Shoop is the difference

#52
#52
GLDunlap said:
Vanderbilt never had 10 win seasons. 9-4 was their high water mark against a very weak schedule. How did their defense do against the top half of the SEC? I hope Shoop is great but he doesn't have a proven track record of success against top 25 teams to point to.
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With what he had to work with, what more could you expect? And that goes for both Vandy and Penn St, because Penn St had MAJOR scholarship restrictions and other than maybe recruits that grew up Penn St fans, who was going to go there?
 
#53
#53
IluvdoubleD's said:
O.K. people, I'm excited to see what this guy can do, but what the freak makes you think it's going to work out yet? I haven't seen ANYTHING that says he is better than Jancek was. I'm not against the guy, but posting we are going 15-0 because we have a guy that , personally I don't know WHAT this guy is yet, and then to say it's all going to be roses his FIRST year, it takes coaches a few years ya know? Debord worked out because he and Jones have worked together so long there was no learning curve... I have NO IDEA about this guy yet. Get A Grip people.
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You are right, you have no idea...
I'm not saying we go 15-0, but we should be in the conversation of a playoff spot and will be in ATL for a chance at the SEC title
 
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#54
#54
butchna said:
Peruse the response of fans from schools that DIDN'T land him (i.e Auburn) vs fans of a school that FIRED Jancek (i.e Georgia). I tended to defend Butch's right to surround himself with those he trusted and give the staff the time they needed to coach up the talent (as it increased). Fact is Elder did FINE at coaching the TEs and Jancek did FINE at coordinating the defense...their replacements are BETTER. Maybe you're not convinced and that's your prerogative but there is a reason that there's a large number that are excited and disagree with you.

One other thing. Not specifically you, but there seems to be a certain segment of our posters that are registering panic over this move. I commend our usual Negavol voices like Wylo and Count who seem genuinely excited about this move. Almost like their fandom overrides their need to be right on the Butch Jones is a failure narrative? I'll issue a mea culpa on my enthusiastic support of the original staff without any outlook on the possibility of failure. :hi:

At some point ALL of us have to decide what's more important...winning or our version of what that is.
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This is the longest Butchna post I think I have ever seen. :)

And a very insightful one, as well. :hi:
 
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#55
#55
GLDunlap said:
Vanderbilt never had 10 win seasons. 9-4 was their high water mark against a very weak schedule. How did their defense do against the top half of the SEC? I hope Shoop is great but he doesn't have a proven track record of success against top 25 teams to point to.
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Oh I beg your pardon. Of course, if VANDERBILT only won NINE games those years--including back to back wins over Tennessee--then naturally Shoop sucks, those defenses were mundane and stocked with underdeveloped but elite talent, and the national buzz over Bob Shoop was nothing but smoke and mirrors...including the top DC in the nation award in 2014 with a scotch-taped together Penn State defense that ranked #2 in the nation. OBVIOUSLY that #2 defense held PSU's staggering behemoth of an offense back against top 25 teams.

Franklin must be so glad to not have to worry about Shoop holding him back anymore...

Let me know when Shoop graduates from Pop Warner football coaching to the college game.

😏
 
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#56
#56
volnpowell said:
With what he had to work with, what more could you expect? And that goes for both Vandy and Penn St, because Penn St had MAJOR scholarship restrictions and other than maybe recruits that grew up Penn St fans, who was going to go there?
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Okay so they were talent challenged but that doesn't change the fact that Shoop has never won a big game never coached a championship game game and never beat an elite team. Not all his fault of course but he is getting Elite money without proving he is elite. Look at the 2013 Vandy defense which theroretically should have been his best. How did they do against the top half of the SEC? They routinely gave up 40-50 points and they actually did have some defensive talent. Check his resume is it really 600k per better than Jancek? Now throw in the fact that his family never moved to Penn and he has repeatedly stated his desire to be a HC again. I think he has a return to Nashville after Mason is fired next year in mind. We'll see how it plays out. As always it will be interesting.
 
#57
#57
mscelinaVol said:
Oh I beg your pardon. Of course, if VANDERBILT only won NINE games those years--including back to back wins over Tennessee--then naturally Shoop sucks, those defenses were mundane and stocked with underdeveloped but elite talent, and the national buzz over Bob Shoop was nothing but smoke and mirrors...including the top DC in the nation award in 2014 with a scotch-taped together Penn State defense that ranked #2 in the nation. OBVIOUSLY that #2 defense held PSU's staggering behemoth of an offense back against top 25 teams.

Franklin must be so glad to not have to worry about Shoop holding him back anymore...

Let me know when Shoop graduates from Pop Warner football coaching to the college game.

😏
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Hyperbole much? Check the only thing that matters which is wins against top 25 teams. Until he's done it he ain't done it.
 
