So...I'm Confused...

#1
OrangeBlitz

OrangeBlitz

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#1
Ok. I'm a bit confused here and need some direction on how to be a compliant little VN poster (although I rarely post).

Through most of Butch's tenure on the Hill, I've logged on to read statements about how people are looking for wins. "Butch isn't winning enough," or "He can sure recruit, but he's just not winning," or "Don't give me that 'moral victory' crap, we lost the game."

That last one was especially prevalent during the first three losses of this season. The general feel on the board seemed to be that we were playing good ball for a half and then shutting down. That seems to be a true statement. Now the more negatively minded amongst the faithful here quickly derided anyone that took our boys play as being a bright point. They fell back on the "we're still losing" bandwagon.

So the season progresses and we notch wins against Georgia (then ranked in the Top 20 and holding a 5 year winning streak against us) and South Carolina (for the third year in a row) and, most recently, against lowly North Texas.

Suddenly the story has changed. Now I read that "yes we're getting wins, but their garbage wins," and "we're playing too conservatively," and, to put a current spin on an old favorite, "Fahr Butch!"

It seems that now it doesn't matter if we win, only if we demolish our competition. We beat Georgia but they suck now. We beat SC but they're in transition and also...they suck. We held North Texas scoreless and won by more than 3 scores, but that's irrelevant. We should have won that game by the score of 119-0. Now wins don't matter...only the way we play.

So it can't be both ways...either wins solely matter or efficiency of play solely matters. Can't be both. Is there an explanation here I'm missing?

I was born and raised in Knoxville (I've now relocated to Chatt town) and have been a Vols fan like my father before me, and his father before him, since I could grasp the concept of what a game even was. Do I wish we were enjoying the success that Bama has had for the past 8 years or so? Of course I do. Do I wish we were constantly in the mix for the National Championship? Desperately. Do I wish we consistently dominated all opponents on our schedule? With all my heart.

But...

I also recognize that we're playing better ball than we were before and our record is slowly improving. We're beating SEC teams again and put up a damned good showing against a quality Oklahoma team.

So which is it? Should I hate Butch because he doesn't win enough or should I hate him because he doesn't win convincingly enough?

I know this isn't a new thread, but I'd read all I could take and wanted to vent. I've done that now. Carry on. :hi:
 
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#3
#3
OrangeBlitz said:
Ok. I'm a bit confused here and need some direction on how to be a compliant little VN poster (although I rarely post).

Through most of Butch's tenure on the Hill, I've logged on to read statements about how people are looking for wins. "Butch isn't winning enough," or "He can sure recruit, but he's just not winning," or "Don't give me that 'moral victory' crap, we lost the game."

That last one was especially prevalent during the first three losses of this season. The general feel on the board seemed to be that we were playing good ball for a half and then shutting down. That seems to be a true statement. Now the more negatively minded amongst the faithful here quickly derided anyone that took our boys play as being a bright point. They fell back on the "we're still losing" bandwagon.

So the season progresses and we notch wins against Georgia (then ranked in the Top 20 and holding a 5 year winning streak against us) and South Carolina (for the third year in a row) and, most recently, against lowly North Texas.

Suddenly the story has changed. Now I read that "yes we're getting wins, but their garbage wins," and "we're playing too conservatively," and, to put a current spin on an old favorite, "Fahr Butch!"

It seems that now it doesn't matter if we win, only if we demolish our competition. We beat Georgia but they suck now. We beat SC but they're in transition and also...they suck. We held North Texas scoreless and won by more than 3 scores, but that's irrelevant. We should have won that game by the score of 119-0. Now wins don't matter...only the way we play.

So it can't be both ways...either wins solely matter or efficiency of play solely matters. Can't be both. Is there an explanation here I'm missing?

