Serious question: how are other players being picked over Vols?

[Jackcrevol]

I agree with OP. I feel like our players are constantly underrated as far as the draft is concerned, yet quite often make rosters. Emmanuel mosley, Justin Coleman, Kyle Phillips, Shy Tuttle to name a few. That's just in the last few years. There's several more that are on rosters of some sort, practice or main squad. I firmly believe that Warrior, Callaway, Bituli, and DWA will at least make a practice squad and I think warrior and Callaway could make the main roster. Jennings being drafted in the 7th is just plain silly.

I still think winning is best marketing tool. If this BS is partly political, which, in business it always IS. Start winning, and the NFL shiite will happen.

Back in 90's it was said NFL scouts knew where to go, Knox.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Homerism is blinding sometimes..

 

[Johnnyreb#VFL]

When the guy from Tennessee State got drafted over some of our guys, that didn’t make much sense to me as the competition is like high school, but an OL at 6’5 315 I guess you take your chances.
Drafts and pro success are more than numbers and takes a keen eye for off the field traits such as work ethic though. BUT if the player is serious about getting drafted, it is on him to take the initiative to improve some of the numbers, as some scouts don’t have the opportunity to meet with everyone.
Take Greg Maddox as an example. In high school, he could place the ball anywhere and could change speeds like no other. He said the ability to change speeds and place your pitch are far more important than velocity, but you have to have velocity to get drafted. He probably threw it harder in high school than he ever did in the pros simply to let scouts know he had the velocity to get drafted. The now HOF and one of the best pitchers all time is noted as the most calculated pitcher of all time, but he would have never had the opportunity if he didn’t get drafted.

 

[pharmDvol11]

Homerism is blinding sometimes..

It’s only homerism if you don’t think about it too much. How does a first team All SEC safety not get drafted in 7 rounds? 7 rounds! 3 days of hearing names that by the end of it they could’ve been making them up and naming a college you’re familiar with! After that much time goes by I’m not even asking you to name better players to take- I’m just asking you to name players! Are you gonna say “well it doesn’t fit their scheme”. Really? The defensive scheme of the bottom teams with the worst defenses in the league couldn’t go “maybe he’s worth a shot”.

 

[bamawriter]

None of which matter that much in an actual football game, except the 40 yard dash (and even then, it's a very apples to oranges comparison). But you're right, scouts obsess over shallow stuff and ignore game footage, which is how they consistently miss great players.

They don't look at route-running.
They don't look at ability to fight off a defender.
They don't look at broken tackles.
They don't look at the ability to run with a defender hanging off of you.
They don't look at side to side speed, which is often more important for a WR, as you'll rarely be running in a perfectly straight line without shifting.

They absolutely look at all of these.

 

[pharmDvol11]

They absolutely look at all of these.

The evaluation of the TCU wide receiver that went in the first round is basically he’s very athletic and fast but his skill level is very raw. His entire weaknesses section is basically what OP said they don’t look at.

 

[savannahfan]

Please allow me to rant for one moment. I have watched a few football games (UT and non-UT) in my lifetime. I would consider myself a casual fan of numerous other teams that have no bearing on UT’s schedule. I just like football plain and simple. Which brings me to my point:

Based on level of success vs competition, it makes no sense whatsoever how a player’s body of work at Ball State, La Tech, Colorado and a myriad of other programs could be considered superior to the SEC. Players like Bituli and JJ should’ve been off the board by yesterday. I am a reasonable fan. I am not referring to every SINGLE case. However can find probably 20 players that have been drafted and I’m like “nah, take that cash and put it in the toilet”. I am not trying to crap on the dreams of others but I seriously don’t understand it.

The only answer I can give you is the end results of the draft. More players from the SEC were drafted than from any other conference. Now as to our Tenn. players, lack of speed seems to have been the problem. I think this is the first eval the NFL uses on all but QB's. (or kickers) Speed and quickness, then aggressiveness and football smarts and so on down the line.
It reminds me of the scale of justice:
They place the no fast or quick weight on one side of the scale, then start placing positive weights for other things on the other side. If the balance is tip to the good side of the scales, then the evaluators move on to the nit picking one guy against the other.

 

[bamawriter]

The evaluation of the TCU wide receiver that went in the first round is basically he’s very athletic and fast but his skill level is very raw. His entire weaknesses section is basically what OP said they don’t look at.

Does that indicate that they "don't look at" those factors, or that they think he's capable of improving on all of them?

