So, what is UConn doing to prevent turnovers which we aren't?

[GameTime]

The aftertaste of a season endings game's brutal loss, lingers long after the defeat....Thus was born the phrases "We'll get em next year, or the infamous "What the hell happened?"

As fans of the program, we're aware defeat is always 40 minutes away, but so is victory...Two fathers with different destinations, but inhabiting the same space ....It depends on ones point of view...

I like Holly the person, and I want to like Holly the coach. But it was clear this past season, fundamentals of solid basketball play was not being adhered to...She has got to be tough on her ladies, the opponents sure are going to be.

 

[brassie]

Auriemma's teams have always emphasized guard play - even when they had post players like Charles and Moore.
You will seldom see a UConn guard make a lazy pass even when the team is up by 40 points. Bad passes are a sure ticket to a seat on the bench. That's one reason why UConn has such great A/TO numbers. Another reason - team basketball. That takes a guard able to recognize who has the best shot and then the ability to get them the ball.

Some telling numbers directly related to guard play -

NCAA turnover ranking - UConn #2, UT #217
NCAA A/TO ranking - UConn #2, UT #114
NCAA Assists - UConn #1, UT #58

The disparity in those numbers is not new. UT has had bad assist and turnover numbers for years. They have had the talent (just look at the UT players in the WNBA) but IMO they have not done the best job developing their players.

There is a well known UConn fan who has posted for years that UT won't return to a FF until they get a great guard. Not a shooter but a leader. A guard that is focused on team basketball. I think he is 100% correct and UT's recent performance supports that.

Pounding the ball into the paint and a defense based almost entirely on rebounding won't get it done anymore.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Did everybody see these numbers? UConn twice as many assists as turnovers. UT assists and turnovers practically even. Speaks VOLUMES about the two teams. These stats aren't a one-year thing--they are a 20-year thing. I know because I've been pointing it out for YEARS.

It is not the players Geno recruits, however: IT IS COACHING, and it has been the big difference between the two programs since Geno first started at Ct. I saw the difference 20 years ago, when Ct. didn't have much talent but they passed the ball so much better than UT did. Geno teaches his team to move the basketball--quickly and crisply; to move without the ball, to run plays until someone gets open.

On the other hand, UT's coaches have been CLUELESS about good half-court offense and good passing for 20 years. PS did not know how to teach good ball movement and passing and neither does Warlick. Basically, Summitt's idea of a good offense was to throw it to the best player and hope she can score--and Warlick pretty does the same thing. This, simply put, is why ND has been kicking our butt (they are an excellent passing team too) and why Ct. would if we played them. Our players threw it Harrison or Simmons last year--and if they were not open, two things often would happen. Simmons would shoot it anyway or one of the other players would go into a panic mode and throw the ball away. Will it change this year? I doubt it.

To me, there appears to be a couple of reasons why we have so many turn overs.

1 Forcing passes into the post when the post is doubled teamed or the defense is playing a sinking zone to shut down post play.

2. Lazy passes around the perimeter. Passes are lobed around the outside and players do not meet the passes. Results are intercepted passes which lead to instant points for the defense.

3. Uncontrolled fast brakes where passes are forced into the middle and the player in the middle does not not pass the ball early enough for the other players to have control of the ball when attempting the shot.

All of these flats can be corrected with practice.

Just my opinion.

 

[ItsAllVols]

Better athletes and better coaching. I don't think Holly is bad per se, but she is nowhere near the caliber coach of that mobster at UConn, nor is she as good of a recruiter. He can flaunt all the NCs that he's won, but Holly hadn't done enough on her own at this point to prove she's worthy of the elite players wanting to play for her.

I agree to a point, but with the woman its about the recruits, and she is bringing them in. Going to be a fun time around Tennessee.

 

[brassie]

I saw a short video clip of a UConn practice. It was almost brutal. But Genonsaid: "we don't practice until we get it right. We practice until we can't possible get it Wrong."

That is the answer to the low turn over rate and the high assist rate.

Auriemma's players always say that compared to practice, playing a game is a breeze.

 

[GameTime]

brassie are you of the UConn persuasion? No complaint if you are, but it would be nice to know for future reference.

 

[brassie]

brassie are you of the UConn persuasion? No complaint if you are, but it would be nice to know for future reference.

I've been a UConn fan for over 20 years. I'm also a fan of WCBB. Unlike some UConn fans I am not a UT hater although I will admit to having some problems with certain UT fans.

 

[GameTime]

I've been a UConn fan for over 20 years. I'm also a fan of WCBB. Unlike some UConn fans I am not a UT hater although I will admit to having some problems with certain UT fans.

brassie is an unusual moniker....Does it have anything to do with round spherical objects made of brass?

Just messin with ya son.