I was born and raised in Knoxville (I've now relocated to Chatt town) and have been a Vols fan like my father before me, and his father before him, since I could grasp the concept of what a game even was. Do I wish we were enjoying the success that Bama has had for the past 8 years or so? Of course I do. Do I wish we were constantly in the mix for the National Championship? Desperately. Do I wish we consistently dominated all opponents on our schedule? With all my heart.

But...

I also recognize that we're playing better ball than we were before and our record is slowly improving. We're beating SEC teams again and put up a damned good showing against a quality Oklahoma team.

So which is it? Should I hate Butch because he doesn't win enough or should I hate him because he doesn't win convincingly enough?

I know this isn't a new thread, but I'd read all I could take and wanted to vent. I've done that now. Carry on. :hi:
Click to expand...

You hate him because he is not John Gruden...:hi:
 
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#4
#4
Well, it's obvious isn't it? You have to hate Butch because of......of......global warming! No...no.....injustice! No, wait....it's...uh....coach speak.

There, think that cleared it right up for you! You're welcome!
 
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#5
#5
The "Nega-Vols" want MORE and expect MORE and remember a time when coming to Knoxville was not an automatic WIN for many...because they've been winners before.

The "Sunshine Pumpers" are happy to just see some real effort out there and eat LOTS of quinoa and yogurt...and were always the LAST to get picked at kickball, or first to lose @ "Smear The *****"...and want to be part of the "Cool Kids" SOOOO bad...

That about sums it up.../thread.
 
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#7
#7
I'm sure there's some clever turn of phrase that fits this scenario...

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It seems like the ones who are saying the irrational things like "tired of us not scoring 100" are the same ones who refuse to use logic to figure things out.

"Why aren't we where Florida is? We should be competing for the SECCG."

"Butch's coaching is garbage, we need a REAL coach"

The reality of the situation is that it is what it is. UTAD is still paying dooley's buyout. Butch jones also has a buyout. If we were to fire Butch before his buyout contract runs out then we are paying 3 different former coaches, on top of what it's gonna take to bring in a "big time" coach.
 
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#8
#8
This is what gets me, is that the narrative of negativity is always changing to fit the weaknesses of the most recent game, or more likely, weaknesses that are completely imagined.

I understand being critical, but for crying out loud, at least be accurate in your criticism. Negavols I can live, with, but I inaccuvols are the absolute worst.
 
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#11
#11
T16 said:
This is what gets me, is that the narrative of negativity is always changing to fit the weaknesses of the most recent game, or more likely, weaknesses that are completely imagined.

I understand being critical, but for crying out loud, at least be accurate in your criticism. Negavols I can live, with, but I inaccuvols are the absolute worst.
Click to expand...

Inaccuvols. I like that. Should become a new category of VolNation posters.
 
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#12
#12
TAF said:
The "Nega-Vols" want MORE and expect MORE and remember a time when coming to Knoxville was not an automatic WIN for many...because they've been winners before.

The "Sunshine Pumpers" are happy to just see some real effort out there and eat LOTS of quinoa and yogurt...and were always the LAST to get picked at kickball, or first to lose @ "Smear The *****"...and want to be part of the "Cool Kids" SOOOO bad...

That about sums it up.../thread.
Click to expand...

TAF to borrow someone else's words, I think you misremember those days. I remember games where we were flat even in the height of Vol prominence. To say Fulmer was not a conservative coach just couldn't be further from the truth. I think what most of the vocal negative people want is an immediate return to top 5 or top 10 prominence. We all want that and whether you choose to see it or not, we have taken a significant step toward that this year. Could/should we have beat FL, OU or maybe even Bama this year? You can definitely make a sound argument for that. We held a lead into the 4th quarter in all of those games. To argue for the ouster of the coach who has brought us from a period of playing the worst football I have ever seen in my 25 years of watching closely is like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. I have no idea if CBJ will ever win a NC or even an SECC here at UT, but it is really foolish and unfounded to continually bash on this coach and staff. That's not to say that you can't question some of the play calling or question the way he chooses to manage the game, but do it with less hate for the man. He works harder and brings more passion to the game than Majors, Fulmer, Kiffin or Dolley ever did. I can't speak for any era prior because I wasn't a UT fan prior to the Major's era.

