Shaq Has Retired

#51
#51
My fondest memory of Shaq is watching a Wade Houston coached TN team beat him at TBA.
 
#52
#52
Jaytrain5 said:
The early 90's was a good era for big men, but doesn't stand alone. In the mid 80's, you had guys like Malone, Parish, Kareem, Laimbeer, Dream, Ewing, Rollins, Sampson, McHale, and Gilmore. I'm not going to bother looking up the stats for those dudes though.
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Rollins never averaged double digits in anything. Gilmore is one of the most underrated players of all time, but he was declining in the 80s. McHale was a PF. Kareem was getting less than 9 rpg for most of the 80s. Ewing and Olajuwan really became dominant 1989ish.

The 80s saw some great centers, but if you pick any one year in the 80s you aren't going to find the productivity I showed from 1993. And it wasn't just 1993, that went on for 3-5 years.
 
#53
#53
nbakerld said:
What era had better centers?

1993:

Shaq 23.4 ppg 13.9 rpg 3.5 bpg 0.584
Dream 26.1 ppg 13 rpg 4.2 bpg 0.577
Admiral 23.4 ppg 11.7 rpg 3.2 bpg 0.569
Zo 21 ppg 10.3 rpg 3.5 bpg 0.586
Ewing 24.2 ppg 12.1 rpg 2 bpg 0.546
Mutombo 13.8 ppg 13 rpg 3.5 bpg 0.567
Willis 17.9 ppg 12.9 rpg 0.5 bpg 0.531

I'd love to know of another era with 7 centers averaging a double-double, 5 getting 20 and 10. 4 getting 20, 10, and 3. Ridiculous.
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You said against the best players ever, not some silliness about Era. Shaq and Olajuwon were the greats. Robinson was a soft jumpshooter, mutimbo was awful and Mourning was a press creation.
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#55
#55
nbakerld said:
What era had better centers?

1993:

Shaq 23.4 ppg 13.9 rpg 3.5 bpg 0.584
Dream 26.1 ppg 13 rpg 4.2 bpg 0.577
Admiral 23.4 ppg 11.7 rpg 3.2 bpg 0.569
Zo 21 ppg 10.3 rpg 3.5 bpg 0.586
Ewing 24.2 ppg 12.1 rpg 2 bpg 0.546
Mutombo 13.8 ppg 13 rpg 3.5 bpg 0.567
Willis 17.9 ppg 12.9 rpg 0.5 bpg 0.531

I'd love to know of another era with 7 centers averaging a double-double, 5 getting 20 and 10. 4 getting 20, 10, and 3. Ridiculous.
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How many combined titles did the 7 have by 1993?
 
#56
#56
BigPapaVol said:
You said against the best players ever, not some silliness about Era. Shaq and Olajuwon were the greats. Robinson was a soft jumpshooter, mutimbo was awful and Mourning was a press creation.
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What are you referring to? I said...

nbakerld said:
Shaq started winning titles in 2000 because he was on a better team than in the past. As an individual his best years were the 90s. His career took off the second he stepped on the court. And he was doing it against the best centers the league had ever seen:
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I guess that might be confusing. I meant as a whole. Wilt, Russell, and Kareem are the best, but they didn't play in the strongest era's for centers like Shaq did.

And about Mutombo, Mourning, and Robinson...you are insane. What exactly was awful about Mutombo? That he shot a high %, was a great defender, or averaged a double-double for his career even though he played until the age of 42?
 
#57
#57
Mutombo and mourning were both abysmal centers. I'm a Robinson fan, but what did he win until Dincan stepped in and acted like a center? What did the other two win.

Dominant centers win. None of those were.
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#58
#58
BigPapaVol said:
Mutombo and mourning were both abysmal centers. I'm a Robinson fan, but what did he win until Dincan stepped in and acted like a center? What did the other two win.

Dominant centers win. None of those were.
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Nobody wins a title until they have the right team around them. NOBODY. Also, these guys were playing their prime in an era where MJ, Shaq, and Hakeem were winning titles. If they aren't as good as those 3, then by your logic they shouldn't have won titles. Just because they weren't as good as those 3 doesn't mean they weren't great.

So Mutombo and Mourning were "awful" and "abysmal" because they didn't win titles. Maybe "abysmal" means something else to you.

I can't even wrap my mind around your opinion of Mourning as a media creation. He did 20 and 10 five times!!!! That puts him on a very short list of centers. He was a great defender. He shot .583 for his career! How did the media accomplish all that?
 
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#59
#59
So Robinson is a soft jump-shooter? Well, Kareem was a one trick pony.
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#65
#65
I didn't realize Shaq was getting his doctorate in January. I guess he will be referred to as Dr. O'neal now....
 
#68
#68
Having a doctorate means nothing to me. We had a music teacher in high school with a doctorate. She demanded to be called Dr. while making all of 20,000 a year. There are factory workers that make more than that. Regardless, Shaq is already saying and doing stupid stuff. Which isn't surprising because he always says dumb stuff in my opinion.