 

[savannahfan]

Yea I’m sure my opinion is subjective but JJ is a big, strong receiver that has strong hands. He is hard to bring down with underrated quickness. His top end isn’t good but his first move at speed is excellent, it creates separation. Lastly, he’s the most competitive player on any field he steps on.

The golden word here is QUICKNESS. Does the NFL have a way of measuring quickness. They measure speed at 40 yds. as this is where most plays take place. Beyond that are the pure speed guys. There are only a few over 40yrd plays per game. So to me the powers of selection concentrate on this area of ability. The "fast" guys are look at as a different class of player. (like kickers and QB'S are). I think JJ has better than average quickness, less speed. If his quickness and toughness are top level, then he will make it to the NFL field.

 

[pharmDvol11]

Does that indicate that they "don't look at" those factors, or that they think he's capable of improving on all of them?

Well before the discussion goes any further I just want to clarify if we compare these players (Reagor from TCU and JJ from UT) directly we are comparing apples to oranges. They are completely different players with different skill sets. I tried to clarify in my OP that my argument isn’t for every SINGLE situation. However if you compare 2 guys with similar skill sets then this where level of competition weighs in. You should take the guy who’s been able to produce against the better competition. There are always guys taken in mid to late rounds with serious question marks. Always. I hope it works out for the best. I really do. But when you come back to UT’s problem with this: top HS players come to the best programs because they want to get drafted. Not so they can maybe sign a $50,000 guarantee to maybe find the best situation. They just don’t. So who benefits from that?

 

[volsack]

It’s only homerism if you don’t think about it too much. How does a first team All SEC safety not get drafted in 7 rounds? 7 rounds! 3 days of hearing names that by the end of it they could’ve been making them up and naming a college you’re familiar with! After that much time goes by I’m not even asking you to name better players to take- I’m just asking you to name players! Are you gonna say “well it doesn’t fit their scheme”. Really? The defensive scheme of the bottom teams with the worst defenses in the league couldn’t go “maybe he’s worth a shot”.

At the same time you are only basing your opinion off his college performance. In the NFL he'll be playing against MEN who are older, stronger and better athletically. He didn't get drafted early because his tangible talents are far below the curve for the type athlete he will be playing with and against. There are tons of guys who were great playing against people their own age in college, but couldn't handle the next level when the competition gets significantly better. Its not that hard.

 

[Volunteer_Kirby]

Callaway wasn't drafted due to our QB play. Warrior, Bituli and Wood-Anderson were always outliers. That said, I was surprised Taylor went so high. I knew they liked him but he still went higher than expected. Next year is going to be another dud, minus Trey Smith being the first or second OL taken.

 

[pharmDvol11]

At the same time you are only basing your opinion off his college performance. In the NFL he'll be playing against MEN who are older, stronger and better athletically. He didn't get drafted early because his tangible talents are far below the curve for the type athlete he will be playing with and against. There are tons of guys who were great playing against people their own age in college, but couldn't handle the next level when the competition gets significantly better. Its not that hard.

Well if that’s true then it doesn’t really bode well for recruiting. Because why come play for the Orange and White when you can go to App St, NC State, Colorado, Wyoming or many other programs, tear up the competition and get drafted?

I’ll try to bring my point home with the following: Kongbo would’ve been better off in the long run by staying at Wyoming. With his measurables he’d have gone between Rounds 2-4

 

[VolInNW]

The only one drafted too low for his potential is JJ. Bituli is tough, but slow. And too small to be that slow in the NFL.

JJ had to fight for 50% of his receptions because JG can not deliver an accurate ball over 20 yards. That toughness can’t be underestimated. In some ways, he may be another Khalil Mac, a good player simply playing out of position. I wonder if JJ isn’t an ideal SS in the NFL.

Time will tell. I do note a refreshing lack of uga fans on the boards these days. I can handle 99gator and the other UF fans, because there is usually a nugget of truth in their posts, and they aren’t here to passively bash the Vols and seeking/demanding endless affirmation of their team.

 

[pharmDvol11]

There’s literally too much for me to type so I’ll keep it very brief and we can discuss anybody from this list or others. Here’s a list of picks where I was scratching my head:

Round (Pick)
4(1)
4(13)
5(17)
5(33)
6(25)

That’s just 5 guys right there that had as many if not more questions than DB. I could do a list for Warrior next.... or JJ?

 

[rdk4121]

I still think winning is best marketing tool. If this BS is partly political, which, in business it always IS. Start winning, and the NFL shiite will happen.

Back in 90's it was said NFL scouts knew where to go, Knox.