In short, it's not as bad as many on here believe and you really need to be careful about what you wish for.

Edit: oh and to your generalization about "sunshine pumpers", I'm assuming you would classify me as one, I pretty much always got picked first for kickball etc... as well as played D1 football in college.... so there is that. My feelings on the so called negavols ( I really hate these labels BTW) is that they are more likely the ones that fell short of sports prominence and have to compensate by living vicariously through the lives of these 18-22 year old men and go overboard in their assessmentts of winning and losing.
 
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#13
#13
It's nice to see a thread where the first page has mostly only posts of sound reasoning. There are so many outspoken negavols on this website that seem to outnumber the quiet majority, sometimes it seems like everyone is a nega

Overall, I think we all as a fan base need to be patient and also supportive for the rest of this season, and until the end of next, before we really make an accurate assessment of where we are with Butch.
 
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#15
#15
OrangeBlitz said:
Ok. I'm a bit confused here and need some direction on how to be a compliant little VN poster (although I rarely post).

Through most of Butch's tenure on the Hill, I've logged on to read statements about how people are looking for wins. "Butch isn't winning enough," or "He can sure recruit, but he's just not winning," or "Don't give me that 'moral victory' crap, we lost the game."

That last one was especially prevalent during the first three losses of this season. The general feel on the board seemed to be that we were playing good ball for a half and then shutting down. That seems to be a true statement. Now the more negatively minded amongst the faithful here quickly derided anyone that took our boys play as being a bright point. They fell back on the "we're still losing" bandwagon.

So the season progresses and we notch wins against Georgia (then ranked in the Top 20 and holding a 5 year winning streak against us) and South Carolina (for the third year in a row) and, most recently, against lowly North Texas.

Suddenly the story has changed. Now I read that "yes we're getting wins, but their garbage wins," and "we're playing too conservatively," and, to put a current spin on an old favorite, "Fahr Butch!"

It seems that now it doesn't matter if we win, only if we demolish our competition. We beat Georgia but they suck now. We beat SC but they're in transition and also...they suck. We held North Texas scoreless and won by more than 3 scores, but that's irrelevant. We should have won that game by the score of 119-0. Now wins don't matter...only the way we play.

So it can't be both ways...either wins solely matter or efficiency of play solely matters. Can't be both. Is there an explanation here I'm missing?

I was born and raised in Knoxville (I've now relocated to Chatt town) and have been a Vols fan like my father before me, and his father before him, since I could grasp the concept of what a game even was. Do I wish we were enjoying the success that Bama has had for the past 8 years or so? Of course I do. Do I wish we were constantly in the mix for the National Championship? Desperately. Do I wish we consistently dominated all opponents on our schedule? With all my heart.

But...

I also recognize that we're playing better ball than we were before and our record is slowly improving. We're beating SEC teams again and put up a damned good showing against a quality Oklahoma team.

So which is it? Should I hate Butch because he doesn't win enough or should I hate him because he doesn't win convincingly enough?

I know this isn't a new thread, but I'd read all I could take and wanted to vent. I've done that now. Carry on. :hi:
Click to expand...

Post more. :salute:
 
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#17
#17
Dragon18 said:
TAF to borrow someone else's words, I think you misremember those days. I remember games where we were flat even in the height of Vol prominence. To say Fulmer was not a conservative coach just couldn't be further from the truth. I think what most of the vocal negative people want is an immediate return to top 5 or top 10 prominence. We all want that and whether you choose to see it or not, we have taken a significant step toward that this year. Could/should we have beat FL, OU or maybe even Bama this year? You can definitely make a sound argument for that. We held a lead into the 4th quarter in all of those games. To argue for the ouster of the coach who has brought us from a period of playing the worst football I have ever seen in my 25 years of watching closely is like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. I have no idea if CBJ will ever win a NC or even an SECC here at UT, but it is really foolish and unfounded to continually bash on this coach and staff. That's not to say that you can't question some of the play calling or question the way he chooses to manage the game, but do it with less hate for the man. He works harder and brings more passion to the game than Majors, Fulmer, Kiffin or Dolley ever did. I can't speak for any era prior because I wasn't a UT fan prior to the Major's era.