#58
#58
GLDunlap said:
Okay so they were talent challenged but that doesn't change the fact that Shoop has never won a big game never coached a championship game game and never beat an elite team. Not all his fault of course but he is getting Elite money without proving he is elite. Look at the 2013 Vandy defense which theroretically should have been his best. How did they do against the top half of the SEC? They routinely gave up 40-50 points and they actually did have some defensive talent. Check his resume is it really 600k per better than Jancek? Now throw in the fact that his family never moved to Penn and he has repeatedly stated his desire to be a HC again. I think he has a return to Nashville after Mason is fired next year in mind. We'll see how it plays out. As always it will be interesting.
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Shoop has more in mind than a DC position and you can't blame him, he's very competitive
 
#59
#59
GLDunlap said:
Hyperbole much? Check the only thing that matters which is wins against top 25 teams. Until he's done it he ain't done it.
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A defense can hold a team to 1 score and still lose a game. He's just the defensive coordinator. He can only control what's under his control. Put a good offense at Vandy or Penn State, and those teams would have gone places! Because the defense was there.
 
#60
#60
Kristy* said:
A defense can hold a team to 1 score and still lose a game. He's just the defensive coordinator. He can only control what's under his control. Put a good offense at Vandy or Penn State, and those teams would have gone places! Because the defense was there.
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We'll see our offense should be very good next year but in fairness his defenses at Vandy and at PSU gave up plenty of points whenever they played a top 25 team.
 
#63
#63
Think of this hire like this. When the old ball coach hired Stoops THEN the gators became almost unstoppable!!
 
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#65
#65
I'm excited for the Vols, but have learned through the years, that the so called "Counting your Chicken's before they Hatch" mentality will sometimes bite you in the proverbabial back side. Vol fans should indeed be excited about Shoop, because he could be one of Butch Jones last puzzle piece's necessary for a National Championship run.
Go Vols
 
#66
#66
GLDunlap said:
We'll see our offense should be very good next year but in fairness his defenses at Vandy and at PSU gave up plenty of points whenever they played a top 25 team.
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For reference the four Vandy losses in 2012 were to South Carolina (17-13), Northwestern (23-13), Georgia (48-3), and Florida (31-17). In 2013, the four losses were to Ole Miss (39-35), South Carolina (35-25), Missouri (51-28), and Texas A&M (56-24).

Talent should be better at Tennessee than it was at Vanderbilt so I'm going to be optimistic that those on here who say that is the difference are right - but Tennessee can't give up this many points to these type of opponents and expect to win in 2016.

So you will know I have no problem whatsoever with this hire. Based on what he has done with the talent he has - he looks to be an exceptional DC. I believe we just need to pump the brakes on the expectations somewhat.
 
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#68
#68
Why are people scared to expect their team to win? It doesn't hurt any less when you lose. If Shoop is only a little better than Jancek, and we would have had him this season, we would have been the SEC East Champs at the least.
 
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#69
#69
IluvdoubleD's said:
The guy has cautiously announced his involvement in the program yet and you guys got us going 15-0 and winning it all.. come on man. You have NO IDEA what he is going to do in the SEC. If he is a bust and we suck next year will you eat your shorts?
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Actually, we do. He coached Vandy to top 25 defenses in his three years there and they beat us twice...he did that with Vanderbilt's ****ty talent, what do you think he'll do with the talent we are assembling?
 
#70
#70
BigOrange15 said:
Actually, we do. He coached Vandy to top 25 defenses in his three years there and they beat us twice...he did that with Vanderbilt's ****ty talent, what do you think he'll do with the talent we are assembling?
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Hopefully we'll also have a 2 yr winning streak against a non-bowl eligible team ... At least. :)
 
#71
#71
GBO119 said:
Why are people scared to expect their team to win? It doesn't hurt any less when you lose. If Shoop is only a little better than Jancek, and we would have had him this season, we would have been the SEC East Champs at the least.
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The smartest posters to any positive thread such as this (or so they think) are the voices of reason. The posters who temper enthusiasm and rein in the rest of us who foolishly believe that our team has just improved it's chances of winning games.
 
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#72
#72
BowlBrother85 said:
The smartest posters to any positive thread such as this (or so they think) are the voices of reason. The posters who temper enthusiasm and rein in the rest of us who foolishly believe that our team has just improved it's chances of winning games.
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Brother, this doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

Every single change you make to a football team changes its chances of winning games. Most of the time in a very small, immeasurable way...but sometimes in a much bigger way. Changing out one of your coordinators for a new one, that's usually one of the bigger changes.

And in this case, folks have statistically shown, pretty convincingly, that Shoop's defenses have achieved more with less talent than Jancek's defenses. Significantly more, with significantly less.

So the folks displaying measured enthusiasm are actually the voices of reason in this case.

And that's a wonderful thing for Vols fans everywhere.
 
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#73
#73
IluvdoubleD's said:
The guy has cautiously announced his involvement in the program yet and you guys got us going 15-0 and winning it all.. come on man. You have NO IDEA what he is going to do in the SEC. If he is a bust and we suck next year will you eat your shorts?
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Only if you will stop with the alasalami crap.
 
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