SEC Title drought

[OrangeTsar]

We’ll have a good team this year and at least the Georgia game is in Knoxville, but I think we’re a year or two away from really matching up with them.

Most people thought the same about Bama in 2022. But you get the right players and the right staff and the clock can accelerate rapidly. The key will be depth. We are close. I think we can match up well with UGA this year. But do we have enough bodies to close out that fourth quarter?

 

[cherokeeeVOL]

Most people thought the same about Bama in 2022. But you get the right players and the right staff and the clock can accelerate rapidly. The key will be depth. We are close. I think we can match up well with UGA this year. But do we have enough bodies to close out that fourth quarter?

I sure hope so. UGA just seems to be so dominant along the line of scrimmage. I really like our OL and DL coaches though.

 

[#1fulmerite]

Sometimes a team wins the National Championship out of the blue. But usually that team ceases to be a factor thereafter.

Usually a team builds and gets better, and begins knocking on the door. In my memory, at least one of two things usually has to happen before they get over the hump to that NC:
1) if the team has one strong identifier, they have to win a big game in a way different from their normal identity, and/or
2) they have to beat a nemesis team that has stood in their way for awhile.

I think our defense is going to soon (1-3 years) be outstanding. Maybe there will come a game which we have to win playing possession football, at least for the 4th quarter.

As for our nemesis... I think we win the NC the year we hang losses on both Bama and Georgia

I think the year we win (it all) will come down to us having an unbelievable year (like last year) and, if schedules don’t change, Georgia and Bama being down that year. Additionally, I think we will have to have some luck like we did against Syracuse and Arkansas in ‘98.

 

[SalVolinus]

It's currently harder to win the SEC title than the national title. Georgia and Alabama both have failed to win the SEC outright, but have hoisted the coaches trophy.

 

[Randall Stephens]

I hate that we just went through the darkest period in our program's history.

But still, let's try to keep this in context. Compare our 25-year drought with some other programs.

First, set aside Vandy, A&M, South Carolina and Mizzou - they have never won the SEC football championship. Ever. Their droughts stretch out as long as they've been in the conference. For Vandy, that's coming up on a century. Heh.

And among the teams who have won at least once conference title, the Vols' streak without one is not really that unusual. Here are the others:

Bama - 11 years was their longest non-title streak, from 1981 to 1992. They are, as you might imagine, the exception to the norm.

Arkansas - second-shortest drought, at 17 years...though keep in mind they only joined the conference in 1991 (32 years ago). To have a 17 year drought in a 31 year window is actually not very good.

Then there are several of us in the 20-to-30 year range: UGa (20, from '82 to '02) ... LSU (22, from '36 to '58) ... our Vols at 25 ('98 to today) ... and Auburn (26 years, '57 to '83).

And then the really long streaks:

Florida, at 58 years ('33 to '91) ... Ole Miss, 60 years ('63 to present) ... Kentucky, at 73 years ('50 to today) ... and the longest of all, Mississippi State, at 82 years ('41 to present).

If you were a Miss State fan, you could be older than just about everyone on this board, and still never have seen your team win a conference title in football.

Compared to some, we're blessed. Now let's end our own streak in the next year or three!

Go Vols!

Arkansas has never won the SEC. Their championshipless-streak is at 31 years and counting.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Arkansas has never won the SEC. Their championshipless-streak is at 31 years and counting.

Oops, yep, my bad. Well, Arkansas' bad, but my mistake mis-crediting them with one. Heh.

Go Vols!

 

[Vol865]

I'll rephrase the question.

Will Tennessee beat Georgia this year? If not, when?

That's the question all of us (in the league) are asking ourselves.

Idk. Probably when our recruiting gets relatively close over a 3-4 year period. I don't think it'll be this year but you never know. They're replacing a lot, including a QB

 

[peaygolf]

SCE Championship and Sugar Bowl used to be THE goal every year.........
Today.........who cares. It's playoff or bust. You can win a NC without winning your division. It sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[LittleVol]

If he's going to win the SEC, he's going to have to recruit at a higher level.

That probably comes off as negative, but I don't mean it to be. It's just a fact of the sport. I love the guy and I'm thrilled to have him.

So far he's pulling around the 6-7th best classes in the SEC (I'm including TX and OK in the mix). I'll say the same thing I've said about every single coach since Phil started his downward slide- you can't out-coach more talented teams 4-5 times per year.

Great coaches can do it maybe one or two times per year, but you can't win the SEC if half-ish the other schools have more talent than you do.

I don't think you have to "win" the recruiting cycle every time, but I think you need to consistently be in the top two or three. Some players are busts, some coaches develop talent better, but you can't consistently take a roster of 3-4 stars and beat a roster of 4-5 stars. Occasionally you can if you're a great coach like JH is (showed that against Bama), but not 4-5 times per season.

Tennessee's 2023 class was probably at least the 3rd best class in the SEC. 2nd impo.

He's only had two years to recruit and that was his 2nd class. So i wouldn't use whatever average you compiled.

 

[MurphyVol]

Tennessee's 2023 class was probably at least the 3rd best class in the SEC. 2nd impo.

He's only had two years to recruit and that was his 2nd class. So i wouldn't use whatever average you compiled.

You counting Texas and Oklahoma in that assessment? Those kids will be sophomores then they join the conference .

247 composite had us 6th in the SEC (factoring in Tx and Ok).


Second??

Bama had 12 5* players and UGA had 7. Ratings aren't concrete I know, but on paper they were significantly better than us.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

You counting Texas and Oklahoma in that assessment? Those kids will be sophomores then they join the conference .

