Six Wins Required to get to a Bowl?

#152
#152
82_VOL_83 said:
Pissing about minor bowls is like pissing about the sky not being the right color of blue. The bowls hurt no one, they bring in money, they give kids an opp to travel, they give non-P5 schools a chance to beat the big boys and brag, and if one doesn't like them one can simply NOT WATCH. PJ I don't understand why this is so hard to get for some folks.
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I'll tell you, it's a lot like people complaining about people complaining. It doesn't have to make sense, it's just people finding stuff to complain about.

Right?

I mean, that is what you're doing, right? Complaining about people complaining?
 
#153
#153
82_VOL_83 said:
No, this time he is right.
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In my experience, that's rarely true. And though there are two equally valid sides to the debate in this particular case, he still managed to be wrong by making a personal attack in the middle of it all.

So he's got that going for him.
 
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#154
#154
OnlyGodForgives said:
I doubt players on a 7-5 team look at an extra month of practices as a gift. The starters might benefit from extra exposure, but I also doubt any tape generated in the insignificant bowls changes many draft situations. Now if the players were employees of the schools and were getting paid for their efforts on the field, then we would be talking legitimate benefits and not the fake kind that involve mental gymnastics and hollering about the wonderful "free education" opportunity upon which most players are unwilling and/or unable to capitalize.
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But they could look at playing another game, the travel to a potentially warm destination or somewhere they've never been. Plus the swag and other benefits. Could have players who have never experienced a bowl who are also excited about it plus bonding with your brothers on a road trip. Can't tell me our players wouldn't love the opportunity to go to a bowl this year and the potential recruiting momentum. It's a win win to get to a bowl.
 
#155
#155
Orangeredblooded said:
Back story here, I remember when my son was 5 and signed up for little league basketball, went to practice one time, then caught pneumonia and was in hospital for a bit. Of course, had to give up the basketball. At the end of season, he was invited to the party for them. I took him, and the coach told me that they had a trophy for him also. I said no, wouldn’t teach him what being competitive is all about. As a mother, it was hard to see him being there and not getting one. I explained it to him after the party. Maybe in hind sight, shouldn’t have taken him to begin with, but that young man to this date, fights and works hard for what he wants. Proud mother here.
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Went back and read this again. I too raised two kids in sports. They played on good teams and really sucky teams. They got trophies at the end and sometimes they were participation trophies. I was able to teach without breaking a little kids heart at 5 years old. 95% of their trophies are in the garbage now. The only thing we kept were the team photos. 5 years old is young to be teaching tough life lessons. I speak also as a proud parent as well as having coached for well over 20 years in multiple sports. After they were up toward 10, 11, or 12, they were playing competitive ball and there were no participation trophies. I agree with PJ here, but not as bluntly.
 
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#156
#156
VFL-82-JP said:
I'll tell you, it's a lot like people complaining about people complaining. It doesn't have to make sense, it's just people finding stuff to complain about.

Right?

I mean, that is what you're doing, right? Complaining about people complaining?
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And you are being a condescending ass right now. PJ is right in a blunt way. Bragging about teaching a 5 year old a life lesson is very much being a helicopter parent. I saw WAY TOO MANY in the years that I coached youth sports. The only thing a 5 year old remembers is that he went to a party and his mom told him he couldn't have his trophy. That trophy would have wound up broken, lost, or in the garbage by the time life lessons rolled around. I know, my kids chucked enough of them away.
 
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#157
#157
OnlyGodForgives said:
I doubt players on a 7-5 team look at an extra month of practices as a gift. The starters might benefit from extra exposure, but I also doubt any tape generated in the insignificant bowls changes many draft situations. Now if the players were employees of the schools and were getting paid for their efforts on the field, then we would be talking legitimate benefits and not the fake kind that involve mental gymnastics and hollering about the wonderful "free education" opportunity upon which most players are unwilling and/or unable to capitalize.
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And you would be figuring out which kids at the school you would get to look in the eye and say "your sport sucks, no one likes it, we are cancelling it because we have to pay the football players even though you are a much better student." And more specifically, the male sports that would get cancelled and the female sports that would stay. UT is already rife with them. Your opinion on this is at best not well thought out.
 
