Shoop explains what he'd have run vs Florida on 4th down

#103
#103
TUSKtimes said:
The Nittany Lion's DNA is defense. They come out in some games and look like a junior varsity on O, but that side has historically been the calling card. Will it translate to Tenn?

Besides, all things being equal, this season, we will be matching your new D coordinator with one of our own.
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Saban leaving before the start of the season?
 
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#105
#105
TUSKtimes said:
These offensives are running the same number of plays that would have taken 5 quarters to accomplish before the hurry up. These days, depth ranks right up there will talent.
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Unless the defense has enough talent (and is well coached) to get themselves off the field quickly and often. Then DL depth is more of a luxury. A luxury I'd certainly prefer to have, but one that is not pivotal for us to have a very successful season.
 
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#106
#106
4th and 14: Just wondering about the irony of Shoop's statement. Normally (statistically), rushing 3 and dropping 7 would do a better job of protecting a 63 yard play, than "coming after you" (presumably blitzing). Amirite?

Not that JJ was trying to only protect against a 63yd miracle. But nonetheless, extra pressure increases sacks, hurries, and disruptions. Yet also increases the probability of broken plays which go to "the house". Everyone (here) reveres the awesome Aaron Hayden 4th Q touchdown in the Miracle @ South Bend. Nobody talks about the fact that Johnnes assistants were begging for a screen pass to counteract the ND "come at you" which had happened in the plays previous and in the TD. We're coming at you sounds seriously awesome until the offense counteracts it for a big play. It's risk vs reward, not right way or wrong way.

I'm stoked about this hire too. Simply for the fact of Shoops track record and apparent insight. Just thought this was ironic.
 
#107
#107
utvols74 said:
If any one of the three DBs around the WR drag him down b/4 the sticks.....UT wins, we're not having this conversation and Janek is still probably the DC (unfortunately).
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If ifs and buts were ... nevertheless. If that scenario took place, then we probably come pumped for the Arky game with an actual home field advantage, beat them and easily win the East. Butch is a hero and everyone on here is jacked to keep Jancek and the rest of the "best staff in America" for a Title run after a 10-2 overachieving season.

Perception is a funny thing.
 
#110
#110
TUSKtimes said:
But that last rush by Henry, wouldn't you agree, that was a keeper?
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It depends on where your moccasins sit I suppose. None of Henry's runs including that one changes the stat the Vols outrushed you guys at your house, which sort of defuses the LOS thing. Must sting a little to deflect huh?
 
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#111
#111
Kirby Smart was usually calling the defensive plays whenever I watched Bama play. I'm not sure why he gets so little credit around here.
 
#113
#113
BigOrangeTrain said:
Hindsight is always 20/20. Shoops plan could have easily failed as well.
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It's about probability. Which was more likely to have succeeded or failed? Dunno.

But, considering that Barnett had just nearly broken the freshman qb's neck the play before and the kid was walking around bleary eyed between plays, I personally would've rather seen us pressure him again rather than drop guys, two of which were basically rendered useless on the 4th down play. Jmo, just my preference. We now know exactly what happened when we backed off...a 63 yd TD 4th down conversion that lost us the game. Perhaps bringing the house on that play would've ended the streak....dropping back with a spy certainly did not.
 
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#114
#114
ScornedPapaVol said:
Kirby Smart was usually calling the defensive plays whenever I watched Bama play. I'm not sure why he gets so little credit around here.
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Saban's schemes, Saban's philosophy, Saban's gameplan, Saban's orders......Smart was Saban's DC. That's why IMO. If Saban was an offensive coach by nature then the perception and reality is likely much different. But I don't think anyone believes Saban was hands off with the defense and allowed him the autonomy he gave/gives Kiffin.
 
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#115
#115
KBVol said:
Bob Shoop explains what he would have run on 4th down against Florida

Part of the article.....


"It’s a play that will stick with Tennessee fans for a while. How would new defensive coordinator Bob Shoop have handled it?

4th and 14, less than two minutes to go at the Swamp, ball at the Florida 37-yard line, Tennessee leading by six. Last September, the Vols rushed three with a QB spy and played a deep zone. The result: a 63-yard catch-and-run to give Florida the lead and an 11th straight win over the Vols.

While on The Tony Basillo Show, Shoop explained what he would have done.

“Jalen Reeves-Maybin asked me that question,” Shoop said. “He said, ‘What’s your identity as a coach?’ I said, ‘My identity as a coach is, 4th down, game on the line, I’m coming after you."


(Edit: Thanks to whichever Mod moved this)
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Yep, like a freaking jail break. Prevent D is almost obsolete these days.
 
#116
#116
KBVol said:
National Total defense rankings for Shoop as DC....

At Vanderbilt...
2011- 18th
2012- 19th
2013- 23rd

Again, that was at VANDERBILT.

At Penn State...

2014- 2nd
2015- 14th

Then, juxtapose those defensive rankings with Franklin's simultaneous national total offense rankings which, on average, was in the 90s out of 128 teams.

As far as no one being able to run the ball on Tennessee under his watch, I agree it's beyond confident and pretty damn brash. But he worked miracles with very little to work with at Vandy, and did similar things with a Penn State team in the midst of some pretty severe sanctions coming off a horrific scandal. He'll have more talent, much, much more talent to work than he did at Vandy for sure, so let's see what he's able to do with it. Any Tennessee fan has to be very optimistic.
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Why does he seem to get worse the longer he is involved with a specific program? Not being negative...just curious
 
#117
#117
TUSKtimes said:
Can't say I remember him much at Penn St and I watched a few games. Not even when Bama played franklin's crew at Vandy. So far, what I've heard, no one in the SEC will be able to run the football on his defense, no one. And he's willing to take a lot of chances on passing downs. Sounds like a risk, reward kind of guy.
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No one can read your posts without throwing up a little bit, no one.
 
