Social Security - your thoughts?

#652
#652
NorthDallas40 said:
When it comes to SS I don’t care of if I hit the lottery tomorrow and never need a penny of it. I’d take the total monthly payment out of the bank each month in 10 dollar bills and pile them by my toilet and wipe my ass with them then flush them. I had to pay in I didn’t have a choice. So now they’re gonna pay me back.
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I knew there was still hope for you
 
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#654
#654
NorthDallas40 said:
Lol. Dude I assure you I’m the same guy I always was. But there’s only so much stupid any one person can swallow before enough is enough. I just hit mine early is all.
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He doesn't understand the fact that most true conservatives have never really liked Trump. As you said, this time around it has come completely off the rails.
 
#655
#655
BernardKingGOAT said:
He doesn't understand the fact that most true conservatives have never really liked Trump. As you said, this time around it has come completely off the rails.
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I’ve tried to give Trump credit where credit is due and there are certainly campaign promises he has kept. Like I said immigration being the big one. But there damn sure are fewer guardrails this time and a significantly lower amount of dissenting voices in the room. Trump has ran his last election there is no office you campaign for after POTUS. So he has nothing to lose. That’s how I see it anyway.
 
#656
#656
SpaceCoastVol said:
I didn't care. I paid into that system for decades. Now it is time for the .gov to pay me back.
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There is really no system to "pay into". SS is just a tax you pay nothing more. SS taxes are not earmarked for anything, it just goes into the general fund and gets spent on whatever Congress wants to spend it on. You have no legal right, no contractual right, no property right to a SS check. Since the gov't has no legal, contractual obligation to send you a SS check but sends you one anyway, then your SS check is nothing more than a "gift" the gov't sends you each month, a gratuity that they do not have to send to you. They can take it away from you if they want to and you cannot do anything about it. SS check is basically a welfare check. Most retirees in time will receive more in benefits than what they paid in SS taxes bankrupting the system. So the bend points are used to take money from higher earners to keep the others from bankrupting the system. No one has a "right" to receive more in benefits than what they paid in taxes. If everyone got out of it no more than they put into it, then the system would not be broke. But the Dems did not design SS to work that way they designed it to be another way to redistribute wealth. Just like they use minimum wage as a means to redistribute wealth. Your employer must pay a 6.2% SS tax on you, another form of redistribution of wealth.
 
#657
#657
NorthDallas40 said:
Best put that broad brush away Louder. I am for fixing the system right now. Yes the government’s money is taxpayer money but in this case, the way its supposed to be set up anyway, the funds were taken from me over decades and then are to be paid back to me based on my pay in schedule. It isn’t the same payout model of the general fund. And I’ve never cast a vote based on SS reform that I can think of as I can’t remember a single candidate in the general that featured it as a plank in their platform. NOBODY will touch it because it’s political suicide. All I’m saying is let’s fix it today. Right now. But whatever the fixed payout schedule looks like I expect every damn penny. It’s pretty damn disingenuous to expect anybody that was forced to contribute into something for decades to just walk away has shrug when they reach the payback point.
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I wouldn't think it would be disingenuous for these people to walk away:
-those with kids who want them to have a better life
-those who are against socialism
-those who want a better future/better government
-those who want a smaller government.

SS is just the gateway drug of socialism. it gets you hooked by making you pay in and promising you someone else's money. the lie about you getting yours back is just that, a lie. its a government ran ponzi scheme, it should be ended.

and remember I have proposed alternatives to SS. my version doesn't just delete SS and give Congress the money to eff around with. there are ways for people who have paid in to actually get theirs, while still providing for the takers.

the reason its political suicide is because no one supports actually making a change. if the people got out and supported a change, and supported those who tried to make changes, it wouldn't be considered political suicide. the indifference on the matter has made it political suicide. the government/politicians have sold you a lie that it can only be done by them, and instead of ever questioning those politicians you just buy hoping that there is still enough left for you. not caring that you are just screwing the next generation worse than you were screwed.
 
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#658
#658
SpaceCoastVol said:
Yep. The government took. Now it's time for them to pay it back. I didn't care how they get it.

But the good news is is that I won't apply for another 5 years.
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they aren't going to pay it back. I already pointed that out. you have even stated the truth, but miss what it actually means. my generation will be paying for it. Not some government politician. then the next generation will be left with an even worse amount to pay back.

all because you would rather others suffer more than you did, than to stop the suffering.
 
#659
#659
LouderVol said:
I wouldn't think it would be disingenuous for these people to walk away:
-those with kids who want them to have a better life
-those who are against socialism
-those who want a better future/better government
-those who want a smaller government.

