Some Perspective on "Rebuilds"

#29
#29
I’ve been patient for the last decade. I’m 25 years old and I fear I’ll never see a good Tennessee team in my lifetime.
 
#30
#30
Yes. It might take more time than we would like or more than some can muster. This is the modern day SEC. CJP knows talent and can recruit the right talent, imo, infinitely better than CBJ. Judging him playing Butch's talent isn't a good sample to base judgement on imo.
 
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#31
#31
GoBigOrangeVols said:
In 1999, Lou Holtz took over a South Carolina program that was in shambles. They went 1-10 in 1998, and in his first year on the job in 1999 they went 0-11, only scoring more than 14 points once the entire season. Guess what happened in 2000 (year 2)? they went 8-4, 5-3 in the SEC and had wins over a ranked Georgia team and then over a ranked Ohio State team in their bowl game.

Also in 1999, Kirk Ferentz took over an Iowa program that had fallen on hard times. He inherited a 3-8 team, and went just 1-10 in his first season. The second season they 'improved' to 3-9. By year 3, they were 7-5 and won the Alamo bowl. Year 4 they won the BIG TEN going 11-1 in the regular season before losing the Orange Bowl. His only HC experience prior to Iowa was in the early '90's at Maine.

We all know Nick Saban went 6-6 his first year at Alabama, with a bad loss at home to Louisiana-Monroe. Did you also know through his first four years at Michigan State he was a combined 25-22-1? In Year 5 (his final year before taking the LSU gig), they went 9-2.

The point is that rebuilds take time. Usually they take a lot of time. There are going to be many 'downs' and few 'ups.'

The entire culture of the program is slowly going to change under Coach Pruitt. It's going to take a lot of time. Come along for the ride.
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Our rebuild has taken 11 years and 4 "do-overs"
 
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#32
#32
Another thing to keep in mind is that there have been extended periods of time where Tennessee football has not been very good. Longer than you would realize. Check out 1973-1983. Or the early 1960s.

What makes the current state of affairs so alarming is that we went winless in conference play last year for the first time ever, and based on how the team looks so far this year we might go winless again. It could be 0-16 in conference play over a span of 2 years, or something like 2-14 at best. 0-8 in conference play this year would be 17 conference losses in a row. I cannot believe I just typed that previous sentence as anything other than a joke.
 
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#36
#36
volfannbama said:
Did he have HC experience prior to mich st?
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You can read, can't you?

If your point is "it isn't an apples to apples comparison between Nick Saban and Pruitt because Saban coached one year at Toledo five years prior to coaching at MSU, or it isn't apples to apples between Kirk Ferentz and Pruitt because Ferentz coached at Maine 7 years prior to Iowa" then just say that. That's fine if you think that experience by those two coaches better qualified them to rebuild MSU and Iowa respectively than the experience Pruitt has had as a 2x NC winning DC. I just disagree with you.
 
#37
#37
GoBigOrangeVols said:
In 1999, Lou Holtz took over a South Carolina program that was in shambles. They went 1-10 in 1998, and in his first year on the job in 1999 they went 0-11, only scoring more than 14 points once the entire season. Guess what happened in 2000 (year 2)? they went 8-4, 5-3 in the SEC and had wins over a ranked Georgia team and then over a ranked Ohio State team in their bowl game.

Also in 1999, Kirk Ferentz took over an Iowa program that had fallen on hard times. He inherited a 3-8 team, and went just 1-10 in his first season. The second season they 'improved' to 3-9. By year 3, they were 7-5 and won the Alamo bowl. Year 4 they won the BIG TEN going 11-1 in the regular season before losing the Orange Bowl. His only HC experience prior to Iowa was in the early '90's at Maine.

We all know Nick Saban went 6-6 his first year at Alabama, with a bad loss at home to Louisiana-Monroe. Did you also know through his first four years at Michigan State he was a combined 25-22-1? In Year 5 (his final year before taking the LSU gig), they went 9-2.

The point is that rebuilds take time. Usually they take a lot of time. There are going to be many 'downs' and few 'ups.'

The entire culture of the program is slowly going to change under Coach Pruitt. It's going to take a lot of time. Come along for the ride.
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PLEASE PLEASE Donot confuse Facts with Issues for the posters on here. It is much easier to moan and threaten staying home!!

11228100_10153342242008464_3898943728249983518_n.jpg
 
#38
#38
Lou Holtz faced the same issue that Pruitt is facing: Completely demoralized players with a losing attitude.