#118
#118
rynrem said:
Why does he seem to get worse the longer he is involved with a specific program? Not being negative...just curious
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18th down to 23rd over 3 years--a relatively inconsequential movement--is imo by far the lesser data point vs having 3 consecutive top 25 defenses at Vanderbilt. I wouldn't draw any meaningful observation from that trend.

As for 2nd to 14th at PSU in two years, I'd say he could come in 14th every year in Knoxville and have a job as long as he wants it.
 
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#119
#119
rynrem said:
Why does he seem to get worse the longer he is involved with a specific program? Not being negative...just curious
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Keep in mind that his defense was pretty much asked to carry the team because Franklin's offense was pathetic at both Vandy and Penn State.

For example, in 2014, while Shoop's defense was 2nd in the nation at PSU, it was juxtaposed with Franklin's offense at 114th out of 128 teams. It was similar in 2015....14th vs 105th.

Also, the difference in yards given up wasn't from season to season when Shoop's defenses fell a bit in national total defense rankings wasn't significant IMO. In other words, dropping from 18th to 19th to 23rd at Vandy didn't mean much....about 30 total yards per game. About the same at PSU.
 
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#120
#120
KBVol said:
Keep in mind that his defense was pretty much asked to carry the team because Franklin's offense was pathetic at both Vandy and Penn State.

For example, in 2014, while Shoop's defense was 2nd in the nation at PSU, it was juxtaposed with Franklin's offense at 114th out of 128 teams. It was similar in 2015....14th vs 105th.

Also, the difference in yards given up wasn't from season to season when Shoop's defenses fell a bit in national total defense rankings wasn't significant IMO. In other words, dropping from 18th to 19th to 23rd at Vandy didn't mean much....about 30 total yards per game. About the same at PSU.
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also think about how much the defense was probably on the field due to those not so good offenses....i'd like to see the TOP stats.
 
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#121
#121
TUSKtimes said:
The Nittany Lion's DNA is defense. They come out in some games and look like a junior varsity on O, but that side has historically been the calling card. Will it translate to Tenn?

Besides, all things being equal, this season, we will be matching your new D coordinator with one of our own.
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In the 3 years prior to Shoop, PSU avg'd 6th in the B-10 in total D. They avg'd 3rd in his two years.

Vandy was 8th, 9th, and 12th (last) in the 3 years prior to Shoop. They improved to 6th, 5th, and 6th under Shoop.

Again, he may be Sunseri all over.... Past performance isn't a guarantee of future results.... but it is the best indicator.

All things aren't quite equal. Jones has to beat the man to be the man.... but he has many advantages this year. He returns 17 starters and most of his depth. Bama lost a number of quality starters. He returns a 3 year starter at QB. Bama again has to replace a starter and this time they won't have the "easy button" of turning around and handing it off to Henry. (Yeah, you have talented guys fighting for the job but none at that level yet).

UT should be in better shape on O than Bama. Saban and his new DC have to make up for that on D.
 
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#122
#122
BigOrangeTrain said:
Hindsight is always 20/20. Shoops plan could have easily failed as well.
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If a DB takes a terrible angle on a WR like UT's did (I think Foreman) then the play call doesn't much matter.

I'm more interested in what Shoop would have done to keep an inept offense from getting back in the game to start with.

All in all though.... I strongly prefer aggression and pressure even with the risks and even in the types of situations we're discussing.

I like the odds of that pressure D stopping a couple of those critical 4th down plays.
 
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#124
#124
KBVol said:
National Total defense rankings for Shoop as DC....

At Vanderbilt...
2011- 18th
2012- 19th
2013- 23rd

Again, that was at VANDERBILT.

At Penn State...

2014- 2nd
2015- 14th

Then, juxtapose those defensive rankings with Franklin's simultaneous national total offense rankings which, on average, was in the 90s out of 128 teams.

As far as no one being able to run the ball on Tennessee under his watch, I agree it's beyond confident and pretty damn brash. But he worked miracles with very little to work with at Vandy, and did similar things with a Penn State team in the midst of some pretty severe sanctions coming off a horrific scandal. He'll have more talent, much, much more talent to work than he did at Vandy for sure, so let's see what he's able to do with it. Any Tennessee fan has to be very optimistic.
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You really did your homework here and I want to believe that Shoop will have a amazing defense.

However, the man has not coached one play on the Tennessee sidelines and with these athletes. All this bark will have no meaning unless there is bite. That bite cannot happen until it is FOOTBALL TIME IN TENNESSEE!!!

Personally, I prefer a lot less barking and a lot more bite. I hope he can back up all this barking.

Go Vols.
 
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#125
#125
VFFL@THE BEACH said:
You really did your homework here and I want to believe that Shoop will have a amazing defense.

However, the man has not coached one play on the Tennessee sidelines and with these athletes. All this bark will have no meaning unless there is bite. That bite cannot happen until it is FOOTBALL TIME IN TENNESSEE!!!

Personally, I prefer a lot less barking and a lot more bite. I hope he can back up all this barking.

Go Vols.
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I'm a see it before I believe guy as well. But to help counter the skepticism, look at what Shoop did at Vandy with ish talent and a corresponding putrid offense under Franklin that he had to cover for.

Similarly, in his first year at Penn State with the albatross of Franklin's inept O hanging around his neck again, he significantly improved their defense from a 49th national total D ranking in 2013, to 2nd in the country a year later.

We won't know what's gonna happen til it happens for sure, but his track record at programs with far less talent and momentum than what we have at Tennessee this year is cause for great optimism IMO.
 
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