 

[armchair]

We are not a well coached team. I've been saying this for years but the diehards don't want to hear it. PS was good at coaching defense and rebounding, but she wasn't a good offensive coach at all; she relied on having more pure talent than the other team and on UT's star players scoring when needed. That doesn't cut it anymore. We don't know what good passing and ball movement is, because we never do it. When you've got a team full of top recruits, you should be effective offensively without superstars--IF you are well coached and well drilled. Our A/TO ratio has been bad for well over a decade--been pointing it out for years--and we also don't play the kind of defense we used to play. Can HW fix these issues? Don't count on it. I'm not sure she or PS or the staff even focused on this problem until very recently. She talks about turnovers being a problem but one never sees much evidence that the team is learning to pass and move the ball better and thus avoid them.

 

[brassie]

brassie is an unusual moniker....Does it have anything to do with round spherical objects made of brass?

Just messin with ya son.

Brassie is an archaic name for a golf club - somewhere between a driver and a spoon.

 

[reno tony]

Third opponents shot 36.6 percent against our defense with the better teams getting in the high forties so defense was not very good. Holly claimed they worked on it all pre-season. UConn allowed teams to only shoot 31 percent last season.

Interesting stat about UCONN: Over their last 373 games, only one time did they allow a team to shoot 50% from the floor. Can you imagine that. With all the ranked opponents they played over the last ten years and only one team during one game shot 50% from the floor. Defense is the key to consistency. Even if they have a relatively poor shooting night, if their opponents can't score, they still give themselves a chance to win. If Holly can find someone who can focus on team defense, UT stands a chance to beat anyone.

 

[brassie]

One only need look at the "lying" statistics to see where there is room for improvement. Bad assist and turnover
numbers along with a very low ranking in steals are all indicators that the guards are not doing their job.

My opinion - UT needs to hire an assistant that knows how to coach guards - and how to make them play the game the coaches want played.

 

[armchair]

UT simply hasn't had the talent at guard over the last decade. PS's guard recruiting was really bad for several years. We went two years, not long ago, WITHOUT a PG! That's how bad it was. We had Stricklin, a small forward, playing PG, for two years. We had a series of shooting guards who were "heady" but not athletic--good not get their own shots and could not play defense. And PS never recruited enough guards. We went YEARS without having two good guards on the same team--made it hard to guard the perimeter and and score. We now have two good guards--if Massengale is healthy--and maybe three. Holly is doing substantially better on the recruiting front, but coaching is an issue. UT fans think that PS was this genius coach because she won 8 titles and was a good person. PS could coach defense and rebounding and toughness--but when opposing players and teams got better offensively, with better coaching, UT's tradition of ragged offensively play started to become a problem. And then our recruiting fell off, and here we are, with a LONGTIME assistant trying to prove she's got the chops to turn pieces into a serious contender.

 

[Sandvol]

UT simply hasn't had the talent at guard over the last decade. PS's guard recruiting was really bad for several years. We went two years, not long ago, WITHOUT a PG! That's how bad it was. We had Stricklin, a small forward, playing PG, for two years. We had a series of shooting guards who were "heady" but not athletic--good not get their own shots and could not play defense. And PS never recruited enough guards. We went YEARS without having two good guards on the same team--made it hard to guard the perimeter and and score. We now have two good guards--if Massengale is healthy--and maybe three. Holly is doing substantially better on the recruiting front, but coaching is an issue. UT fans think that PS was this genius coach because she won 8 titles and was a good person. PS could coach defense and rebounding and toughness--but when opposing players and teams got better offensively, with better coaching, UT's tradition of ragged offensively play started to become a problem. And then our recruiting fell off, and here we are, with a LONGTIME assistant trying to prove she's got the chops to turn pieces into a serious contender.

Your damn revisionist history. She recruited Cait McMahan who was probably the best point guard in the country. If she had not gotten the knee injury those 4 years would have been much different(but they still won 2 anyway). The class she recruited with Stricklin just ended up being a so-so class with McMahan gone. Briana Bass turned out to be a dud. It happens that way. Pat could coach all phases of basketball and you really don't know when her disease started affecting her. Also, we have potentially four good point guards with Massengale, Reynolds, Carter, and Middleton. Reynolds is a great point guard. Better than Massengale in my opinion. Massengale should go to the two. She can't play defense.

And, defense and rebounding still win championships.

 

[Sandvol]

We are not a well coached team. I've been saying this for years but the diehards don't want to hear it. PS was good at coaching defense and rebounding, but she wasn't a good offensive coach at all; she relied on having more pure talent than the other team and on UT's star players scoring when needed. That doesn't cut it anymore. We don't know what good passing and ball movement is, because we never do it. When you've got a team full of top recruits, you should be effective offensively without superstars--IF you are well coached and well drilled. Our A/TO ratio has been bad for well over a decade--been pointing it out for years--and we also don't play the kind of defense we used to play. Can HW fix these issues? Don't count on it. I'm not sure she or PS or the staff even focused on this problem until very recently. She talks about turnovers being a problem but one never sees much evidence that the team is learning to pass and move the ball better and thus avoid them.