#158
#158
82_VOL_83 said:
And you are being a condescending ass right now. PJ is right in a blunt way. Bragging about teaching a 5 year old a life lesson is very much being a helicopter parent. I saw WAY TOO MANY in the years that I coached youth sports. The only thing a 5 year old remembers is that he went to a party and his mom told him he couldn't have his trophy. That trophy would have wound up broken, lost, or in the garbage by the time life lessons rolled around. I know, my kids chucked enough of them away.
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So I'm a condescending ass, while PJ is "right in a blunt way."

And you're magically capable of reading the mind of the child of a person you never met, years after the event. Mmkay.

You could switch that first comment and make me "right in a blunt way" and him a "condescending ass" and it would all mean exactly the same thing.

Except that we disagree on one point: PJ wasn't right, in any way, during his response to ORB.

Neither are you. Less blunt or not.
 
#159
#159
VFL-82-JP said:
In my experience, that's rarely true. And though there are two equally valid sides to the debate in this particular case, he still managed to be wrong by making a personal attack in the middle of it all.

So he's got that going for him.
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What's rarely true? That PJ isn't right? He is right as much or more than most on here, just comes across rudely most of the time. PJ didn't bring her 5 year old into this, she did. You don't want your story made an example of, don't write it. I've caught plenty of criticism on stories about my two and I don't expect that I have heard the last of them either.

I just gave you a free shot above, go for it.
 
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#161
#161
VFL-82-JP said:
So I'm a condescending ass, while PJ is "right in a blunt way."

And you're magically capable of reading the mind of the child of a person you never met, years after the event. Mmkay.

You could switch that first comment and make me "right in a blunt way" and him a "condescending ass" and it would all mean exactly the same thing.

Except that we disagree on one point: PJ wasn't right, in any way, during his response to ORB.

Neither are you. Less blunt or not.
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The difference between you and I, is that I do have that experience with kids from T-Ball through College Lacrosse. I have seen kids disappointed that they didn't get that trophy and happy as hell that they did. Trophies from T-Ball or the B-Ball equivalent don't mean ANYTHING by the time they are 8 or 9. By the time they get to that age, they are bragging about beating someone's ass or are still picking clover in the outfield.

PJ is right, and none of your condescension will make any difference. This isn't a refrigerator door Forum, it's a public forum. Grow a thicker skin.
 
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#163
#163
82_VOL_83 said:
What's rarely true? That PJ isn't right? He is right as much or more than most on here, just comes across rudely most of the time. PJ didn't bring her 5 year old into this, she did. You don't want your story made an example of, don't write it. I've caught plenty of criticism on stories about my two and I don't expect that I have heard the last of them either.

I just gave you a free shot above, go for it.
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I'm not interested in attacking you or your kids.

But I'm also not forgetting that PJ, a moderator on this site, who is ostensibly moderate in his treatment of others here (what else is a moderator, if not at least that?), initiated a personal attack on another VN.com member, without provocation. You want to laud his merits, carry on. I certainly won't be joining you.

And if you want to find me condescending for not forgetting what he did, I'll try to live with that.
 
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#164
#164
82_VOL_83 said:
The difference between you and I, is that I do have that experience with kids from T-Ball through College Lacrosse. I have seen kids disappointed that they didn't get that trophy and happy as hell that they did. Trophies from T-Ball or the B-Ball equivalent don't mean ANYTHING by the time they are 8 or 9. By the time they get to that age, they are bragging about beating someone's ass or are still picking clover in the outfield.

PJ is right, and none of your condescension will make any difference. This isn't a refrigerator door Forum, it's a public forum. Grow a thicker skin.
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So, tell me. Since you think we're different in that way, tell me about my experiences with children and sports. Tell me what sports I've coached, and played, and at what ages and levels.

You clearly know, or you wouldn't be able to say it's a difference between us. So go on: who am I?


p.s. Who ever said I had thin skin? Do I sound aggrieved or hurt by you?
 
