Simple solution to a perplexing problem?

[sjt18]

agreed, that's why it's a guess. otherwise, aside from the saving him from so many hits, you'd have to think they'd implement the zone read more often.

i do think there's something to the offensive game plan to start the game. i do think they have a script of sorts.

but really, i can't explain it. just throwing darts. cause you're right, this offense doesn't take off until he becomes a legit threat.

Another thing while my mind is racing on Monday morning... how does UT NOT get a ton of yardage on QB draws? Every team with a mobile QB schemes the middle of the field open... but I haven't seen UT even try. Trips to the wide side, split to the short side, motion the RB out.... there shouldn't be anything but grass behind the DL, right?

 

[JC61]

Just checked. For the year, Dobbs has (including sacks):

- minus 2 yds on 11 attempts in the 1st quarter,
- 93 on 18 attempts in the 2nd,
- 74 on 22 attempts in the 3rd,
- and 94 on just 12 attempts in the 4th.

I believe around 40 of those 2nd qtr yds came in the closing drivers vs UF and UGA.

a. hard to completely disagree looking at the numbers...but this offense is designed to create mismatches / opportunities...and take advantage when they're there.

b. how bout do your job, ie. catch the freakin' ball when it hits you in the hands, never a good idea to fumble and the OL has to continue to improve.

c. Dobbs is doing better throwing the ball so far this year...but see b. Also would like to see more off tackle runs by Hurd...various points in all games it appeared to be there and he can do more damage against DBs v. running into the teeth of the D.

d. appears this team is in much better shape than their opponents thus far, which may be part of the cause and effect to the improved performance later in games. Could be one reason why a works as the game progresses.

 

[billford]

I haven't gone back through the videos but it seems that Dobbs doesn't run much in the 1st half.

IMHO, that could be all there is to the "slow starts". Just call the read option early, put the opposing D on their heels, then run the rest of the game plan.

In my opinion they are trying to make Dobbs something he isn't. A drop back passer. That's not Dobbs. I think he has hand cuffs on so to speak til it's go time. Then he does what he does best. Make plays on the fly.

 

[sjt18]

b. how bout do your job, ie. catch the freakin' ball when it hits you in the hands, never a good idea to fumble and the OL has to continue to improve.

c. Dobbs is doing better throwing the ball so far this year...but see b.

Too many of you try to absolve Dobbs of his part in the inconsistent pass game. Dobbs has improved but he STILL locates the ball poorly at times. At least three of the first 5 drops vs UF were poorly thrown balls. Besides the pick vs UGA, there was another that should have been picked that Dobbs left behind a receiver on a crossing pattern.

Receivers absolutely have to make plays on catchable balls.... but Dobbs can make many of those balls MUCH more catchable.

 

[sjt18]

In my opinion they are trying to make Dobbs something he isn't. A drop back passer. That's not Dobbs. I think he has hand cuffs on so to speak til it's go time. Then he does what he does best. Make plays on the fly.

You're not completely wrong.... but Dobbs seems to become a MUCH better drop back passer after he starts running. Maybe it calms him down?

 

[jakez4ut]

Another thing while my mind is racing on Monday morning... how does UT NOT get a ton of yardage on QB draws? Every team with a mobile QB schemes the middle of the field open... but I haven't seen UT even try. Trips to the wide side, split to the short side, motion the RB out.... there shouldn't be anything but grass behind the DL, right?

not sure. we have run some draws, but out of some different formations. i'll say this, we've seen Dobbs be very physical in the run game, especially in the red zone.

as for the motioning out, it did set up the 1 TD against FL and almost another one against GA.

i think we've all seen it this year, one thing we're going to have to see change is getting him more involved earlier. i don't know how many times it's happened all year, but against VT, FL and GA, our 1st possession generally hasn't lasted very long. got to find a way to get 1st downs early in the game. we do that, then we may see a different story the rest of the game.

let's face it, until we get healthier on defense, one of the things CBJ and co, now have to consider is protecting the defense....early in games, we give up big plays and don't stop the run.

 

[jakez4ut]

Too many of you try to absolve Dobbs of his part in the inconsistent pass game. Dobbs has improved but he STILL locates the ball poorly at times. At least three of the first 5 drops vs UF were poorly thrown balls. Besides the pick vs UGA, there was another that should have been picked that Dobbs left behind a receiver on a crossing pattern.

Receivers absolutely have to make plays on catchable balls.... but Dobbs can make many of those balls MUCH more catchable.

i don't disagree, but all in all, he's looked a lot better throwing the ball this year, than any year prior.

convert drops in to catches, and his completion % takes a nice step up, and those catches keep drives going....the drops stalled them out, so who knows how some of those 1st half drives pan out had we been able to possess the ball longer.

 

[VolAllen]

A max protect fade with Jennings or Malone against a DB on an island make sense too.... even if picked... you've basically punted.

This right here. I've always wondered why they don't just take a shot downfield on 4th down if they're out of FG range. Throw the deep ball and take a chance of scoring or throwing a pick inside the 10 and making the tackle. It would kill your QBR if picked often, but who cares. It would probably work more often than not.

