So, now that Delmonico is done...

#1
Sheik Yerbouti

Sheik Yerbouti

Class of 2000
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#1
what sort of message does this send to the coaches of the other major UT sports programs. Compare this article in teh Tennessean today: Inconsistent play costs UT baseball coach his job - Nashville, Tennessee - Monday, 06/04/07 - Tennessean.com, with this comment left by some anonymous poster:

Will Mike Hamilton hold Phil Fulmer to the same standard that he held Rod Delmonico to? Delmonico has been more consistent in winning than Phil Fulmer has been in the past 8 years at UT.

Lets take look at Phil Fulmer's record and see how he has fared at winning championships since 1998.

Phil Fulmer's Record Since 1998

Years without SEC title: 8
Years without BCS bowl: 7
Years without top 10 ranking: 5
Years without AP Top 25 ranking: 2000, 2002, 2005, *probably* 2006
Years with 3 or more losses: 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 (5 straight years and 7 out of 8 )
Years with 4 or more losses: 2000, 2002, 2005, 2006
Years with 5 or more losses: 2002, 2005
Years with 6 losses: 2005
Years with multiple losses to unranked teams: 2003, 2005
Years with loss within last 2 games of season: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 (EIGHT straight years and counting)

4-8 (.333) vs. Spurrier: (2-3 since 1998 )
2-4 (.333) vs. Richt
1-3 (.250) vs. Tuberville
1-2 (.333) vs. Saban
0-2 (.000) vs. Meyer

9-16 (.360) 1999 - present vs. FL, GA, LSU, AUB (thank God for Zook!)
7-15 (.318 ) 2000 - present vs. FL, GA, LSU, AUB
5-14 (.263) 2000 - present vs. FL, GA, LSU, AUB excluding games vs. Zook
5-12 (.294) 2000 - present vs. FL, GA, AUB
3-11 (.214) 2000 - present vs. FL, GA, AUB excluding games vs. Zook
5-9 (.357) 2000 - present vs. FL, GA
3-8 (.272) 2000 - present vs. FL, GA excluding games vs. Zook
2-5 (.286) 2000 - present vs. GA
8-14 (.363) vs. Top 10 teams 1999 - present
1-6 (.142) vs. Top 10 teams at home 2000 - present
6-12 (.333) vs. Top 10 teams 2000 - present
17-19 (.472) vs. Ranked Teams 1999 - present
2-5 (.285) Bowl games since 1998 (all double digit losses)
2-7 (.222) Postseason record since 1998 including SECCG (all double digit losses)

Losses To Unranked Teams:
2006 PSU 20 TN 10
2005 Van 28 TN 24
2005 SC 16 TN 15
2004 ND 17 TN 13
2003 Clem 27 TN 14
2003 Aub 28 TN 21
2001 GA 26 TN 24
2000 LSU 38 TN 31
1999 Ark 28 TN 24

Footnote: only AP polls were used for ranking purposes.

The Accomplishments of Fulmer's Recruiting Prowress

56 players drafted by the NFL from 1999-2007 and NO, NADA, NIL, ZERO, 0, SEC Championships.
26 players drafted from 2003-2007 and proceeded to lose 16 games while posting a 21-11 SEC record.
17 players off the 2005 and 2006 teams were invited to the NFL combines in 2006 & 2007. (5-6 record in 05 and a combined 14-10 record for both seasons.)
Click to expand...

Wowzers! :vava:

Try to understand that I genuinely like Phil Fulmer. So educate me on why Fulmer is not in trouble if he has a crappy season this year.
 
#2
#2
First of all, Delmonico's firing was WAY OVERDUE! UT's baseball team has underachieved for the past 5-6 years mainly because of Delmonico's inability to coach the team. Maybe we can get some new blood in there to lead this team back to the NCAA tourney.....Secondly, if Fulmer has another year like he had in 05...he will probably receive the same fate!...but I think that year was a wakeup call for the entire coaching staff. This year will be interesting to say the least.
 
#3
#3
If Fulmer goes 8-5 or worse, the majority of UT fans want to see Fulmer retire and a new head coach brought in.
 
#5
#5
I like Fulmer but I believe he's lost his edge. that's obvious over the past several years. we struggle against big teams. look at his records against good coaches.
 
#6
#6
oof. that made my head hurt. all the other stuff aside, the one that always gets me is this:
4-8 (.333) vs. Spurrier: (2-3 since 1998 )
2-4 (.333) vs. Richt
1-3 (.250) vs. Tuberville
1-2 (.333) vs. Saban
0-2 (.000) vs. Meyer

that's the stuff that can't be ignored....
 
#8
#8
jakez4ut said:
oof. that made my head hurt. all the other stuff aside, the one that always gets me is this:
4-8 (.333) vs. Spurrier: (2-3 since 1998 )
2-4 (.333) vs. Richt
1-3 (.250) vs. Tuberville
1-2 (.333) vs. Saban
0-2 (.000) vs. Meyer

that's the stuff that can't be ignored....
Click to expand...

It definitely can't be ignored, but it's also an example of using statistics to prove a point you already believe. Someobody on the other side of the argument could just as easily say for instance that in his last 6 meetings with Spurrier and Richt, CPF is 4-2. I don't think anybody except the most delusional homers would really say that CPF owns Spurrier and Richt though; just proves how competitive things are right now.
 
#9
#9
GAVol said:
It definitely can't be ignored, but it's also an example of using statistics to prove a point you already believe. Someobody on the other side of the argument could just as easily say for instance that in his last 6 meetings with Spurrier and Richt, CPF is 4-2.
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completely agree.
 
