Shoop's Defensive Woes - It's not just injuries

#1
jps2194

jps2194

Vol for Life
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#1
I think Shoop has to be the worst in game play caller I've seen in a long time. How many times have we run a corner blitz and get absolutely gashed for huge yards (e.g., UK's first play from scrimmage). I've lost count how many times we've blitzed a corner and the offense seems to have called the perfect play against it.

I'm not impressed with him at all and was not a fan of releasing Jancek for him and my worst fears have come true.

Many on here are blaming it on injuries. Yes, that has been a factor, but we started the game with 1 key defensive player missing - JRM. Yes, no Tuttle and no O'Brien, but I wouldn't call them key. Obviously that is debatable, but is sort of moot point. Hear me out.

What I have consistently seen this year is a poor scheme, bad defensive call, players being out of position, not setting the edge and plenty of other just plain bad play by our defense.

Many are blaming this on injuries and putting in a new defensive system. There is one position yesterday where we've had a huge downgrade in talent and that is Jumper for JRM. Regarding putting in a new system, give me a break. We are 10 games into the season and the ship for that excuse has long ago sailed away.

Our defense was awful yesterday. There is no excuse to allow UK to line up strong right with no receivers or TE on their left side and allow them to run around the end to the left for huge gains. They did this multiple times - do we not know how to set the edge? It was just plain bad defense.

Our defense has definitely regressed under Shoop and it is much more than the injury bug. Perhaps Shoop only looked good because of his assistants. I'm definitely not sold on him at all. Our defense looks lost half the time and completely undisciplined. That's all due to coaching.

UK with 485 gross yards rushing, are you kidding me?:blink:
 
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#2
#2
when you go with, I don't consider so and so "key" players, it just resonates how silly of a post this is.

you can't even judge his job this year because he has been so handicapped by injuries/dismissal.
 
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#3
#3
allvol123 said:
when you go with, I don't consider so and so "key" players, it just resonates how silly of a post this is.

you can't even judge his job this year because he has been so handicapped by injuries/dismissal.
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Totally disagree, injuries are not the cause of bad schemes and play calling. When I say key players, I'm saying they are not replaceable. Replacing Tuttle with Phillips is not as big of a drop off as replacing JRM with Jumper. Duh.
 
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#5
#5
We definitely had issues before the injuries, particularly with our d looking clueless for the first two quarters.

Not sure if Franklin was the key, Shoop and Butch don't mix or if it's asst coach issues.

Just a gut feeling, but I think Shoop may walk after the season
 
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#6
#6
jps2194 said:
Totally disagree, injuries are not the cause of bad schemes and play calling. When I say key players, I'm saying they are not replaceable. Replacing Tuttle with Phillips is not as big of a drop off as replacing JRM with Jumper. Duh.
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when you are moving DEs to DT mid-season, yes, that is clearly key injuries.
 
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#9
#9
Worst in game caller? He's made great adjustments throughout the season, often stifling the opposing team's offense in the 2nd half.
 
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#10
#10
I don't know the answers here but JRM along with 3 DT being out sure does have a lot to do with run defense. Plus, we all know that Shoop didn't install the whole package but rather tried to work with the players and meet in the middle.

Who knows but having DBs rack up so many tackles sure doesn't point to being solid in the front 7.
 
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#12
#12
"I think Shoop has to be the worst in game play caller I've seen in a long time. How many times have we run a corner blitz and get absolutely gashed for huge yards (e.g., UK's first play from scrimmage). I've lost count how many times we've blitzed a corner and the offense seems to have called the perfect play against it. "

You do realize that that the corner on the blitz should have taken the deepest back and not chase the running back right? That first blown play you referenced is a blown assignment taught all the way back to youth football. That isnt a coach's inability, but rather a quick decision made by the corner on the field during execution.

You should consider going back and watching our games throughout the season. Shoop made adjustments by the 2nd and 3rd quarter to deny the productivity seen by teams in the 1st.

Don't get me wrong, there are considerable problems, but many of them are results of what I would believe are young players and a new coach with new assistants. There should be some noticeable improvement, but it is tough to demand when every week it is a new line up with freshmen, red shirt sophomores and 3rd string players. Defenses depend heavily on chemistry. One we havent had a chance to develop much this year.

Before you pass judgement on Shoop and the team, consider the rest of the factors and don't just write them off.
 
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#13
#13
allvol123 said:
what was your starting 4 rotation at DT?

Vickers, O'Brien, Tuttle, McKenzie.

Who is left?
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Fair point about DL, but my point is O'Brien IMO was the biggest loss there. Does it have an impact, yes. Does it explain the pitiful defense we've been seeing, no. And how do you explain that we were not good when we had all of them playing?