In short, it's not as bad as many on here believe and you really need to be careful about what you wish for.

Edit: oh and to your generalization about "sunshine pumpers", I'm assuming you would classify me as one, I pretty much always got picked first for kickball etc... as well as played D1 football in college.... so there is that. My feelings on the so called negavols ( I really hate these labels BTW) is that they are more likely the ones that fell short of sports prominence and have to compensate by living vicariously through the lives of these 18-22 year old men and go overboard in their assessmentts of winning and losing.
Click to expand...

Post even more. :salute:
 
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#18
#18
As stated before, the wins are increasing and that's a good thing. But for most people who pay attention, the way we are winning and losing points to some coaching, development, and scheming deficits that are exposing Butch as a mid level SEC coach who's ceiling is about 9 games. If you're ok with that, OP, then more power to you. Just spare the rest of us the lecture on why we should be better fans and expect less.
 
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#21
#21
fade route said:
As stated before, the wins are increasing and that's a good thing. But for most people who pay attention, the way we are winning and losing points to some coaching, development, and scheming deficits that are exposing Butch as a mid level SEC coach who's ceiling is about 9 games. If you're ok with that, OP, then more power to you. Just spare the rest of us the lecture on why we should be better fans and expect less.
Click to expand...

Fade please tell me specifically what you don't like about our schemes. Be careful not to confuse execution of the schemes with the actual scheme itself and also include an explanation as to why our offensive production is higher than it has been in many years with these schemes that you dislike so much. Oh and saying you prefer a pro set isn't really a solid criticism of the schemes we run in case that was the route you choose to take.
 
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#22
#22
fade route said:
As stated before, the wins are increasing and that's a good thing. But for most people who pay attention, the way we are winning and losing points to some coaching, development, and scheming deficits that are exposing Butch as a mid level SEC coach who's ceiling is about 9 games. If you're ok with that, OP, then more power to you. Just spare the rest of us the lecture on why we should be better fans and expect less.
Click to expand...

You don't have to expect less, just don't expect greatness overnight, guru.
 
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#23
#23
The issue is what Florida is doing. 1st year coach takes them to the SECCG.

We hired Kiffen, we knew there was work to be done, he left.

We hired Dooley, we knew there was work to be done, he was in over his head.

We hired Butch, we knew there was work to be done.

Based off his on the field coaching decisions:

Get passive with lead(run clock out in 3rd qtr).
Not going for two.

Poor use of timeouts(helped bail them out).

Declining penalties.

Then there is the issues with his press conferences and his TV show.

Stop runing the play back and forth while you talk about it.

Coach speak all the time.

6-7 years.

Premeditated anger at negativity.

Saying he takes full responsibility, and then saying that players made mistakes(they did but come on).

Personal issues:

I don't like his hair cut.

To button ,or not to button(top button of polo shirt).

He likes watches.

Personnel choices:

DeBord

Azzani

The bottom line is that some are done with Butch, nothing can change that they feel that way. They think he is in over his head, like Dooley, and every day he stays is one more day we fall farther behind.

I see all that has happened, and believe he is going to take us being a dynasty program.

Go Vols!
 
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#25
#25
Oh man, oh man oh man, back to back all of a sudden we goin to bowl games, back to back bowls just like back in the day. Got all these negavols weighing on my conscience, even though we winning they shoutin nonsense. :cool:
 
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