You are full of crap.

 

[GameTime]

Guys as a LV fan I have to admit our offense has rarely been a thing of beauty, but somehow there are 8 banners hanging from the roof, so something must have been done right...

There have been some significant injuries to key personnel that have affected our team's fortunes since the last championship run.... Not an excuse, just facts. This program has been hit hard with major injuries from the players to the forced retirement of the head coach...

Vicky Baugh was never ever able to stay on the floor, and when she did play, after the 2 major knee injuries she was less than spectacular....Cait never recovered from her knee injuries too and had to give up basketball....Kelly Cain, another big girl, with injuries that limited her time as a LV and had to leave the program...There were others, but I can't remember their names..Who was the girl that severely cut her foot and then she was gone? This past season we lose our point guard, who was having a hell of a season, for a large portion of the year, and a red shirt freshmen and a true freshmen run the show, not a good combination.

As much as I liked Simmons, the team became to dependent on her for scoring and often waited for her to shoot...It was a Tale of Two Cities with her...In the big games it was usually the worst of times. But she was a valiant competitor and had no fear. I did like her.

Brassie my friend, if you guys had met Griner in the Elite 8 like we did, when they won the title, your team's string of final 4's would have been broken.

This past season you guys looked as good as any WCBB team has ever looked, IMHO. You see son, GameTime giveth, and GameTime taketh.

It's good to have these little discussions.

 

[Volfan2012]

I hate the fact that we talk defense and can't play any. We usually have two or three players on the floor that are good defensive players and a couple that are liabilities. We do an awful job of stopping the ball. We lost the regular season SEC title because we couldn't stop guard penetration. We lost to Maryland because we could not find anyone on the entire team that could stop Thomas. The fact that we started with Burdick on her proved we didn't have an answer.
Holding teams like Oakland and Troy to 30 percent shooting isn't defense they can't shoot in the first place. Teams like Notre Dame and Stanford is where 30 percent means you have played great defense. Stanford shot 43 won by six. If we hold them in the thirties we win that game. Notre Dame 50 percent. Where was the defense we supposedly had practiced for three months? We did hold Maryland to 39 percent but they held us to 35. So even when we played defense the offense let us down.
UConn teams very seldom put a defensive player on an island to defend one on one there is always help. We depend way to much on one player being able to step up and make a stop on a particular player. Defense means get the ball out of the hands of their best players. Let the worst shooters shoot the ball if they make their shots just live with it.

 

[Amb3096]

As much as I liked Simmons, the team became to dependent on her for scoring and often waited for her to shoot...It was a Tale of Two Cities with her...In the big games it was usually the worst of times. But she was a valiant competitor and had no fear. I did like her.

The problem started with the fact that Simmons was the go-to player from the time she set foot on campus. She joined a team that had 5 future WNBA players (Stricklen, Baugh, Johnson, Kamiko, Cain) and two solid college players (Spani/Bjorklund) and they all deferred to her and let her shoot them out of big games. One of them needed to step up and lead the team, and they all pretty much set up a freshman for failure.

 

[Amb3096]

Holding teams like Oakland and Troy to 30 percent shooting isn't defense they can't shoot in the first place. Teams like Notre Dame and Stanford is where 30 percent means you have played great defense. Stanford shot 43 won by six. If we hold them in the thirties we win that game. Notre Dame 50 percent. Where was the defense we supposedly had practiced for three months? We did hold Maryland to 39 percent but they held us to 35. So even when we played defense the offense let us down.
UConn teams very seldom put a defensive player on an island to defend one on one there is always help. We depend way to much on one player being able to step up and make a stop on a particular player. Defense means get the ball out of the hands of their best players. Let the worst shooters shoot the ball is they make their shots just live with it.

No one on Tennessee was truly a great defender. For all the talk of Carter being a great defender, she was not effective against the better guards (Mitchell being the exception...she did a great job on her).

Burdick was another that was supposedly a great defender. She talked a lot, but she was only a good defender against the Troys and Oaklands on the schedule. Watching Alyssa Thomas kick sand in Burdick's face while she curled up in fetal position whimpering epitomized Tennessee's struggles last year. Too much talk, not enough results.

I don't know why they aren't a better defensive team. They have good athletes. Watching far less athletic players consistently drive by their Tennessee defenders was concerning. They don't just need better team defense. They need good individual defense. Every team knew that they were always going to get by on the dribble drive and have open outside shooters if any help defense came. It was too predictable.

