Similariaties between Tampa 2 and "Mustang"

#1
BYUVol

BYUVol

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#1
So I have seen alot of people complaining about Chavis' 3rd down defense (myself one of them.) But my concern is that it uses the same principles of the Tampa 2, rushing with only D-lineman, and sitting back in coverage.

Do you think it is simply a problem of execution, and that Monte will be able to teach it better, or is there a fundamental difference I am not seeing?
 
#2
#2
There is a similarity in the fact that both focus on keeping plays in front of you and not getting beat deep. But you are incorrect in your assumption that the Tampa 2 system only sends DL after the QB. Part of what Monte Kiffin is known for is coming up with some very successful blitz packages out of his defense. He puts pressure on the QB.
 
#3
#3
therickbol said:
There is a similarity in the fact that both focus on keeping plays in front of you and not getting beat deep. But you are incorrect in your assumption that the Tampa 2 system only sends DL after the QB. Part of what Monte Kiffin is known for is coming up with some very successful blitz packages out of his defense. He puts pressure on the QB.
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Thanks, I have never followed Tampa Bay, mostly an AFC guy.

I just read wikipedia and it said the Tampa 2 rushed with the linemen, and had the linebackers covering slot receivers and backs.
 
#4
#4
A common misconception with the Tampa 2 and Monte Kiffin is that he only runs this defense, and doesn't stray from it. The Tampa 2 is the base defense that Kiff runs, but he has a great ability to scheme for teams that the Bucs are up against. He is thought of as a genius in the NFL for creating defenses with odd blitz schemes. The base cover 2 does have linebackers covering "areas" near the slots and tight ends with an emphasis on the DL getting a good push, but Monte will draw up ways to get pressure elsewhere.

The Tampa 2 also relies on defenders flying to the ball, yet beforehand being committed to staying in their assigned zone. One thing about a Monte Kiffin defense is when a pass is completed next year, you WILL see about 5-6 orange jersey's around the receiver.
 
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#5
#5
To be successful in the Tampa 2 you need to have three outstanding athletes at three different positions:

DT or DE - In the SEC it is better to have the DT

MLB - Think Derrick Brooks

SS - Think John Lynch and at UT Eric Berry
 
#6
#6
The mustang package is a package with 5 DB's 2 LB's and four down linemen. It is nothing like the Tampa 2.
 
#7
#7
therickbol said:
There is a similarity in the fact that both focus on keeping plays in front of you and not getting beat deep. But you are incorrect in your assumption that the Tampa 2 system only sends DL after the QB. Part of what Monte Kiffin is known for is coming up with some very successful blitz packages out of his defense. He puts pressure on the QB.
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I am not expert on the Tampa 2, but Frank Wycheck said on 104.5 the zone a week or so ago that the Tampa 2 did rely on just the fron 4 for QB pressure. He said the system works very well provided you have guys on the Defensive line such as a Warren Sapp, but he wasn't sure any college team would have a D-line capable of making the Tampa 2 successful as Tampa Bay currently uses it.
 
#8
#8
BJSforVols said:
I am not expert on the Tampa 2, but Frank Wycheck said on 104.5 the zone a week or so ago that the Tampa 2 did rely on just the fron 4 for QB pressure. He said the system works very well provided you have guys on the Defensive line such as a Warren Sapp, but he wasn't sure any college team would have a D-line capable of making the Tampa 2 successful as Tampa Bay currently uses it.
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I'm sure Monte is smart enough to find a way to compensate.
 
#9
#9
justingroves said:
I'm sure Monte is smart enough to find a way to compensate.
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Yeah, I agree. Frank said the same thing. He said that he figured Monte would have an evolved version of it for the college game if he ideed came on staff with Lane. One of the other guys then pointed out that he coached at the college level in the 70s, but they were not sure what scheme he used while there.
 
#10
#10
SpringBokVol said:
To be successful in the Tampa 2 you need to have three outstanding athletes at three different positions:

DT or DE - In the SEC it is better to have the DT

MLB - Think Derrick Brooks

SS - Think John Lynch and at UT Eric Berry
Click to expand...

I can't think of a more perfect LB for the defense than Derrick Brooks. From a strictly athletic ability, maybe Brian Urlacher.
 
