Simms, Bad Play Calling , and Another Thing or Two

[majic73]

Uh, maybe he was forgotten because we don't have a great freshman TE. Who are you talking about?

I am sorry ..I was referring to Rivera who is a junior. Got all confruzed because he is a newbie

 

[VegasVol]

Yeah, Rob Spence clearly would have been much better. How did his 2008 season go?

Spence wasn't the one who MH wouldn't open the checkbook for. The only checkbook options were Clawson and Spence as set by MH.

 

[VegasVol]

I highly doubt the Michigan guys made more in their subsequent gigs than Clawson got at UT.

Debord would have cost around $500K; he went to the NFL instead. Loeffler also took an NFL job, then went to Florida where he makes about $240K as QB coach. Clawson & Scott together made $490K. So, Debord/Loeffler would have cost more than Clawson/Scott.

 

[VegasVol]

Either A) that's not true or B) Fulmer's own salary was the reason he couldn't... and that is no defense for Fulmer.

Wrong on both counts; MH didn't want to open up the check-book, pure and simple, for assistants at that time. This is no big secret.

 

[VegasVol]

I'm not exactly sure how that matters at all since A) he's no longer at La Tech and B) he has a different OC who has proven his worth many times over.

How has Chaney "proven his worth" many times over? Nobody who knows Tiller well think Chaney actually called any plays at Purdue any more than he called plays under Kiffin. His NFL time was as a TE coach, not a coordinator. And, by the "What Do Athletic Directors Think" standard, he went begging and couldn't get a HC job anywhere, including lowly UNLV.

 

[kptvol]

Spence wasn't the one who MH wouldn't open the checkbook for. The only checkbook options were Clawson and Spence as set by MH.

Perhaps you could enlighten us. The way both of those guys worked out along with Randy Sanders tells you what you need to know about Fulmer choosing an OC other than the one Majors got for him.

 

[kptvol]

Debord would have cost around $500K; he went to the NFL instead. Loeffler also took an NFL job, then went to Florida where he makes about $240K as QB coach. Clawson & Scott together made $490K. So, Debord/Loeffler would have cost more than Clawson/Scott.

DeBord went to the NFL as an assistant OL coach. I'm sure he was making 500 grand with that gig.

 

[kptvol]

How has Chaney "proven his worth" many times over? Nobody who knows Tiller well think Chaney actually called any plays at Purdue any more than he called plays under Kiffin. His NFL time was as a TE coach, not a coordinator. And, by the "What Do Athletic Directors Think" standard, he went begging and couldn't get a HC job anywhere, including lowly UNLV.

Guess what Mike DeBord, Fulmer's savior, is currently doing.

 

[lego126]

Finally -- Dooley's QB decisions generally stunk at La Tech and there's no reason they'll get better now.

I'm not gonna' disagree with anything about Simms prior to his tenure here at UT, but remember, this deck was stacked BEFORE DD was hired.

We cut a pretty big check for Clawson and gave Chavis a big raise after 2 pathetic defensive seasons. We had money to get an OC. Fulmer couldn't identify one worth paying.

You really believe Fulmer couldn't identify a good OC? :ermm: MH knew if he hired who Fulmer wanted, Fulmer might suceed and we couldn't have that. He made sure Fulmer had a second rate OC.

 

[Tampavolz]

When the QB cannot get the ball out in the flats or up the feild, this is poor play calling. It's not like he didn't see this same floating duck type passes in practice.

I think he was limiting his play book in anticipation of Florida,,, but if he did it was obvious.

Austin rogers dropped a comeback on third down with 3 minutes left in the half.

We also called screen passes.

I have watched the game 3 times now and just do not see how you can say the play calling was poor.

They stacked the box, we had some missed blocking assignments on passing downs but simms just looked like a kid who was unable to get a single start at louisville.

We had wide open wrs and wide open te's on lots of plays...simms did not get the ball to them.

Simms is not treated like crompton was at first. He is supposed to make reads over the whole field and choose the best option. Not the coaches fault that he is not doing it well.
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[KB5252]

I'm not gonna' disagree with anything about Simms prior to his tenure here at UT, but remember, this deck was stacked BEFORE DD was hired.