247 composite had us 6th in the SEC (factoring in Tx and Ok).


Second??

Bama had 12 5* players and UGA had 7. Ratings aren't concrete I know, but on paper they were significantly better than us.

But keep in perspective last years class was what it was because he was recruiting them to a 7 win team

We'll close the gap significantly by the time the 24 class is done.

We also don't necessarily have to recruit quite as good as both of them. Top five will do because of our scheme.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

But keep in perspective last years class was what it was because he was recruiting them to a 7 win team

We'll close the gap significantly by the time the 24 class is done.

We also don't necessarily have to recruit quite as good as both of them. Top five will do because of our scheme.

Don't thank the scheme. Thank the coaches.

This exact same offensive playbook and scheme in the hands of a mediocre coach would yield mediocre results. In the hands of a bumbling idiot, it would yield very little at all.

Not only do we have our coaches to thank for devising and installing our scheme, we have them to thank for masterfully driving it on a week-to-week basis. Without them, none of it works.

But I absolutely agree with your main point: just get us within shouting distance of Bama, Georgia and Ohio State in roster talent, and our coaches can cover for whatever gap remains.

Go Vols!

 

[LittleVol]

You counting Texas and Oklahoma in that assessment? Those kids will be sophomores then they join the conference .

247 composite had us 6th in the SEC (factoring in Tx and Ok).


Second??

Bama had 12 5* players and UGA had 7. Ratings aren't concrete I know, but on paper they were significantly better than us.

Second based on actual talent.

Not star rankings. No they absolutely were not "significantly" better.

Texas and OU did not have better classes than us, and what exactly has their stellar recruiting done for them lately??.

I'm looking through the lens of what Heupel can do with the talent brought in. And we are easily the number 2 class or tied for it.

 

[MurphyVol]

Second based on actual talent.

Not star rankings. No they absolutely were not "significantly" better.

Texas and OU did not have better classes than us, and what exactly has their stellar recruiting done for them lately??.

I'm looking through the lens of what Heupel can do with the talent brought in. And we are easily the number 2 class or tied for it.

UGA signed 9 players that were rated in the top 5 nationally at their individual positions. If we brought in a better class than what they signed then we're off to the races.

Saban is thought to have possibly brought in his best class ever.

Maybe we just have different definitions of significantly.

I hope that I and all the recruiting services are wrong and you're dead on correct. I love JH and, like you, I think he utilizes his talent well. Unfortunately, I think Saban and Smart do as well.

 

[LittleVol]

UGA signed 9 players that were rated in the top 5 nationally at their individual positions. If we brought in a better class than what they signed then we're off to the races.

Saban is thought to have possibly brought in his best class ever.

Maybe we just have different definitions of significantly.

I hope that I and all the recruiting services are wrong and you're dead on correct. I love JH and, like you, I think he utilizes his talent well. Unfortunately, I think Saban and Smart do as well.

Xs and Os, Heupel and Smart are the best in the conference imo.

Keep in mind Seldon and Bradley were 5 stars at one time. What happens to our class rank had they stayed 5 stars? And does it even matter??

We signed the best player in Nico period, and a ton of other key pieces.

Bama supposedly had a much better roster than Tennessee yet, you saw the results of that last season.

Fit and opportunities to play are MORE important than the talent itself.
Tennessee's 2023 class will compete for more championships than Alabamas 2023 class imo.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Don't thank the scheme. Thank the coaches.

This exact same offensive playbook and scheme in the hands of a mediocre coach would yield mediocre results. In the hands of a bumbling idiot, it would yield very little at all.

Not only do we have our coaches to thank for devising and installing our scheme, we have them to thank for masterfully driving it on a week-to-week basis. Without them, none of it works.

But I absolutely agree with your main point: just get us within shouting distance of Bama, Georgia and Ohio State in roster talent, and our coaches can cover for whatever gap remains.

Go Vols!

Well yeah I kinda meant coaching when I said scheme.

Heupel is a guru and he's already beaten arguably the most talented roster in the country with the 19th ranked roster (according to the 247 team talent comosite)

I think the best point to drive home what we are saying is

Clemson won two titles without a top 5 roster. It was top 15 top 10 with a great QB and we are trending in that direction as early as this year.

 

[MurphyVol]

Xs and Os, Heupel and Smart are the best in the conference imo.

Keep in mind Seldon and Bradley were 5 stars at one time. What happens to our class rank had they stayed 5 stars? And does it even matter??

We signed the best player in Nico period, and a ton of other key pieces.

Bama supposedly had a much better roster than Tennessee yet, you saw the results of that last season.

Fit and opportunities to play are MORE important than the talent itself.
Tennessee's 2023 class will compete for more championships than Alabamas 2023 class imo.

Sounds great to me. However, there is a strong correlation to top ranked-ish classes and championships. If JH becomes one of the first to buck that trend I'm fine with that.

Maybe he's a generational type coach and will be light years better than Phil and Johnny. Both of those guys typically needed better talent to beat you. Sometimes they still couldn't.

Phil and Johnny had 32 years to grind away at the SEC and won 5 titles.

One was shared, one was with a superior Florida team on probation, 3 were before expansion/SEC CG era, and all 5 were an easier road to hoe than now.

When Fulmer started to drop off was when he started recruiting in the second tier level in the SEC. Again, historically there's a strong correlation with recruiting rankings and championships.
Yes, as stated in my first post, occasionally you see someone out coach a superior team like JH did against Bama last year (or like SC did against us). I certainly wouldn't want to try and make a living doing that.

Do you want a great coach or the best talent?
Personally, I'd like to have both just to be safe.