#11
#11
BJSforVols said:
I am not expert on the Tampa 2, but Frank Wycheck said on 104.5 the zone a week or so ago that the Tampa 2 did rely on just the fron 4 for QB pressure. He said the system works very well provided you have guys on the Defensive line such as a Warren Sapp, but he wasn't sure any college team would have a D-line capable of making the Tampa 2 successful as Tampa Bay currently uses it.
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Tony Dungy's system does. Not Kiffin's version. He blitzes alot more out of his defense.
 
#12
#12
BJSforVols said:
I am not expert on the Tampa 2, but Frank Wycheck said on 104.5 the zone a week or so ago that the Tampa 2 did rely on just the fron 4 for QB pressure. He said the system works very well provided you have guys on the Defensive line such as a Warren Sapp, but he wasn't sure any college team would have a D-line capable of making the Tampa 2 successful as Tampa Bay currently uses it.
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Indy didn't have a Warren Sapp type on the Super Bowl team. But they did have a Bob Sanders. We have our version of Bob here in Eric Berry.
 
#14
#14
BJSforVols said:
Yeah, I agree. Frank said the same thing. He said that he figured Monte would have an evolved version of it for the college game if he ideed came on staff with Lane. One of the other guys then pointed out that he coached at the college level in the 70s, but they were not sure what scheme he used while there.
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Kiffin was North Carolina State's head coach in 1981 and 1982.
 
#17
#17
The biggest problem we had with chavis is he never played man coverage on third down. Always zone which allows a good reciever to get open down field.
If you noticed, later in the season after we repaetedly got burned they went to a more man coverage or at least bump and run look. I even saw them playin what I called a bump a zone against Vandy and Kentucky.
 
#18
#18
IMO Kiffin will use a different defense against Saban, Meyer, etc. They aren't west coast offense which is what the Tampa 2 is designed to stop.

I think he will come up with something new for a spread team with a single back and 4 wide receivers. Probably 5 DB's, 3-3-5 or 4-2-5. I think a mustang package is 6 DB's. :twocents:
 
#19
#19
big difference in them though...you have monte kiffin and then you have john chavis
 
#20
#20
No, Monte's Tampa 2 is "bend but not break", Chavis' Mustang is "bend and also break", they are fundamentally different.
 
#21
#21
The "Mustang" is a personnel grouping, not a "defense" per se. They can and do many different things, i.e. coverages, blitzes, etc.
 
#22
#22
Liper said:
The "Mustang" is a personnel grouping, not a "defense" per se. They can and do many different things, i.e. coverages, blitzes, etc.
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Right. If memory serves me right, 2003 LSU used this package but also maimed the crap out of the receivers every play.

My memory may be faulty; I saw very little college football that year since I was working with both the varsity and JV on our heartbreaker of a team.
 
#23
#23
Something you will probably see out of the Tampa 2 is the D line dropping someone into a zone coverage to take away short pass ie: slants, screens and quick over the middle passes. You bring a linebacker up to blitz, QB see it calls a hot pass. linebacker still blitz, QB reads it but D lineman drops in zone and punishes reciever or intercepts pass. Happens a lot in pros. I could be making this up though:)
 
#24
#24
The Tampa 2 is a cover two where the MLB has to make a quick read and drop deep down the middle of the zone into coverage on passing plays, virtually making the defense a cover 3 and allowing the CB's to play a very tight zone as the safeties have less field to cover. The pressure comes from the DE's for the most part and you'll see the WLB make a TON of tackles at the line of scrimmage. Think about Cato June at Indy and how he looked like he was all over the field. The system can make a sure tackling WLB look a lot better than they usually are.

Bob Davie's Football 101 on espn.com is really a nice resource. He breaks down virtually every defensive set used in college football, including Saban's 50. Don't know the URL though
 
#25
#25
Both are good packages ,BUT if their isn't any pressure provided by the line to get to the qb or into the backfield to disrupt things.....both fail, as all defensive packages fail.
Thats why 3rd and long was a bust for us, we couldn't pressure with 3-4 guys and with our db's so far back it was easy for them to gain 1st downs with ease once they got passed the defensive line.
 
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