Social Security - your thoughts?

#751
#751
GroverCleveland said:
Would say that isn't fair. Few if any understood what a Ponzi scheme it was and by sending out annual "statements" about their account, the big lie by the government made it seem like a savings account of sorts. My granddaddy knew how to raise pigs and grow cotton. If FDR told him he could pay in for his retirement, then so be it.

It has been the third rail of politics for a long time. No one wants to deal with it head on. Any politician who suggests something is instantaneously attacked by the other side. W actually had a good idea to phase it out and was blasted by Democrats.
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My stepmother paid into it since she was 15 and it failed her. I had a letter from her doctor saying she would never be gainfully employed again. They called me 3 days after she died to deny her disability claim (2nd attempt).
 
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#752
#752
GroverCleveland said:
Would say that isn't fair. Few if any understood what a Ponzi scheme it was and by sending out annual "statements" about their account, the big lie by the government made it seem like a savings account of sorts. My granddaddy knew how to raise pigs and grow cotton. If FDR told him he could pay in for his retirement, then so be it.

It has been the third rail of politics for a long time. No one wants to deal with it head on. Any politician who suggests something is instantaneously attacked by the other side. W actually had a good idea to phase it out and was blasted by Democrats.
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their deniability ends when it involves the next generation. its one thing if they are they victim, but once they start being enriched by the scheme they can't claim the same victimhood.
 
#753
#753
GroverCleveland said:
Would say that isn't fair. Few if any understood what a Ponzi scheme it was and by sending out annual "statements" about their account, the big lie by the government made it seem like a savings account of sorts. My granddaddy knew how to raise pigs and grow cotton. If FDR told him he could pay in for his retirement, then so be it.

It has been the third rail of politics for a long time. No one wants to deal with it head on. Any politician who suggests something is instantaneously attacked by the other side. W actually had a good idea to phase it out and was blasted by Democrats.
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I remember this from W and think it was one of the few good things he proposed while POTUS
 
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#756
#756
NorthDallas40 said:
In the days of direct deposit how many checks actually get mailed?
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Good question.

But we know that the Republicans have been overstating the amount of actual fraud that goes on in. Social Seurity to try to justify cuts or restrictions. I don't think it's right to simply refer to lagging computer systems, which are not caught up on death notifications or otherwise recording them and saying that that means that there is massive actual fraud.

I am sure there is some. I'm just saying that I am skeptical that it is nearly at the level that the Republicans claim. This is similar in my view to the issue of the transgender athletes.I just don't think that is a very common problem.But the republicans make it seem like it's some sort of national crisis, overwhelming athletic competitions, and that's just not true
 
#757
#757
rekinhavoc said:
My stepmother paid into it since she was 15 and it failed her. I had a letter from her doctor saying she would never be gainfully employed again. They called me 3 days after she died to deny her disability claim (2nd attempt).
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These kind of things is what gives me really bad opinions of the federal government.
 
#760
#760
GroverCleveland said:
I'm not sure what this means.
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their culpability (guilt) is based on the involvement of the next line of victims. If it was a program FDR started that only applied to their generation, their ignorance would be excusable. especially when it was new and not understood.

their guilt would have also ended if there had been a major push to reform or end SS, but instead they have doubled down on it.

you talk to any of them now, and they still aren't decrying SS. Their argument is they have paid in for X time, so now its their turn to get paid, by the next generation. so they very clearly understand the game and the way its played. which is where their guilt comes in.
 
#761
#761
LouderVol said:
their culpability (guilt) is based on the involvement of the next line of victims. If it was a program FDR started that only applied to their generation, their ignorance would be excusable. especially when it was new and not understood.

their guilt would have also ended if there had been a major push to reform or end SS, but instead they have doubled down on it.

you talk to any of them now, and they still aren't decrying SS. Their argument is they have paid in for X time, so now its their turn to get paid, by the next generation. so they very clearly understand the game and the way its played. which is where their guilt comes in.
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I know I’m one of your “they” we’ve clashed on this before. What exactly do you want me to do to satisfy you? Walk away from 40 years of paying into the system half of which I maxed payments and just walk away and not take a cent? Explain to me why I owe you this completely untenable position?
 
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#762
#762
NorthDallas40 said:
I know I’m one of your “they” we’ve clashed on this before. What exactly do you want me to do to satisfy you? Walk away from 40 years of paying into the system half of which I maxed payments and just walk away and not take a cent? Explain to me why I owe you this completely untenable position?
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The honorable thing to do is pay in for 40 years and then pass away before you collect your first payment.
 
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#768
#768
NorthDallas40 said:
I know I’m one of your “they” we’ve clashed on this before. What exactly do you want me to do to satisfy you? Walk away from 40 years of paying into the system half of which I maxed payments and just walk away and not take a cent? Explain to me why I owe you this completely untenable position?
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where in my post do I say you "owe me" anything? is asking not to be screwed a favor? Do we need justification to end something that never worked? just because people believed the lies about a Ponzi scheme is not reason to keep it going.

I have posted my stance multiple times. SS needs to offer an opt out. It would be a win for 90% of contributors even if they just split the difference. government takes the 6.2% from the employer, let those who opt out keep the 6.2% employee contribution.

another option would be to transition to a publicly mandated, but privately owned, 401k. some percentage of the SS tax is socialised for everyone under some pay bracket, and directly contribute over the percentage back into accounts that pay more than the socialized requirement. at least then the money has a chance to grow and congress can't get their hands into it.

heck, rewrite the SS laws so that it is an actual trust fund, instead of a bunch of IOUs the government can never pay.