Defense..defense...defense!

 

[armchair]

The problem started with the fact that Simmons was the go-to player from the time she set foot on campus. She joined a team that had 5 future WNBA players (Stricklen, Baugh, Johnson, Kamiko, Cain) and two solid college players (Spani/Bjorklund) and they all deferred to her and let her shoot them out of big games. One of them needed to step up and lead the team, and they all pretty much set up a freshman for failure.

I loved Simmons' passion but she shot the ball too much, was erratic--and she was NEVER reigned in by the coaches. She should have been taught to create more but instead did nothing but shoot, and consistently had poor games against good opponents (ironically, her last game against maryland was an exception to that pattern). Typically had more turnovers than assists (80 assists, 93 TOs for the year). Warlick finally recognized that she was a bit of a problem, but not until midway through her senior year! A bit too late to recognize a basic fact about one of your players!

This year Jones and Graves are two players that need serious improvement, in different facets of the game.

 

[Sandvol]

The problem started with the fact that Simmons was the go-to player from the time she set foot on campus. She joined a team that had 5 future WNBA players (Stricklen, Baugh, Johnson, Kamiko, Cain) and two solid college players (Spani/Bjorklund) and they all deferred to her and let her shoot them out of big games. One of them needed to step up and lead the team, and they all pretty much set up a freshman for failure.

That's an accurate statement. I really believe Simmons leaving the program will be a positive. She had a lot of intensity and energy but she was very disruptive of the offense. No one ever knew what she was going to do when she had the ball.

 

[Sandvol]

Here is Luigi's record at UCONN. It took him awhile to get it going and then when he finally won a championship he didn't stay there but fell back to Sweet 16. We need to give Holly time to develop as a coach and to put her stamp on the program. By her 5th full year she should have us back to Final Four. If not then we need to reevaluate.




1985–86 Connecticut 12–15 4–12 7th
1986–87 Connecticut 14–13 9–7 T–4th
1987–88 Connecticut 17–11 9–7 5th
1988–89 Connecticut 24–6 13–2 1st NCAA 1st Round
1989–90 Connecticut 25–6 14–2 T–1st NCAA 2nd Round
1990–91 Connecticut 29–5 14–2 1st NCAA Final Four
1991–92 Connecticut 23–11 13–5 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
1992–93 Connecticut 18–11 12–6 3rd NCAA 1st Round
1993–94 Connecticut 30–3 17–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1994–95 Connecticut 35–0 18–0 1st NCAA Champions
1995–96 Connecticut 34–4 17–1 1st NCAA Final Four
1996–97 Connecticut 33–1 18–0 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1997–98 Connecticut 34–3 17–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1998–99 Connecticut 29–5 17–1 T–1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1999–2000 Connecticut 36–1 16–0 1st NCAA Champions
2000–01 Connecticut 32–3 15–1 T–1st NCAA Final Four
2001–02 Connecticut 39–0 16–0 1st NCAA Champions
2002–03 Connecticut 37–1 16–0 1st NCAA Champions
2003–04 Connecticut 31–4 14–2 1st NCAA Champions
2004–05 Connecticut 25–8 13–2 T–2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2005–06 Connecticut 32–5 14–2 2nd NCAA Elite Eight
2006–07 Connecticut 32–4 16–0 1st NCAA Elite Eight
2007–08 Connecticut 36–2 17–1 1st NCAA Final Four
2008–09 Connecticut 39–0 16–0 1st NCAA Champions
2009–10 Connecticut 39–0 16–0 1st NCAA Champions
2010–11 Connecticut 36–2 16–0 1st NCAA Final Four
2011–12 Connecticut 33–5 13–3 3rd NCAA Final Four
2012–13 Connecticut 35–4 14–2 2nd NCAA Champions

 

[Amb3096]

Here is Luigi's record at UCONN. It took him awhile to get it going and then when he finally won a championship he didn't stay there but fell back to Sweet 16. We need to give Holly time to develop as a coach and to put her stamp on the program. By her 5th full year she should have us back to Final Four. If not then we need to reevaluate.

Without looking into it, I'm going to guess that Holly had way more talent her first two years than Geno did. Plus, she's older...so time isn't necessarily on her side.

E8 her first year isn't too bad, but there were no excuses for the collapse against MD this year. The team somehow managed to make Alyssa Thomas look EVEN BETTER than she is! That was a classic case of not being able to man up against the big boys.

 

[volcrazy89]

I think the main factor is if you aren't a good passer with a very high basketball IQ ... you won't be recruited by UConn.

Tennessee tends to recruit skill over basketball IQ.

 

[volcrazy89]

Reynolds is a great point guard. Better than Massengale in my opinion.

lol:

:hmm: