Seniors in the two-deep

#51
#51
livefaith said:
Wow! Seriously? Our former leader just did an incredible job didn't he.:eek:hmy:

It's a miracle anyone, including Jones took this dumpster fire as a career path.
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It's why Monday during the presser Butch made the comment that we are two recruiting seasons behind. The stuff he says he doesn't just say because it sounds good. Brick by Brick is exactly how we have to build this program. Not only does butch have to coach this screwed up roster, he also has to mend relationships Dooley ruined. It's hard to land top talent in state when every high school coach has a vendetta against UT because of Dooley. All the more reason why CBJ 2014 is amazing beyond words.
 
#52
#52
oldsmokey67 said:
I did not know that Jackson has to touch crowder to get him to hike the ball.
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keckjm said:
The entire OK game he had to do it. What people don't get is outside QB the C is the most important position on the field. Most offenses operate by having the C call out new blocking assignments based upon what the defense shows, and then the QB can overrule if need be. Crowder can't even get snap counts right on the road, let alone call out new blocking assignments. Oh, and if you haven't noticed, our OL has given up double digit sacks already...:cray:
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These are noob comments. You should educate yourself a bit more on the game of football and how visiting teams in loud stadiums in the NFL and Other College programs handle snaps. It's actually common with many teams when noise is a factor that a Guard gets involved (by design). There are issues to discuss with the Offense but this is not one of them. Our snaps have been excellent. Audibility was an issue when Hurd went into the wildcat during last game. That is easily fixed.
 
#56
#56
vol66 said:
I thought it would be interesting to compare ours with Ole Miss and Auburn as it seems Jones and Co. are getting compared to Freeze and Malzahn in some threads.

I haven't analyzed it much yet, but one thing both have in common is no freshmen starting on the OL, and very few TRUE freshmen in the 2 deep at all.



Ole Miss depth chart...

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...pdf/2014-15/depth_chart_event/depth_chart.pdf

Auburn depth chart...

AuburnTigers.com - Official Athletics Site of the Auburn Tigers - Football

Pretty much the same story with UK as well...

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...pdf/2014-15/depth_chart_event/depth_chart.pdf
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The amount of players lost at Burn for 2015 maybe close to 40% if some of the JR leave early..
 
#57
#57
It was a dumper fire for Tennessee vs UF with the DB playing press coverage and the pressure the front 7 brought, I watched the replay and JW had barely 2-3 seconds before he was getting ran over by the pressure.
 
#58
#58
And, add in the fact that we have only 14 scholarship Olinemen on the roster. That means we don't even have a complete 3 deep roster. We should have a group redshirting and developing their bodies, a 3rd string of mostly freshman and sophomores and a 2 deep of juniors and seniors.
 
#59
#59
knoxville's finest said:
A.J. is the only SR that would on the elite SEC teams.
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That's not true... This is probably a 4-1 team with an even mediocre OL. Worley behind any other OL in the SEC would be by far the best QB in the East. I'm not sure how anyone can argue with the play of Coleman this year.

Lane has had a disappointing career to be sure and was probably overrated coming out of HS.

J Williams is a DE playing DT... and playing well enough to help the D to a MAJOR improvement.

Jacob Carter is like having another coach. He's a walk on who worked his tail off and according to every report I have seen "does everything right". He's not blessed with great athleticism so, no, he wouldn't start for another SEC team in all likelihood.... then again, he's not in UT's rotation either.
 
#60
#60
YorkVol said:
And, add in the fact that we have only 14 scholarship Olinemen on the roster. That means we don't even have a complete 3 deep roster. We should have a group redshirting and developing their bodies, a 3rd string of mostly freshman and sophomores and a 2 deep of juniors and seniors.
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Just curious, how many scholarship OL's do you think teams normally carry?

The 2007 Vols had 13. The 2009 Vols had 12. The 2010 Vols had 12 with 7 listed as Fr or RS Fr.... along with one Sr, one Jr, and 3 Sophs. (THAT btw was what Fulmer left for the OL... about 6-7 guys with several being well short of SEC quality)

If I am not mistaken, most teams carry 13-15 scholarship OL's.
 
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#61
#61
jahvol said:
Hopefully this will bring some people off of the ledge. I don't really understand why this isn't comprehendible. It's not to blame for ALL of our shortcomings, but 99%?...yes.
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Nope. They are lifelong cliffhangers. It's all doom and gloom and the sky is falling for them.
 
#62
#62
This is probably the most information I've ever read in a thread on here that didn't have anyone crying in it. Just facts. Boy, really makes you think about what a hot mess our program was. Goodness..
 
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#63
#63
If you want more on this go listen to Swain's show yesterday. They broke down the 2011-2014 recruiting classes by players and their offer lists. It really puts things into perspective showing how few of those kids are still here and many of the guys we recruited only had 1 or 2 big offers.
 
#64
#64
sjt18 said:
Just curious, how many scholarship OL's do you think teams normally carry?

The 2007 Vols had 13. The 2009 Vols had 12. The 2010 Vols had 12 with 7 listed as Fr or RS Fr.... along with one Sr, one Jr, and 3 Sophs. (THAT btw was what Fulmer left for the OL... about 6-7 guys with several being well short of SEC quality)

If I am not mistaken, most teams carry 13-15 scholarship OL's.
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Wow, learned something. I would have expected it to be 20 or so given you need 5 every play on offense. But, I suppose you don't rotate them the way you rotate the D line. I would like it if we were in a position to redshirt every freshman lineman.
 
#65
#65
chatavol said:
If you want more on this go listen to Swain's show yesterday. They broke down the 2011-2014 recruiting classes by players and their offer lists. It really puts things into perspective showing how few of those kids are still here and many of the guys we recruited only had 1 or 2 big offers.
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Thanks for the heads up on this. Nearly half of what would now be the senior class (2011) is gone.

Players gone for a plethora of reasons...

2011 Class (27 Signed)

DeAnthony Arnett - Transferred
Allan Carson - Transferred to Jacksonville State
Cam Clear - Transferred
Mo Couch - Ruled Permanently Ineligible
Vincent Dallas - Left Team
Christian Harris - Transferred to Grand Valley State
Izaneu Lanier - Ruled Ineligible; transferred to Univ. of West Alababma
Eddrick Loften - Never made it in
Pat Martin Transferred; Currently a RJr. at MTSU
Alan Posey - Transferred to Mercer
Antonio Richardson - Left early for NFL
Tom Smith - Transferred to Tenn. St., currently their leading rusher
Tino Thomas - Transferred

I didn't count BMo who graduated...

2012 (22 players signed, no offensive lineman)

Deion Bonner - Dismissed
Davante Bourque - Transferred to Pearl River CC
Daniel Gray - Transferred to Utah State
Alden Hill - Transferred to James Madison
Justin Meredith - (Medical)
Cordarrelle Patterson - Left early for NFL
Darrington Sentimore - Left early for NFL (did not get drafted)
Trent Taylor- Dismissed, transferred to Butler CC; currently at Iowa State
Tino Thomas - Transferred to North West Miss. CC
Que Watson - Left team

2013 (22 players signed)

Paul Harris - Transferred to Iowa Western CC; Now at Louisville
Malik Brown - Transferred to Bowling Green
Riley Ferguson - Transferred
Jason Carr - Transferred to North East Miss. CC
 
#66
#66
This thread looks to be just another excuse thread. There are at least 25 upper-classmen on the 2-deep. Our youth is the reason that we're not explected to win the east. It is not an excuse to not compete. Most of the freshmen that see real PT are playing at a very competitive lvl. The O-Line, which has 6 upper classmen, is the only unit on the team that doesn't seem to be making progress; and it's not just the freshmen that are struggling. This unit also struggled last year with a veteran lineup. Looks to be an issue getting the system across to the players.
 
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#67
#67
Dr Dread said:
This thread looks to be just another excuse thread. There are at least 25 upper-classmen on the 2-deep. Our youth is the reason that we're not explected to win the east. It is not an excuse to not compete. Most of the freshmen that see real PT are playing at a very competitive lvl. The O-Line, which has 6 upper classmen, is the only unit on the team that doesn't seem to be making progress; and it's not just the freshmen that are struggling. This unit also struggled last year with a veteran lineup. Looks to be an issue getting the system across to the players.
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14 original ut sr or jr players. the rest are freshmen, sophmores, or juco first year players.
 
#68
#68
Dr Dread said:
This thread looks to be just another excuse thread. There are at least 25 upper-classmen on the 2-deep. Our youth is the reason that we're not explected to win the east. It is not an excuse to not compete. Most of the freshmen that see real PT are playing at a very competitive lvl. The O-Line, which has 6 upper classmen, is the only unit on the team that doesn't seem to be making progress; and it's not just the freshmen that are struggling. This unit also struggled last year with a veteran lineup. Looks to be an issue getting the system across to the players.
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you're not getting it
 
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#69
#69
Dr Dread said:
This thread looks to be just another excuse thread. There are at least 25 upper-classmen on the 2-deep. Our youth is the reason that we're not explected to win the east. It is not an excuse to not compete. Most of the freshmen that see real PT are playing at a very competitive lvl. The O-Line, which has 6 upper classmen, is the only unit on the team that doesn't seem to be making progress; and it's not just the freshmen that are struggling. This unit also struggled last year with a veteran lineup. Looks to be an issue getting the system across to the players.
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22 new comers played in the UF game. It's not an excuse or a meaningless stat, it's a fact.

As for the bolded...you and I must be watching different games because I thought this team has been competing and giving their all.

Certainly we ALL know what a quitting team looks like from the former head coach's era and this team hasn't to this point shown anything but fight. A one point loss to UF and a three point loss to UGA???? How is that not competing?
 
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#70
#70
When you are playing fresh and sophs left and right that shows you how crappy the previous staff did at their job. I know its possibly we might need a new OL coach but the 3 redshirt JR starters on the OL shoild not suck like they do.
 
#71
#71
Dr Dread said:
This thread looks to be just another excuse thread. There are at least 25 upper-classmen on the 2-deep. Our youth is the reason that we're not explected to win the east. It is not an excuse to not compete. Most of the freshmen that see real PT are playing at a very competitive lvl. The O-Line, which has 6 upper classmen, is the only unit on the team that doesn't seem to be making progress; and it's not just the freshmen that are struggling. This unit also struggled last year with a veteran lineup. Looks to be an issue getting the system across to the players.
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Please elaborate on how last years OL "struggled".
 
#72
#72
volfanngaytorland said:
It all starts up front in the SEC. Doesn't matter how good your skill positions are if you can't win in the trenches.
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This is a long accepted idea, but has the game changed such that it might not be an absolute any longer?

Obviously when your line is playing like the current UT OL, its tough to do much of anything. If they were just below average instead of awful, how would the production be if we had a Gurley type of RB or a Julio Jones type of receiver? My guess is we would be 2-0 in the SEC right now.
 
#73
#73
vol66 said:
22 new comers played in the UF game. It's not an excuse or a meaningless stat, it's a fact.

As for the bolded...you and I must be watching different games because I thought this team has been competing and giving their all.

Certainly we ALL know what a quitting team looks like from the former head coach's era and this team hasn't to this point shown anything but fight. A one point loss to UF and a three point loss to UGA???? How is that not competing?
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There is competing in games, and there's competing in the conference. Competing in games has not been a problem, but to compete in the conference, you have to start winning some of them.

As for the 22 freshmen, the actual number is 19 if you go by the participation list. Out of that 19, about half of those only played ST. ST play was solid. Playing freshmen there did not hurt us.

Hurd? solid play. Barnett? not the problem. Kelly? Malone? couple of mistakes, 1 drop that cost us a 1st down. Moseley? solid in limited action. Wolf? not bad, not great. Same with Helm.
The point being that when you look at the play of the freshmen that got real playing time, the majority of them are either playing a very minimal role or playing at a lvl that does not hurt our chances for success.

That can't be said for the freshmen playing on the O-line. It can't be said for ANYONE playing on the O-line. There is not a single o-lineman on the team that is playing good football.
When to look at the game and see teams sending a 3 man rush, and all 3 make it to the QB while all 5 linemen are looking around trying to figure out who to block; it becomes obvious that none of them understand the scheme. That comes down to coaching.
 
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#75
#75
The good news is that since the problem is simply inexperience and not anything else, then our players are playing better every week as they get more game experience and coaching...I mean that's what we're all seeing, right?
 
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