 

[jakez4ut]

This right here. I've always wondered why they don't just take a shot downfield on 4th down if they're out of FG range. Throw the deep ball and take a chance of scoring or throwing a pick inside the 10 and making the tackle. It would kill your QBR if picked often, but who cares. It would probably work more often than not.

you could also get a PI possibly.

i don't know though. field position in a 3 point game would mean a lot in that situation. i'm not sure i'd take the chance on 4th down giving them only a half a field to go, w/a TO left and over a minute to go.

there are other higher % plays we could run, even out of hte run game, on 1st down, that would maybe help us get in to a 2nd and/or 3rd and manageable situation.

 

[sjt18]

i don't disagree, but all in all, he's looked a lot better throwing the ball this year, than any year prior.

convert drops in to catches, and his completion % takes a nice step up, and those catches keep drives going....the drops stalled them out, so who knows how some of those 1st half drives pan out had we been able to possess the ball longer.

Dobbs is much better throwing the ball than he's been. They're opening up more of the field to him as well.... though not all of it. I just think some tend to blame the receivers alone when a good portion goes to Dobbs' ball placement.

I still believe that the next QB will get to use more of the field due to being more consistently accurate "inside the strike zone".

 

[jakez4ut]

Dobbs is much better throwing the ball than he's been. They're opening up more of the field to him as well.... though not all of it. I just think some tend to blame the receivers alone when a good portion goes to Dobbs' ball placement.

I still believe that the next QB will get to use more of the field due to being more consistently accurate "inside the strike zone".

there's plenty of blame to go around. Dobbs has missed guys that were wide open...badly so i get where you're coming from. and WR's/TE's have had crucial drops, so it goes both ways.

as to the next qb, as much as i do love Dobbs...i think JG is the real deal. things should be looking bright going forward. there's no reason not to continue to be excited about him.

 

[VolAllen]

you could also get a PI possibly.

i don't know though. field position in a 3 point game would mean a lot in that situation. i'm not sure i'd take the chance on 4th down giving them only a half a field to go, w/a TO left and over a minute to go.

there are other higher % plays we could run, even out of hte run game, on 1st down, that would maybe help us get in to a 2nd and/or 3rd and manageable situation.

Honestly though, when we punted on 4th and 5 or whatever at midfield I was pissed. I knew GA could go the distance, eat up all the time, and leave us no shot at redemption. I would have rather Dobbs kept the ball attempting to pick up a first, or turnover on downs and give it to them midfield. We were up by 4, so they had to score a TD. I hate giving a good team that much grass to work with with a minute and change to go.

 

[RollerVol]

Let me give you my opinion. It's cbj's philosophy to be and stay conservative until you force him to do otherwise. He wants to run the ball and use play action as much and as long as possible, utilize safe passes ( wr screens and rb to the flats we love so much ), only utilize the full pass game on 3rd and obvious pass downs, play sound defense, and utilize special teams. To sum all this up, he believes our discipline and conservative play call execution is better than the opposing teams discipline and execution ( wether conservative or aggressive ). He wants to first test the opposing team and see if they will ( through penalties and turnovers ) give the game away. He only opens up the offense ( mainly by opening up the passing game, you know, throwing on first and second down - non play action ) if we get behind. As soon as we get the lead or within 3, he tends to go back conservative offensively, lean on the defense and special teams, and test the opposing team to see if they will give the game away through turnovers and penalties.

It's a very conservative philosophy, but so far so good in his tenure here.

Go Vols!

so short and sweet is...Fulmerized option spread?

GO VOLS!

 

[zjcvols]

Maybe our wideouts need to catch the ball and our NFL backs not fumble when we have great field position and our one yard away from the end zone but what do I know

 

[zjcvols]

It's really dumb how many people are *****ing about the play calling in the first half the last two weeks when it's about the players not executing.

 

[McDad]

I haven't gone back through the videos but it seems that Dobbs doesn't run much in the 1st half.

IMHO, that could be all there is to the "slow starts". Just call the read option early, put the opposing D on their heels, then run the rest of the game plan.

I agree. It Looks like the defense is playing disciplined in the first half. The defensive end is mostly playing containment and the safeties are not creeping up to the line. We run run have the short pass and do those things which tests their discipline. Also begins to wear them down. when the the DE loosens up and becomes aggressive and/or the safety creeps up to the line we begin to exploit that with Dobb's running ability. What makes no sense to me is that late in the fourth quarter when we need a first down to ice the game, Dobbs never keeps it. That seems to be the biggest brain fart of them all. He is our best runner, it is a very conservative play and it's better than what we're currently doing.

 

[CAVPUT]

If we weren't devastated by injuries, I'd be hugely in favor of the idea of running him more in the first half. Given we are falling like flies this year, I hope we can keep him in one piece and on the field through the next two games. Know we have to accept life without Dobbs at some point, but I'm in no hurry. Lose him and I'd have to think our season goes up in smoke. Hope they pick his spots carefully.

