Some Post-Game Perspective...

#1
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nycvol010

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#1
Im seeing a lot of silly stuff being said about Lane Kiffin tonight from the Tennessee faithful. I think people may need a little bit of perspective.

Pete Carroll First year at USC: 6-6, started 1-4 (5-7 year before)

Frank Beamer First Year at Va Tech. : 2-9 (10-1 previous year)

Jim Tressell first year at OSU: 7-5 (8-4 year before)

Bob Stoops First year at Oklahoma: 7-5

Randy Shannon First year at Miami : 5-7 (7-6 previous year)

Mike Gundy First Year at OK. State (4-7)

Nick Saban first years combined at Mich state, Alabama and LSU at Mich St.: 21-15-1

Does this mean that Kiffin will be successful? No. There is also a very large list of guys who started bad, were bad in the middle, and finished bad. Who knows if Lane Kiffin will be successful at Tennessee...but that is exactly the point! Who knows if Lane Kiffin will be successful at Tennessee! Some people are not even giving him 5 games before declaring the jury's verdict. you cannot hire a 33 year-old with limited HC experience, and give him 5 games. I know everybody is a little bit liquored up, and a lot a bit upset. That is fair. New HC Gene Chizik just walked into Neyland with a team that was almost equally as bad as us last year, and won his fifth game. But i find some of the responses i have heard absolutely imbecilic. Like I said, i have no clue whether or not Lane Kiffin will be successful. But I think it would be very smart of Tennessee fans not to end him before he has the chance to be. The only thing that will really make a difference in Lane Kiffin's long term success this year, is whether the fans stand behind him or not. That does not mean support his every decision, but calling out the head coach 5 games into his career, is straight up dumb. I will bet that USC is happy they didnt do it with Carroll, and Va Tech is happy they didnt do it with Beamer, and tonight i will bet that Miami is happy they didnt fire Randy Shannon. I know it is only a minority that is turning on Lane, but i would quell that minority immediately if were able to, or else this program has no chance of growing. You have to grow the program no matter who is going to be the coach in 5 years. when you look back at certain programs historically, this is really the time where it is imperative that fans get behind their team. Certain Tennessee fans appear to be headed down a very slippery slope, that will stunt our growth.

Speaking of growth, Kiffin's decision not to bench Crompton is not stubborn, it's smart imo. What are you going to do? Just throw Stephens right in there, and expect him to turn the season around? If you think that Tennessee's offense right now is comparable to last years...then think about what happened last year. If Kiffin were to go to Nick and then go back to Jon like was done last year, it would be an absolute disaster. Stick with one guy, and hope that he gets better throughout the season, which would appear to be possible. Otherwise you will have two QB's alternating, neither of them getting better. Think about it this way, lets say that Stephens is equal to Crompton, as he was basically last year. In this case, you waste the next 5 games getting Stephens as comfortable as Crompton is right now. As long as Crompton has not given up on himself, then he is worth keeping out there. You switch to Stephens, then you are back to square one in every facet. Crompton, while bad, at least appears to be improving every so slightly. Just my opinion...
 
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#3
#3
Well said. I'm optimistic about our future, and the way this year is turning out is not at all surprising to me.
 
#6
#6
Great post NYC you just made me happy again after I was being heartbroken.
 
#9
#9
jjay2518 said:
Well said. I'm optimistic about our future, and the way this year is turning out is not at all surprising to me.
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It almost seems to me like some people are more concerned with being right themselves, than rooting for their team. People are able to make themselves correct by creating negative energy. Very few coaches are able to coach through a storm created by their own fans. Its like if somebody made a bet, then beat the opposing teams quarterback with a bat so he could not play, and then came back to his friends and bragged to everybody about how smart his bet was. People have to realize we are 1/3 through Lane's first season. That is crazy early to be quitting...
 
#11
#11
Great post, and I agree with you on everything you said, except the QB play. I can only see upside by giving Stephens a chance.
 
#12
#12
NYC this is a great post! You must have "worked like heck" on it. I kid, I kid.

I couldn't agree more, and really hope the entire fan base isn't as crazy as these boards can be sometimes. You have to give the new coach, OUR coach, time. He had a great recruiting class last year on very limited time. This year's [hopefuly] should turn out into another top 10. CLK seems like a young and passionate coach who has a plan for succes, and one AWESOME coaching staff to help him complete this process. It won't be easy, but will be worth it. Stay faithful VOL NATION. The future is bright on The Hill.
 
#13
#13
I like it. But, again, I'm not at my full sensibilities at the present moment. That'll have to wait until tomorrow.
 
#14
#14
NYC, I respect you as a poster. But answer these questions for me.

A) Just because many coaches typically do not have successful first seasons does that then give the coaching staff an excuse not to try to do something to increase our productivity on offense?

B) If it does not, how does the continuing refusal of the staff to do anything different than what we have done for the first four games on offense make any sense?

I do not hate Kiffin. I do not want him fired. I don't know or even think that Stevens is better than Crompton. I simply want the coaching staff to acknowledge his deficiencies and stop calling the game like he is a competent SEC quarterback.

We never get a receiver 1 on 1 and take a shot deep. We have used the wildcat ONE time all year and it was hugely successful and then abandoned. We consistently throw the ball on second and long which inevitably leads to third and long.

This is not me calling for the coaches head, or making an unreasonable request. This is me essentially begging the coaching staff to do something to make this year different from last year. And so far they seem unwilling to do so.
 
#15
#15
First using Randy Shannon & Mike Gundy as examples of success is silly. Neither had won anything. If you think UT football should aspire to have similar success as Randy Shannon & Mike Gundy, you're probably rooting for the wrong team.

Most of the coaches had proven themselves already as head coaches:

Peach Carroll coached NE to a AFC East Championship before coming to USC.

Jim Tressel had coached Youngstown State to an amazing four I-AA Championships before coming to OSU.

Frank Beamer had coached Murray State to 9-2 before coming to VT.

Nick Saban had coached Teledo to a 9-2 record, MSU to a 9-2, LSU to 13-1 (plus 2 SECC & 1 MNC) before coming to Alabama.

Bob Stoops is the only successful coach in your list that didn't have head coaching experience (although he was coming off a MNC as DC of UF).

And, your list is very selective. Look at the other recent MNC winning coaches:

Urban Meyer went 9-3 at Bowling Green and 12-0 at Utah before his first year at UF (9-3)

Les Miles went 9-4 at OSU before his first year at LSU (11-2)

Mack Brown went 10-1 at UNC before his first year at Texas (9-3)

Keep drinking the Kiffin Koolaid if you'd like, but right now the product he's coaching doesn't look so good (just like his performance at the Raiders). Kiffin's head coaching record now stand at an amazingly poor 7-18.
 
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#16
#16
Titanic said:
NYC, I respect you as a poster. But answer these questions for me.

A) Just because many coaches typically do not have successful first seasons does that then give the coaching staff an excuse not to try to do something to increase our productivity on offense?

B) If it does not, how does the continuing refusal of the staff to do anything different than what we have done for the first four games on offense make any sense?

No...because the coaches are at practice every day, and have years of experience, it gives them the excuse to not try stuff that they think is risky and will likely only make our offense worse. Because they are our coaches, it gives them the excuse, and incentive, not to give into what our fans want just for the sake of it.
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#18
#18
Johnny Reckless said:
First using Randy Shannon & Mike Gundy as examples of success is silly. Neither had won anything. If you think UT football should aspire to have similar success as Randy Shannon & Mike Gundy, you're probably rooting for the wrong team.

Most of the coaches had proven themselves already as head coaches:

Peach Carroll coached NE to a AFC East Championship before coming to USC.

Jim Tressel had coached Youngstown State to an amazing four I-AA Championships before coming to OSU.