"The Miami Heat, they've got a lot of great players, the `Big 2.' They will be back," O'Neal said from Louisiana during the broadcast, when discussing the NBA finals and how Dallas was able to beat Miami for the title. "LeBron James is taking a lot of criticism, but I know LeBron very well. He hears everything that everyone is saying, so I think he's going to come back and have an MVP year this year."

After the discussion turned to O'Neal's health and his decision to retire, the talk was steered back to his "Big 2" comment.

O'Neal laughed off the notion that a controversy was already getting started.

"Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, you know, they're great players, they're probably the greatest backcourt ever assembled," O'Neal said.
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Funny consindering I would have taken Bosh over Lebron in the playoffs and also, Lebron/Wade are better than Pippen/Jordan? ****. Shaq is just kissing ass to the two guys he used to play with and he never liked Bosh. They traded verbal jabs publicly. Shaq already abusing his power as an analyst to play favorites. He's as dumb as David Pollack.
 
#69
#69
The_Orange_Pearl said:
Having a doctorate means nothing to me. We had a music teacher in high school with a doctorate. She demanded to be called Dr. while making all of 20,000 a year. There are factory workers that make more than that. Regardless, Shaq is already saying and doing stupid stuff. Which isn't surprising because he always says dumb stuff in my opinion.

Funny consindering I would have taken Bosh over Lebron in the playoffs and also, Lebron/Wade are better than Pippen/Jordan? ****. Shaq is just kissing ass to the two guys he used to play with and he never liked Bosh. They traded verbal jabs publicly. Shaq already abusing his power as an analyst to play favorites. He's as dumb as David Pollack.
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Wow. You'd take 18, 8, and 1 (TS% of .553) over 24, 8, and 6 (TS% of .563)?

I don't think Shaq is holding grudges unless he he had Kobe-style beef.
 
#70
#70
nbakerld said:
Wow. You'd take 18, 8, and 1 (TS% of .553) over 24, 8, and 6 (TS% of .563)?

I don't think Shaq is holding grudges unless he he had Kobe-style beef.
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I don't care about personal numbers. I really don't...

Bosh wasn't the one turning it over and bricking shots in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

If you do care about personal numbers, here's some numbers for ya... Lebron shot 20% from 3 and averaged 5 turnovers a game in the championship.

Also, keep in mind that Bosh was going up against guys like Dirk and Chandler. Lebron was going up against Kidd(old), Terry(small) and Marion(average). Bosh had Joel Anthony backing him up while Lebron had Wade backing him up. Lebron's job was so much easier in general given the circumstances. If you'd rather have Lebron disappearing in the 4th of quarter of the championship, that's your prerogative but based on the series, you bet I would have taken Bosh over Lebron in the championship this year. I wouldn't have going into the series but I would after having actually watched it. I could care less what you read on paper, I watched the games and Bosh played better than Lebron in the championship.

And fwiw, I do think Shaq still doesn't like Bosh personally and that's why he said what he said.

After Shaquille O'Neal scored 45 against Toronto on Friday, Raptors star Chris Bosh said O'Neal had benefited from officials ignoring his three-second lane violations.

"I heard what Chris Bosh said, and that's strong words coming from the RuPaul of big men," O'Neal said. "I'm going to do the same thing (in their next meeting) I did before - make him quit. Make 'em quit and complain. It's what I do."
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#71
#71
The_Orange_Pearl said:
I don't care about personal numbers. I really don't...

Bosh wasn't the one turning it over and bricking shots in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

If you do care about personal numbers, here's some numbers for ya... Lebron shot 20% from 3 and averaged 5 turnovers a game in the championship.

Also, keep in mind that Bosh was going up against guys like Dirk and Chandler. Lebron was going up against Kidd(old), Terry(small) and Marion(average). Bosh had Joel Anthony backing him up while Lebron had Wade backing him up. Lebron's job was so much easier in general given the circumstances. If you'd rather have Lebron disappearing in the 4th of quarter of the championship, that's your prerogative but based on the series, you bet I would have taken Bosh over Lebron in the championship this year. I wouldn't have going into the series but I would after having actually watched it. I could care less what you read on paper, I watched the games and Bosh played better than Lebron in the championship.

And fwiw, I do think Shaq still doesn't like Bosh personally and that's why he said what he said.
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And Bosh would have been watching the championship from his couch without Lebron.

Marion average? He's a great defender. Dirk is not a good defender.
 
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#72
#72
Not to mention all the hype about lebron's d. Marion and Barea embarrassed him multiple times, the only time I remember him guarding Dirk, Dirk spun right around him. Then the last 3 games Jason Terry punked him hard.
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#73
#73
865dude said:
Not to mention all the hype about lebron's d. Marion and Barea embarrassed him multiple times, the only time I remember him guarding Dirk, Dirk spun right around him. Then the last 3 games Jason Terry punked him hard.
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I don't think we were watching the same basketball games.
 
#75
#75
865dude said:
If you think he played like the best defender in the league like people said he would, then we didn't watch the same games.
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Now you are making a different argument. Also I don't recall him saying he "would play like the best defender in the league".
 
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