You really believe Fulmer couldn't identify a good OC? :ermm: MH knew if he hired who Fulmer wanted, Fulmer might suceed and we couldn't have that. He made sure Fulmer had a second rate OC.

Please explain to me how MH sabotaged the OC choice for Fulmer because I'm not familiar with this one.

 

[lego126]

i think your pretty much spot on. everyone says we are finally getting out of the same tennessee football we have seen for years. if you think about it we had johhny majors for 14 or so years then 17 years of fulmer (pretty much the same play book) but chaney runs a pro style that isint very radical or inventive.

i think we hounestly need to consider (if dooley doesint work out after several years) of hiring a spread offensive coach. we all know that the spread makes it so that teams who dont have the BEST talent can compeate and win against power running teams (alabama). that offense only works when you have supirior talent. look at how much auburn improved with gus M taking over. he took the same players and team that had one of the worste offenses in the country and went to the spread and "fun and gun " offense and is now being talked about being a darkhorse sec west champion.

we really are not seeing anything different than what we have seen for the past 30 years. pro style is good for some teams but the state of tennessee football and our talent and having our state not filled with much talent, i think the future for us to be competative again we need to totaly shake up our offensive philosophy and get a inavative spread playbook..

Chaney's offensive style is not the problem, lack of experienced players on the field is the problem. I think DD and Chaney are doing pretty well with the players that Kitten and Fulmer prepared for them.

 

[sjt18]

Wrong on both counts; MH didn't want to open up the check-book, pure and simple, for assistants at that time. This is no big secret.

Well... it must be a secret to some because people here that have repeatedly demonstrated that they know what they're talking about and have reliable sources within the AD... haven't said that.

 

[kptvol]

You really believe Fulmer couldn't identify a good OC? :ermm: MH knew if he hired who Fulmer wanted, Fulmer might suceed and we couldn't have that. He made sure Fulmer had a second rate OC.

What evidence is there that he could? He got Cutcliffe from Majors. Then he hired Randy Sanders and let him hang around and do so badly for so long the man's children were in danger. Next, he rehired Majors' guy that openly admitted he was a short term coach. Finally, he went after Rob Spence. Total disaster there, if you'll recall what he did with a very talented Clemson offense in 2008. He also allegedly looked at Mike DeBord. He was so impressive he helped get an NC winning coach fired and could only find work as an assistant offensive line coach afterward. We all know how Clawson worked out.

To recap:
Sanders - fail
Spence - fail
DeBord - fail
Clawson - fail

 

[kptvol]

Please explain to me how MH sabotaged the OC choice for Fulmer because I'm not familiar with this one.

Apparently we didn't have enough money to pay our OC 300,000+ and then pay our overrated, fresh off the worst 2 year defensive run in UT history, an equal salary.

 

[tm3]

Apparently we didn't have enough money to pay our OC 300,000+ and then pay our overrated, fresh off the worst 2 year defensive run in UT history, an equal salary.

iirc both chavis and cut were being paid north of $300k.

regardless, the financial issue is always interesting.

both UT and UF got new DCs in the 90's. UF pulled bob stoops from KS and paid him $480k. UT promoted chavis from within and paid him $120k.

bit of a difference in philosophy there, and a bit of a difference in direction for both programs since.

 

[VegasVol]

Perhaps you could enlighten us. The way both of those guys worked out along with Randy Sanders tells you what you need to know about Fulmer choosing an OC other than the one Majors got for him.

Fulmer hired Cut for OC, not Majors. (FYI: Majors hired Randy Sanders as well for the program, in case you missed it.) You're not really lunatic enough to cite Johnny Majors as a source? How many times did Majors have SEC offenses in the top-3rd of the SEC in back-to-back years before Fulmer took over the offense? Try zero.

 

[VegasVol]

Guess what Mike DeBord, Fulmer's savior, is currently doing.

TE coach for Mike Martz. Debord, though, has been a play-calling coordinator, unlike Chaney.

FYI: Debord wasn't the top target in 2008, so you can quit obsessing now.

 

[VegasVol]

Please explain to me how MH sabotaged the OC choice for Fulmer because I'm not familiar with this one.

