Socialism Fails Everytime ...

#426
#426
USMC-TNVOL said:
There’s plenty wrong with education in the United States. Our scores are way lower than many countries in the world and underfunded; take a look at WV last year with the teachers pay strike.

Privatized prisons have no reason to keep prison populations down as they make less money. The war on drugs is a money maker for police and a drug like marijuana is much less harmful than alcohol. It was only illegal once they came out with stupid propaganda like reefer madness.

Leave rights should have a mandatory minimum especially for women that give birth. Many countries have a minimum of paid leave, especially for maternity leave. Additionally, there’s no federal law requiring paid sick leave. That’s absolutely stupid. It requires people to use their vacation if they even have any.
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We spend more per pupil than any other country in the world, our schools are not underfunded, they are just poorly run.

Jarheads!
 
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#427
#427
USMC-TNVOL said:
Again, you point to Cuba as "real" socialism. That's a communist government with a dictatorship. The European countries I am talking about are democratic socialist countries. As for Greece, yes, I'm sure that was caused purely from social programs. You try to oversimplify an economic problem to fit your narrative.

What about the Marshall Plan? Of course it was designed to rebuild war-torn Europe. What were they going to do? Slap a debt on Germany like Post-WW1 and cause more economic problems again? We may complete against some of those countries but most of our manufacturing competition stems from China not Europe.

For pharmaceutical costs, they are completely padded and overpriced to make insane profits. That same industry has one of the highest spending amounts in lobbying and here you are defending them, but let's not talk about how companies can lobby for laws that benefit them or about how companies like Amazon can make $11 billion in profit and not pay federal or state taxes because that would be unAmerican. So keep trying to defend the companies that overprice drugs to heal people, they love it, and it keeps the politicians in their pockets.

If we did the actual math of closing tax loopholes of huge corporations that do not pay taxes, have the power to control price gouging on medical necessities, and take the stupid amount we pay in healthcare plans a month, we could probably create a national system powerful enough to drive down costs for our healthcare.
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tumscalcium said:
What are the demographics of the specific European countries you admire vs the demographics of the countries you don’t?
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#428
#428
NurseGoodVol said:
There are those who Won't touch on the topic of the VA, because that argument is a dead end. They can't justify gov involvement on a bigger scale, universal healthcare, because gov has failed hugely on a smaller scale, the VA.
There is no justification for failing our veterans.
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Absolutely none, zero, zilch. Trump should run on this in 2020 as part of his platform. Fix the VA and make it a model for the world.
 
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#430
#430
tennvols77 said:
Simply put, they are the only government organization that could autonomously overthrow that which supposedly runs it, and they could by themselves take over control, and do so nation wide void of the government's wishes or ability to try and stop them.

No order or piece of paper from any politician or even the POTUS could stop it if the military brass decided it needed to be done and soldiers stayed soldiers taking their orders down the line. If/when successful, they would continue on as the government as they saw fit.

It's unlike any other government entity. No pencil pushing SS or Medicaid office, let alone the entirety of any department nationwide, could do anything close to what the military can do. The military could by it's own leadership and structure do as it wishes if it wanted to, and there is really nothing to stop it.
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Thank you for your reply.
 
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#432
#432
0nelilreb said:
How to control a population . First take their ability to defend themselves away from them , then start controlling what they are allowed to say , then take away their ability to speak out against the government .
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Add declare a national emergency where none exists, have 1/3 of the co- equal branch of the government turn another blind eye to their oversight obligation and once you get away with it the first time you can do it over and over just like lying for now the 8,000th time
 
#434
#434
hog88 said:
We spend more per pupil than any other country in the world, our schools are not underfunded, they are just poorly run.

Jarheads!
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A Punishing Decade for School Funding

Lots of school slashing. While our spending is up there, it’s not the highest and not all of it is spent on instruction or teachers salary as evidenced by WV most recently. There’s been huge increases in school security due to shootings. If we didn’t let any idiot with a mental disorder have access to a gun, there wouldn’t be vast amounts spent. School funding is based on the local area. Obviously poorer districts have worse schools. Why? Funding, because the people there make less money and therefore pay less taxes.
 
#435
#435
PointGuard said:
Add declare a national emergency where none exists, have 1/3 of the co- equal branch of the government turn another blind eye to their oversight obligation and once you get away with it the first time you can do it over and over just like lying for now the 8,000th time
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... if only he had some kind of history to go by maybe of other presidents not using their power to get what they want .
 
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#436
#436
USMC-TNVOL said:
A Punishing Decade for School Funding

Lots of school slashing. While our spending is up there, it’s not the highest and not all of it is spent on instruction or teachers salary as evidenced by WV most recently. There’s been huge increases in school security due to shootings. If we didn’t let any idiot with a mental disorder have access to a gun, there wouldn’t be vast amounts spent. School funding is based on the local area. Obviously poorer districts have worse schools. Why? Funding, because the people there make less money and therefore pay less taxes.
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Teachers unions are garbage and need to go. You talk about hiw bad our education is? Look no further than the department if education. I mean common core? What an absolute joke. Making kids use the ansolute dumbest logic to solve simple mathematical problems is just one thing. As far as guns and security goes, it goes way deeper than what you say here. I think it has to do with society as a whole. People, parents, are becoming mire and more obsessed with money and material things. They need new laptops, iphones, smartphones, tablets, cars smart homes you name it. In many homes across the country, bith parents are working full time jobs. Some have to while others choose to. With that comes less time for the children. Less time spent knowing whats really going on in their lives and how they feeling.

The teaching problem isnt a funding problem imo. Its a quality problem.
 
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#437
#437
USMC-TNVOL said:
A Punishing Decade for School Funding

Lots of school slashing. While our spending is up there, it’s not the highest and not all of it is spent on instruction or teachers salary as evidenced by WV most recently. There’s been huge increases in school security due to shootings. If we didn’t let any idiot with a mental disorder have access to a gun, there wouldn’t be vast amounts spent. School funding is based on the local area. Obviously poorer districts have worse schools. Why? Funding, because the people there make less money and therefore pay less taxes.
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I think that if you will check, you'll find that the state of Tennessee has a formula for distributing school funds, and the poorer counties generally receive more per capita than more affluent counties; most states probably have a similar distribution system. As far as local taxes and spending for schools, you are probably correct.

I absolutely have a problem with requests for tax increases related to school funding until school boards are forced to account for all expenditures. I mean a real breakdown so that it's actually possible to see what goes to teaching, to the bureaucracy, etc. I'm seeing a lot of new school construction that looks far more elaborate than necessary, and I question tax expenditures for facilities (like athletic facilities) that aren't used for the entire student body. I believe that travel and conferences are necessary, but the tax payer has the right to know how many, how much, and who went ... and the bulk should generally be teachers themselves rather than administrative staff. Business models are a dime a dozen, and they are pretty much like that one part of the anatomy that we all have. We all have encountered a teacher or two who actually knows how to teach, and that didn't come from somebody's theory on how to teach.
 
#438
#438
USMC-TNVOL said:
Again, you point to Cuba as "real" socialism. That's a communist government with a dictatorship. The European countries I am talking about are democratic socialist countries. As for Greece, yes, I'm sure that was caused purely from social programs. You try to oversimplify an economic problem to fit your narrative.

What about the Marshall Plan? Of course it was designed to rebuild war-torn Europe. What were they going to do? Slap a debt on Germany like Post-WW1 and cause more economic problems again? We may complete against some of those countries but most of our manufacturing competition stems from China not Europe.

For pharmaceutical costs, they are completely padded and overpriced to make insane profits. That same industry has one of the highest spending amounts in lobbying and here you are defending them, but let's not talk about how companies can lobby for laws that benefit them or about how companies like Amazon can make $11 billion in profit and not pay federal or state taxes because that would be unAmerican. So keep trying to defend the companies that overprice drugs to heal people, they love it, and it keeps the politicians in their pockets.

If we did the actual math of closing tax loopholes of huge corporations that do not pay taxes, have the power to control price gouging on medical necessities, and take the stupid amount we pay in healthcare plans a month, we could probably create a national system powerful enough to drive down costs for our healthcare.
Click to expand...

Sure Cuba was a communist country, but what is communism but extreme socialism? Go and take a look around, you won't find the total dictatorship you are looking for, but you will find an impoverished country looking for cash from tourism. You'll also find a country in ruins ... beautiful old building are gutted hulks. Everybody has roof mounted water tanks ... because the water doesn't work every day. Cars are mostly old, but the new ones are Chinese because they are mortgaging their soul to the Chinese like a lot of other poor countries around the world. The Cubans like to blame embargoes, and don't accept that they themselves are to blame for their dilemma. Socialism is a lot like creeping federalism; it constantly escalates. If you are willing to give up your personal freedom and income so somebody else can decide what's best for you, then go for it, but that's not who Americans are ... or used to be anyway.

Drug costs are a travesty. We have antitrust laws, but drug companies continually allowed to merge and reduce competition. The hyphenated company names would shame most legal firms. That gets back to government misrepresentation of it's people. Why exactly would you want more government?

The corporate tax. You should know that all expenditures ... capital, labor, materials, etc ... including taxes ... go into the product price. When you are taxed ... well, YOU are taxed. When a company is taxed, the tax is just one of the costs that goes into the price of the product or service.; the consumer not the company pays corporate taxes. Any company that continually sells products for less than the cost of all the components (to include labor costs) and overhead, isn't going to be around long. That part is pretty simple; in fact, most books on economics say that if you can't make more money producing products than you can by investing, then you shouldn't be in the business.
 
#439
#439
BigOrangeTrain said:
Teachers unions are garbage and need to go. You talk about hiw bad our education is? Look no further than the department if education. I mean common core? What an absolute joke. Making kids use the ansolute dumbest logic to solve simple mathematical problems is just one thing. As far as guns and security goes, it goes way deeper than what you say here. I think it has to do with society as a whole. People, parents, are becoming mire and more obsessed with money and material things. They need new laptops, iphones, smartphones, tablets, cars smart homes you name it. In many homes across the country, bith parents are working full time jobs. Some have to while others choose to. With that comes less time for the children. Less time spent knowing whats really going on in their lives and how they feeling.

The teaching problem isnt a funding problem imo. Its a quality problem.
Click to expand...

I don’t think I disagree with many of your points here besides school shootings and unions. These people shouldn’t have had access to guns, which is probably because of parenting or lack of rather. Sandy hook was a prime example. However, overall, their should be stricter checking and training for weapons handling.

I don’t believe teacher unions should totally be disbanded but issues like tenure are a real problem, which let teachers sit on their ass and do nothing. I do think that standardization of what it requires to be a teacher and school standards in general should be made nationwide. Otherwise, we can have different education levels at different grades in each state, which can be a big issue with 50 states.
 
#440
#440
AM64 said:
Sure Cuba was a communist country, but what is communism but extreme socialism? Go and take a look around, you won't find the total dictatorship you are looking for, but you will find an impoverished country looking for cash from tourism. You'll also find a country in ruins ... beautiful old building are gutted hulks. Everybody has roof mounted water tanks ... because the water doesn't work every day. Cars are mostly old, but the new ones are Chinese because they are mortgaging their soul to the Chinese like a lot of other poor countries around the world. The Cubans like to blame embargoes, and don't accept that they themselves are to blame for their dilemma. Socialism is a lot like creeping federalism; it constantly escalates. If you are willing to give up your personal freedom and income so somebody else can decide what's best for you, then go for it, but that's not who Americans are ... or used to be anyway.

Drug costs are a travesty. We have antitrust laws, but drug companies continually allowed to merge and reduce competition. The hyphenated company names would shame most legal firms. That gets back to government misrepresentation of it's people. Why exactly would you want more government?

The corporate tax. You should know that all expenditures ... capital, labor, materials, etc ... including taxes ... go into the product price. When you are taxed ... well, YOU are taxed. When a company is taxed, the tax is just one of the costs that goes into the price of the product or service.; the consumer not the company pays corporate taxes. Any company that continually sells products for less than the cost of all the components (to include labor costs) and overhead, isn't going to be around long. That part is pretty simple; in fact, most books on economics say that if you can't make more money producing products than you can by investing, then you shouldn't be in the business.
Click to expand...

Sure, we can’t blame Cuba’s problems purely on the embargo but it plays a big part. At some points, the US has pressured others not to do trade with Cuba. I think if we do lift the embargo that would allow more outside influence to start shifting towards a democratic government.

For drug costs, the government needs to do its part, however, as I brought up before, lobbying is a huge problem and needs to be outlawed. It influences politicians to do only what’s good for the corporations.

A company still has tax to pay on their profits. The consumer does not pay all of a business’ taxes. A big exemption Amazon got was by deducting payments to executives using stocks. Some of these deductions that corporations are allowed to use should be removed.
 
#441
#441
0nelilreb said:
... if only he had some kind of history to go by maybe of other presidents not using their power to get what they want .
Click to expand...

I missed it? There was another POTUS who declared a National Emergency when in fact there was no National Emergency?
 
#443
#443
hog88 said:
We spend more per pupil than any other country in the world, our schools are not underfunded, they are just poorly run.

Jarheads!
Click to expand...
The per capita expenditures are far more unbalanced with health care......and we rank 28th (or something like that) in life expectancy. It seems as if we get a worse return on our health care dollar than on our public education dollar.
 
#444
#444
luthervol said:
The per capita expenditures are far more unbalanced with health care......and we rank 28th (or something like that) in life expectancy. It seems as if we get a worse return on our health care dollar than on our public education dollar.
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We?
 
#446
#446
The best part of this thread is watching liberals claim how well “socialism” is working in countries that have more economic freedom than our own.

Someone remind me: what do we call that economic system that involves free markets?
 
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#448
#448
Vol8188 said:
Our low life expectancy isn’t due to what you’re claiming. Heart disease isn’t caused by a lack of medical care. If anything is a disease of wealth. We are doing so well we can afford to eat ourselves to death
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Thanks.............just as our low test scores aren't due to what you are claiming.
 
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