#165
#165
82_VOL_83 said:
Not sure PJ has that ability.



:):):)

Edit: And, I am pretty much a dick and know it and don't care.
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Ah, something we are beginning to agree upon. :)

EDIT: Okay, okay, that was an unfair shot. But man, you painted the bullseye, you pinned it to your own back, and then you turned so we could all see it full-on. I fell to the extreme temptation, heh. My apologies if it hurt your feelings.
 
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#166
#166
VFL-82-JP said:
I'm not interested in attacking you or your kids.

But I'm also not forgetting that PJ, a moderator on this site, who is ostensibly moderate in his treatment of others here (what else is a moderator, if not at least that?), initiated a personal attack on another VN.com member, without provocation. You want to laud his merits, carry on. I certainly won't be joining you.

And if you want to find me condescending for not forgetting what he did, I'll try to live with that.
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He didn't initiate a personal attack, he commented on a mom bragging about teaching a 5 year old life lessons. Not sure where you are in the kid raising phase, but you don't teach 5 year olds life lessons by taking them to a party and then letting everyone else get a trophy but them.

Your chiding PJ for not being "nice" as a moderator is foolish and will get you nowhere. You became condescending. For the record, I read 99% of what you write and agree with the opinions 99.9% of the time. Your delivery here was just off putting.
 
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#167
#167
82_VOL_83 said:
He didn't initiate a personal attack, he commented on a mom bragging about teaching a 5 year old life lessons. Not sure where you are in the kid raising phase, but you don't teach 5 year olds life lessons by taking them to a party and then letting everyone else get a trophy but them.

Your chiding PJ for not being "nice" as a moderator is foolish and will get you nowhere. You became condescending. For the record, I read 99% of what you write and agree with the opinions 99.9% of the time. Your delivery here was just off putting.
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It gets my hackles up to see someone treat another person poorly. Especially unprovoked. MOST especially if that person is supposed to be keeping things moderate among the rest of us. PJ was wrong on multiple levels.

That's why I'm chiding PJ.

As for you not knowing where I am in the kid raising phase, in an earlier post you sounded very sure of my status, sure enough to describe how you and I are different. Were you wrong, then?
 
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#168
#168
82_VOL_83 said:
Went back and read this again. I too raised two kids in sports. They played on good teams and really sucky teams. They got trophies at the end and sometimes they were participation trophies. I was able to teach without breaking a little kids heart at 5 years old. 95% of their trophies are in the garbage now. The only thing we kept were the team photos. 5 years old is young to be teaching tough life lessons. I speak also as a proud parent as well as having coached for well over 20 years in multiple sports. After they were up toward 10, 11, or 12, they were playing competitive ball and there were no participation trophies. I agree with PJ here, but not as bluntly.
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Fair enough, like said in a later post, I wasn’t a perfect parent and I don’t know of one either. We all make decisions at any given moment that we hope is the right one.
 
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#170
#170
Orangeredblooded said:
Fair enough, like said in a later post, I wasn’t a perfect parent and I don’t know of one either. We all make decisions at any given moment that we hope is the right one.
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This I will agree with. My two kids were very different. One wouldn't have cared about the trophy at 5 and the other would have. By the time they were 8 and 10 they were competing against each other (generally for who could be the biggest jerk) and those trophies were long gone. I err'd on the side of just giving them the dang things and then teaching them about winning and losing and trying to do both gracefully.
 
#172
#172
VFL-82-JP said:
Ah, something we are beginning to agree upon. :)

EDIT: Okay, okay, that was an unfair shot. But man, you painted the bullseye, you pinned it to your own back, and then you turned so we could all see it full-on. I fell to the extreme temptation, heh. My apologies if it hurt your feelings.
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Oh no, very little here hurts my feelings. When you hand out as much **** as I do, you have to expect to receive it back 10 fold.
 
#175
#175
I'm old school. I can remember when bowl games actually meant something. There were very few bowls, and the teams invited to them were the top teams in the nation. Of course this was before the days of handing out participation tophies for mediocrity. Oh, how times have changed...for the worse.
 
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