Frank Beamer had coached Murray State to 9-2 before coming to VT.

Nick Saban had coached Teledo to a 9-2 record, MSU to a 9-2, LSU to 13-1 (plus 2 SECC & 1 MNC) before coming to Alabama.

Bob Stoops is the only successful coach in your list that didn't have head coaching experience (although he was coming off a MNC as DC of UF).

And, your list is very selective. Look at the other recent MNC winning coaches:

Urban Meyer went 9-3 at Bowling Green and 12-0 at Utah before his first year at UF (9-3)

Les Miles went 9-4 at OSU before his first year at LSU (11-2)

Mack Brown went 10-1 at UNC before his first year at Texas (9-3)

Keep drinking the Kiffin Koolaid if you'd like, but right now the product he's coaching doesn't look so good (just like his performance at the Raiders).
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What are you trying to argue here? He wasn't saying that starting slow means that Kiffin will definitely be successful. It just shows that there is little correlation between a coach's first year record and their ultimate success. I don't see how previous records carry much weight here.
 
#19
#19
nycvol010 said:
Titanic said:
No...because the coaches are at practice every day, and have years of experience, it gives them the excuse to not try stuff that they think is risky and will likely only make our offense worse. Because they are our coaches, it gives them the excuse, and incentive, not to give into what our fans want just for the sake of it.
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A) How could our offense possibly be worse? We held them to 1-6 on third down and had the ball for 9 minutes of the first 28. And we got the ball first.

B) What is risky about a direct snap to a running back or receiver? What makes it more risky than allowing JC to throw the ball? Why would running the wildcat 5-10% of our offensive snaps be any riskier than what we are doing now?
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#20
#20
jjay2518 said:
What are you trying to argue here? He wasn't saying that starting slow means that Kiffin will definitely be successful. It just shows that there is little correlation between a coach's first year record and their ultimate success. I don't see how previous records carry much weight here.
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The point is that nearly all the successful coaches that OP named (with the exception of Stoops) had been very successful as Head Coaches prior to them landing at their current gig.

While the OP may be correct that the first-year record doesn't correlate with ultimate success, I am arguing that prior success as a Head Coach definitely DOES correlate with ultimate success.

Every single MNC winner since the BCS started (except for Stoops) had Head Coaching success prior to their championship. Unfortunately, Lane has never had success and just brought his lifetime record to a paltry 7-18.
 
#21
#21
Johnny Reckless said:
The point is that nearly all the successful coaches that OP named (with the exception of Stoops) had been very successful as Head Coaches prior to them landing at their current gig.

While the OP may be correct that the first-year record doesn't correlate with ultimate success, I am arguing that prior success as a Head Coach definitely DOES correlate with ultimate success.

Every single MNC winner since the BCS started (except for Stoops) had Head Coaching success prior to their championship. Unfortunately, Lane has never had success and just brought his lifetime record to a paltry 7-18.
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And? You didn't dispute his point even a little. He simply provided examples to show that even great coaches can struggle their first year at the helm of a program.
 
#22
#22
kptvol said:
And? You didn't dispute his point even a little. He simply provided examples to show that even great coaches can struggle their first year at the helm of a program.
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This....all those stats provide nothing to the argument.
 
#23
#23
kptvol said:
And? You didn't dispute his point even a little. He simply provided examples to show that even great coaches can struggle their first year at the helm of a program.
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Well, I think I did a pretty good job of disputing it.

But, needless to say, you want more. How's this: The last three BCS Championship Coaches, Brown, Miles, and Meyer went 9-3, 11-2, and 9-3 respectively in their first years at their current schools. Oh, and in case you were wondering, those three very successful coaches happen to have their teams ranked #2, #4, and #1 respectively right now.

Keep drinking that Kiffin Koolaid. In the mean time, we'll just ignore the enormous elephant in the room (Kiffin's lifetime 7-18 record).
 
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