In 1998, Brad Scott let the wheels fall off the Gamecock bus. Do you realize how many future NFL players were on that 98 team? Do you realize that every db on that 98 team that Tee Martin set a record against played in the NFL? That a dE on that team will probably be in the Hall of Fame? That the QB and OT a tight end and RB on that team had nfl careers?

Yet that team sucked because of crap in the locker room. There were players who refused to go in the game. (Familiar?) there were players fighting each other. Players who wouldn't speak to the coaches. That 98 team was POISON.

That's where you guys went last year. It takes a long time to draw out poison. Took Lou Holtz a year. Rarely does that happen but the Vols aren't quite as poisoned as the 98-99 Gamecocks who lost 21 straight including losses to G-5s and even an FCS!

Sure, it sucks. I know from experience, but hang in there. It WILL get better - but I don't know if it will ever be good enough to satisfy your fans. No insult intended. Given our history, we are a lot easier to please.

Enjoy the improvement of individual underclassmen who aren't quite as poisoned as your seniors. Let Pruitt know you don't care if he removes poisonous players even if their replacements have less talent.

QUIT BOOING! It's the first friggin year.
 
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#39
#39
GoBigOrangeVols said:
You can read, can't you?

If your point is "it isn't an apples to apples comparison between Nick Saban and Pruitt because Saban coached one year at Toledo five years prior to coaching at MSU, or it isn't apples to apples between Kirk Ferentz and Pruitt because Ferentz coached at Maine 7 years prior to Iowa" then just say that. That's fine if you think that experience by those two coaches better qualified them to rebuild MSU and Iowa respectively than the experience Pruitt has had as a 2x NC winning DC. I just disagree with you.
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The head coaching expereince matters, andnits quite evident for anyone that has seen Tennessee play this season. What pruitt.Did as awell dc is irrelevent,.because he isnt a dc anymore. So you used 3 coaches to prove your point, all of which had hc expereince.

Tennessee looks like an unorganized mess right now. No direction no identity and that my friend is a reflect of the hc with no hc experience. Post all the threads you want so you cant take some high ground, it doesnt change facts. This is the 1980s coached know they done get 8-10 years to prove themselves. Reasonable people like you and I will reserve judgement for at least 3 years.I dont blame CJP one bit for taking the job, but shame on our adminstration for turning ut into a joke program that cant lure in a top teir coach with proven experience.
 
#40
#40
most first time head coaches go thru growing pains. most do. it's the excepiton that they don't.

Kirby wasn't great on the sidelines in his first year, but he's definitely gotten better.

we'll see how it goes from here with Pruitt. this season is going to be a long one for a lot of reasons.

we'll know a lot more about his own development, about what he learns from this year, when we get in to the next couple years.
 
#41
#41
orangepridenation said:
Yeah, it's going to take time, but people around TN are paradoxically tired of being patient.
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Here is a little perspective, Dooley came on to rebuild Tennessee. In 2012, he was supposed to have a huge year with Bray, Hunter & Patterson but we went 5 -7. So hos quest to rebuild didn't work and he was fired
On comes Butch. He goes 5- 7, 7- 5, 9-4, 9-4 and 4 -8 and gets fired
2016 was the year that Butch was supposed to get is to the SECCG. We beat Florida but lost to A & M, USC, Vandy and that put Butch in danger in 2017 he was fired
Every example of coaches rebuilding programs don't work out.
We can compare Pruitt to Holtz or we can also compare him to Dooley
 
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#44
#44
sgacock said:
Lou Holtz faced the same issue that Pruitt is facing: Completely demoralized players with a losing attitude.

In 1998, Brad Scott let the wheels fall off the Gamecock bus. Do you realize how many future NFL players were on that 98 team? Do you realize that every db on that 98 team that Tee Martin set a record against played in the NFL? That a dE on that team will probably be in the Hall of Fame? That the QB and OT a tight end and RB on that team had nfl careers?

Yet that team sucked because of crap in the locker room. There were players who refused to go in the game. (Familiar?) there were players fighting each other. Players who wouldn't speak to the coaches. That 98 team was POISON.

That's where you guys went last year. It takes a long time to draw out poison. Took Lou Holtz a year. Rarely does that happen but the Vols aren't quite as poisoned as the 98-99 Gamecocks who lost 21 straight including losses to G-5s and even an FCS!

Sure, it sucks. I know from experience, but hang in there. It WILL get better - but I don't know if it will ever be good enough to satisfy your fans. No insult intended. Given our history, we are a lot easier to please.

Enjoy the improvement of individual underclassmen who aren't quite as poisoned as your seniors. Let Pruitt know you don't care if he removes poisonous players even if their replacements have less talent.

QUIT BOOING! It's the first friggin year.
Click to expand...

BOOOOOO! 😀 JK.
 
#46
#46
GoBigOrangeVols said:
In 1999, Lou Holtz took over a South Carolina program that was in shambles. They went 1-10 in 1998, and in his first year on the job in 1999 they went 0-11, only scoring more than 14 points once the entire season. Guess what happened in 2000 (year 2)? they went 8-4, 5-3 in the SEC and had wins over a ranked Georgia team and then over a ranked Ohio State team in their bowl game.

Also in 1999, Kirk Ferentz took over an Iowa program that had fallen on hard times. He inherited a 3-8 team, and went just 1-10 in his first season. The second season they 'improved' to 3-9. By year 3, they were 7-5 and won the Alamo bowl. Year 4 they won the BIG TEN going 11-1 in the regular season before losing the Orange Bowl. His only HC experience prior to Iowa was in the early '90's at Maine.

We all know Nick Saban went 6-6 his first year at Alabama, with a bad loss at home to Louisiana-Monroe. Did you also know through his first four years at Michigan State he was a combined 25-22-1? In Year 5 (his final year before taking the LSU gig), they went 9-2.

The point is that rebuilds take time. Usually they take a lot of time. There are going to be many 'downs' and few 'ups.'

The entire culture of the program is slowly going to change under Coach Pruitt. It's going to take a lot of time. Come along for the ride.
Click to expand...


We've been rebuilding about as long as I can remember:)


1538493144808.gif
 
#47
#47
BowlBrother85 said:
With any successful rebuild, there is progress made by season 3. Even in failed rebuilds, there is sometimes progress made by season 3 (see Butch Jones in 2015 - we had improved). We need to be patient but that should not extend beyond 2020. You know what you have by season 3 - good or bad.
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Maybe, but not always. When he went to Duke Cutliffe was 5-7 year one, 4-8 year two, 3-9 year three, 3-9 year four. Finally, in year 5 he broke through and took Duke to the Belk Bowl. Then, in year 6 they won 10 games and won the ACC Coastal. He’s done well since, coaching Duke to bowl games 5 of the last 6 years. Good thing they didn’t send Cut packing after that 3-9 third year (or even after the 3-9 fourth year). I guess a lot of it depends on how bad the situation is when you start to rebuild.
 
#48
#48
Since 1992 (First SEC Championship Game), every head coach that has won the SEC has done it within his first 3 seasons. With the exception of Tuberville and Fulmer. If Pruitt is going to be the coach to take us back from the abyss, we will know soon.
 
#49
#49
It mostly depends on where you want your top end to be.

If Duke were looking for a coach that could take them to multiple ACC and national titles, they'd probably have fired Coach Cut years ago. Don't get me wrong: I respect Cut greatly, and I'm not sure anyone could achieve those goals at Duke. Nonetheless, your expectations drive your actions. Duke's football expectations are quite a bit lower than that, so Cut suits them really well.

We keep resetting our rebuild (and yes, you start over each time, don't get to count the other rebuild years...we haven't been rebuilding since 2008...we've been rebuilding since last November) because our goal is nothing less than competing for SEC and national titles. As soon as we're convinced a coach isn't built right for those goals, we ditch him and start again. *shrug* that's not awesome, but it's not terrible, either. It's just part of the high expectations of our program.

Problem is, some fans get "convinced about a coach" way faster than others. We already have folks on this board who are convinced our OC must go. After nine months and five football games. We also have folks who've already said they'll "give Pruitt to the end of the season" to convince them.

Those who are a little more sane know that you usually can't reach valid conclusions in that time period.

Others say you always know by the end of the second season, that all great coaches are winning big (two-digit win columns, division and conference titles) by then. There are numerous counter-examples that prove that wrong (Saban at Mich St, Swinney at Clemson, etc.), but folks continue to believe it anyway.

Anyway, our top end is high. All the way to the roof, in fact. So it's going to be harder for us to find the right guy. As long as we don't subscribe to the mistaken beliefs that we'll know after one season, or even two, we'll eventually find our man. Who knows, we may already have. Let's just see where he takes us.

Go Vols!
 
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#50
#50
ru4real-really? said:
fans had to wait 46 years between championships last time. (I don't count the two loss 1967 season's championship)

I'm afraid there are a lot of us who won't be around for the next!
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I don't even care about the national championship. It's just a popularity contest anyway. I'd be thrilled with an SEC championship. Heck, at this point I'd be thrilled with winning the East
 
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