You're certainly right. LSU is the best team, and they had 14 players selected. That's pretty consistent across the board.

I think we'll start getting more players drafted soon just because of the way Pruitt develops players.

 

[FLVOL_79]

It’s only homerism if you don’t think about it too much. How does a first team All SEC safety not get drafted in 7 rounds? 7 rounds! 3 days of hearing names that by the end of it they could’ve been making them up and naming a college you’re familiar with! After that much time goes by I’m not even asking you to name better players to take- I’m just asking you to name players! Are you gonna say “well it doesn’t fit their scheme”. Really? The defensive scheme of the bottom teams with the worst defenses in the league couldn’t go “maybe he’s worth a shot”.

I dont expect most of the dudes associated with the worst UT football team in history to ever get a high draft pick. I love the Vols, but I'm not blinded about the extreme lack of talent we have had/have in recent years.

 

[PulaskiVolFan]

When the guy from Tennessee State got drafted over some of our guys, that didn’t make much sense to me as the competition is like high school, but an OL at 6’5 315 I guess you take your chances.
Drafts and pro success are more than numbers and takes a keen eye for off the field traits such as work ethic though. BUT if the player is serious about getting drafted, it is on him to take the initiative to improve some of the numbers, as some scouts don’t have the opportunity to meet with everyone.
Take Greg Maddox as an example. In high school, he could place the ball anywhere and could change speeds like no other. He said the ability to change speeds and place your pitch are far more important than velocity, but you have to have velocity to get drafted. He probably threw it harder in high school than he ever did in the pros simply to let scouts know he had the velocity to get drafted. The now HOF and one of the best pitchers all time is noted as the most calculated pitcher of all time, but he would have never had the opportunity if he didn’t get drafted.

You need to go back and read Maddox's scouting report again then. He never learned control until after he was drafted. He also only hit 91 in HS which was not for off the 88/89 he threw when he was with the Cubs. Greg Maddox was successful because his ball moved similar to a crafty lefty.

 

[TNnative]

Please allow me to rant for one moment. I have watched a few football games (UT and non-UT) in my lifetime. I would consider myself a casual fan of numerous other teams that have no bearing on UT’s schedule. I just like football plain and simple. Which brings me to my point:

Based on level of success vs competition, it makes no sense whatsoever how a player’s body of work at Ball State, La Tech, Colorado and a myriad of other programs could be considered superior to the SEC. Players like Bituli and JJ should’ve been off the board by yesterday. I am a reasonable fan. I am not referring to every SINGLE case. However can find probably 20 players that have been drafted and I’m like “nah, take that cash and put it in the toilet”. I am not trying to crap on the dreams of others but I seriously don’t understand it.

Jennings should have gone higher. And had it not been for the incidents? He might have. Bituli? Easier to understand that his injury concerns put him in the FA pool. All I know is as a Packers fan, I am to the point that I feel they should just trade out of the first round from now on. Their first round picks have been questionable at best and infuriating at the worst. With positions of immediate need not addressed, and they take a backup QB to Rodgers in the first. And traded up for him? A QB from Utah State? WTF? If Rodgers goes down, and he lights up the sky, I got plenty of sauce for my diet of crow. But I will believe this was a good use of a first round pick when it is proven.

 

[Johnnyreb#VFL]

You need to go back and read Maddox's scouting report again then. He never learned control until after he was drafted. He also only hit 91 in HS which was not for off the 88/89 he threw when he was with the Cubs. Greg Maddox was successful because his ball moved similar to a crafty lefty.

I’m getting my info straight from the horses mouth, not from scouting reports.

 

[TNnative]

Each club looks at it's own weaknesses, and they have scouts that scour every level of teams. Yes, the SEC pretty much dominated the first three rounds, proving that this is the conference that is still the best talent pool in the nation. But they will dissect the strengths and weaknesses for each player even if he played in the SEC. Plenty of guys like Jerry Rice and Donald Driver to become HOF players who did not play in the SEC.

 

[wmcovol]

None of the Tennessee guys had exceptional Combines. I think most were working toward their Pro Day but that got killed.

 

[rdk4121]

This explains why Bituli wasn't drafted.

Injury flagged because of his knee. Apparently was more or less a lock to get drafted had it not been for the injury.

 

[Tnphil]

This explains why Bituli wasn't drafted.

Injury flagged because of his knee. Apparently was more or less a lock to get drafted had it not been for the injury.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[ksgovols]

lol! We've got fans that are just as good at evaluating NFL talent as they are selecting the starting qb for the Vols and predicting our finish in the East.