in response to poster stating we should have given Santi more looks in the Michigan game…context is everything in a argument
 

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