 

[JC61]

Too many of you try to absolve Dobbs of his part in the inconsistent pass game. Dobbs has improved but he STILL locates the ball poorly at times. At least three of the first 5 drops vs UF were poorly thrown balls. Besides the pick vs UGA, there was another that should have been picked that Dobbs left behind a receiver on a crossing pattern.

Receivers absolutely have to make plays on catchable balls.... but Dobbs can make many of those balls MUCH more catchable.

not absolving Dobbs and have been quite critical of him in the past...and would definitely like to see him leading receivers more....but he is doing somewhat better so far this year. Point is...if it hits you in the hands, you should catch it...at least that's the way I recall it.

 

[TNnative]

I haven't gone back through the videos but it seems that Dobbs doesn't run much in the 1st half.

IMHO, that could be all there is to the "slow starts". Just call the read option early, put the opposing D on their heels, then run the rest of the game plan.

If Dobbs runs for big gains all night long, what happens when we try to recruit receivers?

Statistics don't mean much when the game is happening. All we want is to win. But they mean plenty once we leave the stadium. Especially when NSD comes around, and HS and JUCO receivers want to go somewhere they can show off their talents to NFL scouts.

That is why Dobbs is not running as much. It is not why we have "slow starts". That has been due to early mental errors. Thankfully, the team that makes the fewest mistakes wins, and so far this year, that team has been Tennessee.But it is important our guys fix these problems now, because A&M will give them all they can handle.

 

[jakez4ut]

If Dobbs runs for big gains all night long, what happens when we try to recruit receivers?

Statistics don't mean much when the game is happening. All we want is to win. But they mean plenty once we leave the stadium. Especially when NSD comes around, and HS and JUCO receivers want to go somewhere they can show off their talents to NFL scouts.

That is why Dobbs is not running as much. It is not why we have "slow starts". That has been due to early mental errors. Thankfully, the team that makes the fewest mistakes wins, and so far this year, that team has been Tennessee.But it is important our guys fix these problems now, because A&M will give them all they can handle.

you don't go in to a game, wtih a game plan, with the only goal being "how recruits perceive things". the only goal is to win the game.

if anything, the winning, who we're beating, being a top ten, relevant program will help recruiting infinitely more than "looking good".

further, wait til April and draft comes around. that'll also help with the perception. but as to what happens in the games, how we call plays....has nothing to do, specifically, with impressing a recruit. the sum of the parts do. what we're doing this year is validating the sell.

 

[volsportsfan]

so short and sweet is...Fulmerized option spread?

GO VOLS!

Kind of. When Cut was here our offense was not near as conservative as we are now. When Cut left and the offense began to suck, fulmer went conservative, which he should have because Chavis and the defense were our strengths then. Fulmers downfall was that he never could find an adequate replacement for David Cutcliffe

 

[jakez4ut]

Kind of. When Cut was here our offense was not near as conservative as we are now. When Cut left and the offense began to suck, fulmer went conservative, which he should have because Chavis and the defense were our strengths then. Fulmers downfall was that he never could find an adequate replacement for David Cutcliffe

yep, and to pile on i guess, Fulmer was a bit of a control freak. he wasn't going to just hand the reigns over and let a new OC go. he very much had his hands in the offense.

 

[sjt18]

It's really dumb how many people are *****ing about the play calling in the first half the last two weeks when it's about the players not executing.

And it is flat out stupid to deny the reality that when Dobbs runs by design the O moves.... and when he doesn't.... it doesn't.

 

[sjt18]

If we weren't devastated by injuries, I'd be hugely in favor of the idea of running him more in the first half. Given we are falling like flies this year, I hope we can keep him in one piece and on the field through the next two games. Know we have to accept life without Dobbs at some point, but I'm in no hurry. Lose him and I'd have to think our season goes up in smoke. Hope they pick his spots carefully.

UT has had the wrong guys get injured but IIRC they have had significantly fewer players miss games than the last two years.

 

[sjt18]

If Dobbs runs for big gains all night long, what happens when we try to recruit receivers?

First, that's not what anyone said. What we said is that the O including the passing game goes better when Dobbs is a threat to run... by design. Second, what good are players if you don't optimize their abilities so you win? Third, Bama and plenty of other run first teams.... still get 5* WR's.

Statistics don't mean much when the game is happening. All we want is to win. But they mean plenty once we leave the stadium. Especially when NSD comes around, and HS and JUCO receivers want to go somewhere they can show off their talents to NFL scouts.

So you are suggesting that it is OK to lose.... and post bad statistics.... as long as that can somehow be spun into a "WR friendly" offense?

That is why Dobbs is not running as much. It is not why we have "slow starts". That has been due to early mental errors. Thankfully, the team that makes the fewest mistakes wins, and so far this year, that team has been Tennessee.But it is important our guys fix these problems now, because A&M will give them all they can handle.

Of all the available possibilities.... the one least likely is that Jones is risking losses to make recruits "feel good" about UT.

Recruits.... want to win.