Having them yesterday would make zero difference on the plays around the end yesterday - unless they happened to break through unblocked. It was a bad scheme and terrible blitz calls that led to huge plays.
 
#14
#14
Vol_fan_in_Tampa said:
"I think Shoop has to be the worst in game play caller I've seen in a long time. How many times have we run a corner blitz and get absolutely gashed for huge yards (e.g., UK's first play from scrimmage). I've lost count how many times we've blitzed a corner and the offense seems to have called the perfect play against it. "

You do realize that that the corner on the blitz should have taken the deepest back and not chase the running back right? That first blown play you referenced is a blown assignment taught all the way back to youth football. That isnt a coach's inability, but rather a quick decision made by the corner on the field during execution.

You should consider going back and watching our games throughout the season. Shoop made adjustments by the 2nd and 3rd quarter to deny the productivity seen by teams in the 1st.

Don't get me wrong, there are considerable problems, but many of them are results of what I would believe are young players and a new coach with new assistants. There should be some noticeable improvement, but it is tough to demand when every week it is a new line up with freshmen, red shirt sophomores and 3rd string players. Defenses depend heavily on chemistry. One we havent had a chance to develop much this year.

Before you pass judgement on Shoop and the team, consider the rest of the factors and don't just write them off.
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I guess you didn't read my post as I definitely considered all of the factors.
 
#15
#15
jps2194 said:
Fair point about DL, but my point is O'Brien IMO was the biggest loss there. Does it have an impact, yes. Does it explain the pitiful defense we've been seeing, no. And how do you explain that we were not good when we had all of them playing?

Having them yesterday would make zero difference on the plays around the end yesterday - unless they happened to break through unblocked. It was a bad scheme and terrible blitz calls that led to huge plays.
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Run D was good against UF and UGA.

Again, "having them yesterday would make no difference."

this nonsense is not worth responding to. There is a reason someone is a starter at a position and other people aren't.
 
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#17
#17
jps2194 said:
I guess you didn't read my post as I definitely considered all of the factors.
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O, I read the post and you glossed over them as though they were all irrelevant and stated Shoop was a bad coach at in game adjustments. I offered the suggestion for consideration because you obviously had not done it the first time.
 
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#18
#18
You think not having any DTs isn't key? There's a reason the middle of the Dline was getting blown back constantly. They were outweighed by 30-40lbs
 
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#19
#19
He didn't suddenly become a bad DC and I'll go ahead and crap on the assistants angle. Coordinators are not mini HCs. Strategy and scheming are not DELEGATED. It does sometimes take more than an offseason for the players (and their backups BACKUPS) to totally soak in the philosophy and individual responsibilities. Wonder how much of that is involved?
 
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#20
#20
My guess is that the game played out as the staff envisioned. They knew Ky would get a lot of rushing yards but hoped they could keep them out of the end zone enough times to outscore them. I thought we were more aggressive offensively knowing we couldn't settle for fg.
 
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#22
#22
jps2194 said:
Please tell me who was missing that was so key (other than what I mentioned) no matter what scheme we tried would be unsuccessful. :loco:
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We were missing our size and strength at the DT spot. Tuttle, McKenzie, O'Brien and the Juco who's name I can't recall were our size in the trenches. Our tackles were outweighed by 50lbs against one of the best fronts they have faced this season. I had been worried about this all week and knew we would get run on. I was esp concerned what would happen in the second half when our size and numbers would be a bigger factor. I'm glad our offense was able to keep the ball a good bit and we had a significant lead late. It would have made a HUGE difference to have our big tackles yesterday.
 
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#23
#23
Think of Shoop as an actor in a bad movie full of lower tier actors. He could be a great actor but the movie would still suck if the supporting actors are subpar. TOO MANY INJURIES to judge him this year.
 
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#24
#24
jps2194 said:
Fair point about DL, but my point is O'Brien IMO was the biggest loss there. Does it have an impact, yes. Does it explain the pitiful defense we've been seeing, no. And how do you explain that we were not good when we had all of them playing?

Having them yesterday would make zero difference on the plays around the end yesterday - unless they happened to break through unblocked. It was a bad scheme and terrible blitz calls that led to huge plays.
Click to expand...

Shoop loves to bring pressure. When you have no DTs you have to get creative with blitz packages. Not having Sutton most of the year is a huge lose you didn't mention. Having him on the field last year took away his half of the field as an option.

The biggest problem I have seen is poor communication between the DBs. They consistently look lost on their assignments. This happened last year as well. I think losing the veteran leadership of Randolph has played a huge part. He set up the backend of the defense last year. No one has asserted themselves as the alpha in his stead.
 
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#25
#25
I just came online and was about to jump on this one, but I see you guys have it pretty well covered. Good job, minus the OP and one or two others.
 
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