#10
#10
oklavol said:
This was the poll I did. It wasn't very favorable to Fulmer. An 8-4 regular season was about 50-50.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols/29021-what-win-loss-record-next-season.html
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Oh, cool. I never saw the poll, but that's neat info. It is a slightly different question than I'm asking, however. I mean, I'm personally down for asking the guy to retire at 8-4 (or 9-3 if we have a bad bowl loss).

But what I'm more interested in is whether the attitude in the athletic department to underperforming coaches is changing generally, or are there some factors that are specific to Delmonico that just don't apply to Fulmer? For example, was Delmonico particularly unlikeable... or out of favor with Hamilton? Or, is Fulmer's lack of recent success viewed as a series of unfortunate flukes? In other words, what's the big distinguishing factor, assuming there is one?
 
#11
#11
Sheik Yerbouti said:
But what I'm more interested in is whether the attitude in the athletic department to underperforming coaches is changing generally, or are there some factors that are specific to Delmonico that just don't apply to Fulmer? For example, was Delmonico particularly unlikeable... or out of favor with Hamilton? Or, is Fulmer's lack of recent success viewed as a series of unfortunate flukes? In other words, what's the big distinguishing factor, assuming there is one?
Click to expand...

I've got to give you credit . . . We get thread after thread after thread that devolve into the typical "fire Fulmer" stuff. However, you have actually posed a thought provoking question with regard to Fulmer's job status as it relates to the environment in the AD's office. :good!:
 
#12
#12
GAVol said:
It definitely can't be ignored, but it's also an example of using statistics to prove a point you already believe. Someobody on the other side of the argument could just as easily say for instance that in his last 6 meetings with Spurrier and Richt, CPF is 4-2. I don't think anybody except the most delusional homers would really say that CPF owns Spurrier and Richt though; just proves how competitive things are right now.
Click to expand...
agree with that even more.

i don't expect him or UT to have a dominant winning % over these teams/coaches, but it should be a lot closer to .500 over the course of time, if you are truly competitive with the best teams in the league....and thus competing for SEC titles on a somewhat regular basis...which i think has been the sticking point.
 
#13
#13
GAVol said:
I've got to give you credit . . . We get thread after thread after thread that devolve into the typical "fire Fulmer" stuff. However, you have actually posed a thought provoking question with regard to Fulmer's job status as it relates to the environment in the AD's office. :good!:
Click to expand...

Thanks, bro. I'm really not trying to start a flame war. I'm just an interested alum, and there seem to be some pretty knowledgeable people who post here.

Cheers!
 
#14
#14
Sheik Yerbouti said:
But what I'm more interested in is whether the attitude in the athletic department to underperforming coaches is changing generally, or are there some factors that are specific to Delmonico that just don't apply to Fulmer? For example, was Delmonico particularly unlikeable... or out of favor with Hamilton? Or, is Fulmer's lack of recent success viewed as a series of unfortunate flukes? In other words, what's the big distinguishing factor, assuming there is one?
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i think it boils down to one thing...it's baseball. in the grand scheme of things, baseball is no where near as relevant as football. the philosophy used to make the change though, if MH is a consistent leader, would point to a day where he could justify a similar move on CPF.

but, again, at the end of the day, the fan base is not split on delmonico, and no one is going to get upset at the keeping or firing of him. it's basically a no lose situation for MH.

doing the same with CPF at this point, with the football program, has serious consequences. if you fire CPF, you better have one hell of a plan B--cause you run the risk of losing both sides of the fan base...1, you fired the guy they love and wanted to keep. 2, for the ones that wannted him gone, you can't just bring in anybody and satisfy... the guy that is hired after CPF better be a home run.
 
#15
#15
Sheik Yerbouti said:
Oh, cool. I never saw the poll, but that's neat info. It is a slightly different question than I'm asking, however. I mean, I'm personally down for asking the guy to retire at 8-4 (or 9-3 if we have a bad bowl loss).

But what I'm more interested in is whether the attitude in the athletic department to underperforming coaches is changing generally, or are there some factors that are specific to Delmonico that just don't apply to Fulmer? For example, was Delmonico particularly unlikeable... or out of favor with Hamilton? Or, is Fulmer's lack of recent success viewed as a series of unfortunate flukes? In other words, what's the big distinguishing factor, assuming there is one?
Click to expand...

The rumor was Fulmer was instrumental in getting Hamilton hired.

I think its difficult for Hamilton to then ask Fulmer to retire, when Fulmer campaigned to get Hamilton hired.

If thats what your asking.
 
#17
#17
Honeycutt is a possibility. They may also make a run at Corbin from Vandy, though I don't think he would leave right now. Mike Bianco from Ole Miss is another option, but he could be a candidate at LSU (his alma mater). Closer to home, I would say Ray Smith of the Elizabethton Twins might be a good fit (5 league Championships and 6 Coach of the year awards)

However, I think they need to make a serious run at one of the two Rice assistants Mike Taylor (a former Knoxville Blue Jay), or David Pierce. Rice is one of the most consistant and successful programs in the country, and we need some consistancy and success!
 
#19
#19
i don't think that will be an issue when that time comes...whenever that time is....:p
 
#20
#20
rexvol said:
So is Honeycutt the odds on favorite to replace RD?
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If Honeycutt leaves a job as a major league pitching coach to come lead a middle of the pack college program, he falls right behind Billy Donovan on the Idiots List.
 
#21
#21
oklavol said:
The rumor was Fulmer was instrumental in getting Hamilton hired.

I think its difficult for Hamilton to then ask Fulmer to retire, when Fulmer campaigned to get Hamilton hired.

If thats what your asking.
Click to expand...

That is what I was asking, thanks.
 
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