I know its not an issue for you, being without children; but at some point someone is going to contribute for 40 years and not get anything. my generation is going to contribute for 40 years, and AT BEST get 60% what you will get. and it will only get worse. better option than doing nothing would be to start the transition, and the only way to do that is to get your generation from flipping their lids anytime SS gets brought up as anything beyond a perfect system.
 
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#770
#770
LouderVol said:
where in my post do I say you "owe me" anything? is asking not to be screwed a favor? Do we need justification to end something that never worked? just because people believed the lies about a Ponzi scheme is not reason to keep it going.

I have posted my stance multiple times. SS needs to offer an opt out. It would be a win for 90% of contributors even if they just split the difference. government takes the 6.2% from the employer, let those who opt out keep the 6.2% employee contribution.

another option would be to transition to a publicly mandated, but privately owned, 401k. some percentage of the SS tax is socialised for everyone under some pay bracket, and directly contribute over the percentage back into accounts that pay more than the socialized requirement. at least then the money has a chance to grow and congress can't get their hands into it.

heck, rewrite the SS laws so that it is an actual trust fund, instead of a bunch of IOUs the government can never pay.

I know its not an issue for you, being without children; but at some point someone is going to contribute for 40 years and not get anything. my generation is going to contribute for 40 years, and AT BEST get 60% what you will get. and it will only get worse. better option than doing nothing would be to start the transition, and the only way to do that is to get your generation from flipping their lids anytime SS gets brought up as anything beyond a perfect system.
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Then why exactly do I need to feel guilty? You did explicitly say that. I can assure you I have zero guilt since I was forced to contribute.

As I’ve also said to you before I’m all for revamping social security even if it impacts my annuity as long as it truly puts it on the path to sustained solvency. But absent any actual changes I was forced to contribute so yes I expect every damn cent due me. It’s a parallel argument to people paying more in taxes than they owe. That’s absolutely moronic.

The reality is I will be 62 in four months and thus yes I am close enough that it’s highly improbable my annuity will be impacted. Not until the fund is exhausted anyway. And no I expect you will not get that same result. I don’t blame you I’d be bitter as hell. Just be sure to direct that bitterness at the correct targets. Hey like McDad said maybe you’ll get lucky and I kick off in the next five years would that be acceptable? 🤷‍♂️
 
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#771
#771
NorthDallas40 said:
Then why exactly do I need to feel guilty? You did explicitly say that. I can assure you I have zero guilt since I was forced to contribute.

As I’ve also said to you before I’m all for revamping social security even if it impacts my annuity as long as it truly puts it on the path to sustained solvency. But absent any actual changes I was forced to contribute so yes I expect every damn cent due me. It’s a parallel argument to people paying more in taxes than they owe. That’s absolutely moronic.

The reality is I will be 62 in four months and thus yes I am close enough that it’s highly improbable my annuity will be impacted. Not until the fund is exhausted anyway. And no I expect you will not get that same result. I don’t blame you I’d be bitter as hell. Just be sure to direct that bitterness at the correct targets. Hey like McDad said maybe you’ll get lucky and I kick off in the next five years would that be acceptable? 🤷‍♂️
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guilt and guilty are two different things. I am talking about culpability, not a feeling or remorse/regret.

it would be a world of difference if your generation was even just open to having the conversation to provide A solution. as was pointed out, it was killed under Bush with no real discussion/support from Congress because the older generations lose their mind.
 
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#772
#772
LouderVol said:
guilt and guilty are two different things. I am talking about culpability, not a feeling or remorse/regret.

it would be a world of difference if your generation was even just open to having the conversation to provide A solution. as was pointed out, it was killed under Bush with no real discussion/support from Congress because the older generations lose their mind.
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I’m not culpable either. Neither apply. Again I am forced to contribute. I guess I could take the same stance and (if I’m alive in 5 years) I won’t take one cent if you start today and don’t pay in a single cent more? Does that fix it?
 
#773
#773
NorthDallas40 said:
I’m not culpable either. Neither apply. Again I am forced to contribute. I guess I could take the same stance and (if I’m alive in 5 years) I won’t take one cent if you start today and don’t pay in a single cent more? Does that fix it?
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talk with your representative. the like two responses I have gotten from my representatives have both said there isn't support for change, but they appreciate the feed back.
 
#774
#774
LouderVol said:
guilt and guilty are two different things. I am talking about culpability, not a feeling or remorse/regret.

it would be a world of difference if your generation was even just open to having the conversation to provide A solution. as was pointed out, it was killed under Bush with no real discussion/support from Congress because the older generations lose their mind.
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When this was killed I was probably younger than you are now.

ND40, yeah he was already an old fart but still.....
 
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#775
#775
LouderVol said:
talk with your representative. the like two responses I have gotten from my representatives have both said there isn't support for change, but they appreciate the feed back.
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I’ve actually written my representative multiple times over the last 30 years or so. I do not recall if I explicitly brought up SS but most had to do with fiscal responsibility and dealt with multiple fiscal issues in each submission. I could lie and said I absolutely have but no I’m not going to do that. As I’ve said I don’t blame your generation for being pissed. But our two generations trying to force untenable positions on each other solves nothing.
 
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