Wouldn't cut a check for any proven OC, period. All the established ones wanted a bigger payday b/c of concern of Fulmer's tenure. He didn't open up that checkbook until Kiffy came to town, and suddenly and radically reversed course.

Remember -- Hamilton wanted to fire Fulmer after just the 2nd game of the year and began the work to do so; it was based solely on not winning SEC titles and the brand of Tennessee not being "cool" enough for Hamilton's p.r. preferences rather than the poor season of 2008 as a whole. The entire $6M buyout -- pitched to Fulmer as job security -- was really just a cheap bribe out in Hamilton's mind as he had always intended to get rid of Fulmer as soon as any opening occurred to do so -- hence firing him before homecoming, rather than just waiting until the end of the season.

 

[VegasVol]

What evidence is there that he could? He got Cutcliffe from Majors. Then he hired Randy Sanders and let him hang around and do so badly for so long the man's children were in danger. Next, he rehired Majors' guy that openly admitted he was a short term coach. Finally, he went after Rob Spence. Total disaster there, if you'll recall what he did with a very talented Clemson offense in 2008. He also allegedly looked at Mike DeBord. He was so impressive he helped get an NC winning coach fired and could only find work as an assistant offensive line coach afterward. We all know how Clawson worked out.

To recap:
Sanders - fail
Spence - fail
DeBord - fail
Clawson - fail

He got Sanders from Majors, too, so quit trying that nonsense.

Why? Because Fulmer himself set records as an OC at Tennessee; because it was Fulmer who elevated Cutcliffe, not Majors; because Sanders "horrid" offenses placed in the top-3rd of the SEC (twice without NFL talent at QB or RB) twice in his six-year tenure; because bringing back Cut (against the claims of many of the kiddies on this board) was dead right; and because the OC he was looking at had been successful and likely would have here.

 

[VegasVol]

iirc both chavis and cut were being paid north of $300k.

regardless, the financial issue is always interesting.

both UT and UF got new DCs in the 90's. UF pulled bob stoops from KS and paid him $480k. UT promoted chavis from within and paid him $120k.

bit of a difference in philosophy there, and a bit of a difference in direction for both programs since.

Both Dickey and Hamilton refused to cut checks for assistants, which was an ongoing problem before Hamilton admitted the error, but only after he had got rid of Fulmer.

 

[TN4Ever]

LOL. That is sooo true!

 

[kptvol]

He got Sanders from Majors, too, so quit trying that nonsense.

Why? Because Fulmer himself set records as an OC at Tennessee; because it was Fulmer who elevated Cutcliffe, not Majors; because Sanders "horrid" offenses placed in the top-3rd of the SEC (twice without NFL talent at QB or RB) twice in his six-year tenure; because bringing back Cut (against the claims of many of the kiddies on this board) was dead right; and because the OC he was looking at had been successful and likely would have here.

And? Sanders was pretty good as an assistant. Elevating him to OC was the problem. Fulmer elevated Cutcliffe, he didn't find him. We saw what happened when he went forth to find his own assistants.

 

[kptvol]

Remember -- Hamilton wanted to fire Fulmer after just the 2nd game of the year and began the work to do so; it was based solely on not winning SEC titles and the brand of Tennessee not being "cool" enough for Hamilton's p.r. preferences rather than the poor season of 2008 as a whole. The entire $6M buyout -- pitched to Fulmer as job security -- was really just a cheap bribe out in Hamilton's mind as he had always intended to get rid of Fulmer as soon as any opening occurred to do so -- hence firing him before homecoming, rather than just waiting until the end of the season.

The decision to fire Fulmer was made before it was announced. The announcement was pushed forward after the humiliation at the hands of South Carolina.

 

[kptvol]

TE coach for Mike Martz. Debord, though, has been a play-calling coordinator, unlike Chaney.

FYI: Debord wasn't the top target in 2008, so you can quit obsessing now.

I asked you who all these awesome OCs were that Fulmer wanted but couldn't get. You listed DeBord. The idea that we couldn't afford him is just wrong. Perhaps you could provide the name of this offensive genius Hamilton wasn't willing to pay.