SS is just the gateway drug of socialism. it gets you hooked by making you pay in and promising you someone else's money. the lie about you getting yours back is just that, a lie. its a government ran ponzi scheme, it should be ended.

and remember I have proposed alternatives to SS. my version doesn't just delete SS and give Congress the money to eff around with. there are ways for people who have paid in to actually get theirs, while still providing for the takers.

the reason its political suicide is because no one supports actually making a change. if the people got out and supported a change, and supported those who tried to make changes, it wouldn't be considered political suicide. the indifference on the matter has made it political suicide. the government/politicians have sold you a lie that it can only be done by them, and instead of ever questioning those politicians you just buy hoping that there is still enough left for you. not caring that you are just screwing the next generation worse than you were screwed.
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I missed your proposal can you repost? And how does it transition to a new system while addressing the payouts from the existing system to those already paid in and either drawing or are soon to draw?
 
#660
#660
LouderVol said:
because the money in the SS trust fund isn't just disappearing with my scenario. its just getting distributed to privately ran 401k on some type of retirement plan. the distributions would be weighted to how long and how much you have been contributing, with some money still being set aside to the people who are earning already and haven't contributed and also those with in 15 years of retirement.

its a loss, because of the free loaders, but that was already a factor with SS. the difference is those accounts would start to grow, while SS just sits there and hemorrhages.

I have no way to calculate how the payments would compare for those right at the cusp. but I could easily see the distribution being weighted to ensure they get a set amount that would equal SS payments over some set amount of time (life expectancy +5). that would further take away from everyone else, but they would have time for the market to back fill that loss.

going forward your 6.2% (I think i falsely said 6.6% earlier) would go into your account. while your employers 6.2% contribution would go into a common pot that is distributed to the freeloader accounts.

I would also like to see some type of reclamation program on the freeloader accounts. if there is any money left in a freeloader account 2 years after their death, and any outstanding dues are paid, that money goes back into the common pot, and distributed again. can't be passed on to spouse or child. the normal accounts would be passable.
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bump for @NorthDallas40

this is from a while ago
 
#661
#661
LouderVol said:
bump for @NorthDallas40

this is from a while ago
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Ok thanks. A quick read of it shows a strait up 401K/IRA distribution of all current trust fund values weighted by an individual’s specific contributions? I can support that. And to your point it gets rid of the biggest socialized wealth redistribution this country has ever seen.

But absent this … pay me my damn money 😎
 
#662
#662
NorthDallas40 said:
Ok thanks. A quick read of it shows a strait up 401K/IRA distribution of all current trust fund values weighted by an individual’s specific contributions? I can support that. And to your point it gets rid of the biggest socialized wealth redistribution this country has ever seen.

But absent this … pay me my damn money 😎
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You got plenty of money. shut up, greedy man.
 
#665
#665
NorthDallas40 said:
Ok thanks. A quick read of it shows a strait up 401K/IRA distribution of all current trust fund values weighted by an individual’s specific contributions? I can support that. And to your point it gets rid of the biggest socialized wealth redistribution this country has ever seen.

But absent this … pay me my damn money 😎
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the other option I have thrown out is an opt in/out option for employees.

if you opt in, nothing changes, welcome to socialism comrade.
if you opt out, you keep "your" half of the SS payments, while your employer contributes "their" normal 6.2%. you are completely ineligible for SS, including thru spouses or other ways of getting it (disability). you can opt back in but there is some buy-in period, where you have to contribute for some minimum period (10, 15, 20) before you can get any payouts, even if that extends you past the normal payout dates.
 
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#666
#666
LouderVol said:
the other option I have thrown out is an opt in/out option for employees.

if you opt in, nothing changes, welcome to socialism comrade.
if you opt out, you keep "your" half of the SS payments, while your employer contributes "their" normal 6.2%. you are completely ineligible for SS, including thru spouses or other ways of getting it (disability). you can opt back in but there is some buy-in period, where you have to contribute for some minimum period (10, 15, 20) before you can get any payouts, even if that extends you past the normal payout dates.
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There are way to many people that will spend every dollar that they can get their hands on for more expensive fishing boats, pickup trucks, and fancy clothes and jewelry. Can’t give a lot of people theirs or else they’ll spend it all and end up on a different social welfare program later in their lives.
 
#667
#667
Thunder Good-Oil said:
There are way to many people that will spend every dollar that they can get their hands on for more expensive fishing boats, pickup trucks, and fancy clothes and jewelry. Can’t give a lot of people theirs or else they’ll spend it all and end up on a different social welfare program later in their lives.
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IRL louder says so the eff what, thats not the government (aka my) problem. cut it all. yeah people suffer in the short term until they learn that the stove top eye is hot and they should stop touching it. no more parent intervention required. the smart learn from the dumb without burning themselves, and the problem minimizes itself without the government forcing people to do things.

I am taking that 6.2% and going to be able to actually retire before I have one foot in the grave. I shouldn't have to suffer because other people are dumb.

the politician side is why I pushed the 401k-ish option.

the tax bit stays the same as it is now. 6.2% required to go into an individual privately held (but government mandated) 401k-ish. the return on that is going to be far more than they would ever get from SS.

the other 6.2% goes into a common pot that gets distributed to the takers own individual held 401ks. they still get their free money, but also have a reason to respect the actual economy because they will see their own future impacted by the growth of the market. as it is now you get the leeches who just want to take from the next generation to get theirs.
 
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