SEC Officiating

#151
#151
CMcEver said:
Are you serious? It says that once team b touched it, team A's recovery was legal. Only before team b touched is it illegal, which was both on the 1. Once the SC player touched it, anything after that was legal touching. Read the quote, LEGAL, and for team B to possess it, they must take the ball at the spot of the illegal touch, but if it says the second touch was legal, that can't be it can it?
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Team A (Tennessee) did not possess it before the ball was dead. The moment it crossed the goal line it was a touchback.
 
#152
#152
bamawriter said:
Your understanding is wrong. It is only a possible touchdown if South Carolina possessed the ball or made illegal contact with it (like an intentional bat or kick).
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Give me the rule where once a player touched it, it is no longer a kicking play, because I can't find it. It's still a kicking play, and the only way them touching it doesnt count is if it is FORCED(like pushed into the ball), there is no unintentional touching rule. I gave you an interpretation that is very parallel with this scenario, it clearly states that it becomes legal touching after the receiving player touched it, even if it is after a player from the kicking team already touched it. The receiving team gets the assurance of returning the ball to the spot of the illegal touch, which was on the 1.
 
#153
#153
bamawriter said:
Team A (Tennessee) did not possess it before the ball was dead. The moment it crossed the goal line it was a touchback.
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Oh, so you're saying if I'm on the receiving team, and on the 1, if the ball jumps up and inadvertently hits me and goes in the endzone, it's a touchback. I get it now. Wonder why they don't all just do that?
 
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#154
#154
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think I will stick on the side of every official on the field plus the officials in the replay booth and the replay headquarters.
 
#155
#155
volinSmyrna said:
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think I will stick on the side of every official on the field plus the officials in the replay booth and the replay headquarters.
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Eh, it's a pretty unique play, I'm sure they were not really sure either, but you can bet your ass they won't comment on it.
Either way, we found a way to screw up one of the most beautiful punts I've ever seen. All they had to do was stay away from it.
 
#156
#156
CMcEver said:
Eh, it's a pretty unique play, I'm sure they were not really sure either, but you can bet your ass they won't comment on it.
Either way, we found a way to screw up one of the most beautiful punts I've ever seen. All they had to do was stay away from it.
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The only thing I can think about why McDowell did what he did was very subtle to see live. I didn't really notice it until the 97th replay I've watched. Once Martin touched it and ran by it, the SC receiver made a very slight "flinch" toward the ball. I think this made McDowell think he had to go grab it to down it before before the returner could pick it up and tried to run with it.

No doubt, that was a beauty of a punt. 69 yard punt that died on the 1....can't do much better than that. The Georgia punt last year was better from the standpoint of when it came, but that one Saturday was nice.
 
#158
#158
bamawriter said:
It's almost like an offside call: it's a free play. If the kicking team touches the ball without downing it, then the receiving team can try to make something happen with no risk. The worst case scenario is that they get the ball at the spot of the initial touch.
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'I's cheers for Bama. They win a lot. It makes me a winner. I's knows the rulz real good. Now I have to go crawl on my sister.'
 
#159
#159
Since there are so many rules experts on VN and especially in this thread, many of you need to apply your talents starting next fall. There is a desperate need for more officials for high school football in most states including Tennessee. I would like to see at least 3-5 of the posters from this topic sign up and officiate football next fall. I think that you would quickly find out that it is harder than it looks. Anyone that wants more information, send me a note and I will get you some information to start the process of officiating. I expect to hear nothing but crickets, but then again, I am told that a am wrong by 50% of the crowd on every play.
 
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#160
#160
And CRAP! I think I also just found why I'm wrong about the touchback. Rule 6-3-4-b states:
An inbounds player touched by a ball either batted or illegally kicked by an opponent is not deemed to have touched the ball (A.R. 6-3-4-II).

Get that? The inbounds player (SC guy who kicked the ball) is by that rule LEGALLY deemed to have NOT touched the ball. It's as if he never kicked it at all. Therefore, before the ball ever stopped moving it crossed the goal line and is a touchback (as the SC guy is deemed to have never touched the ball, by rule.)

That rule most certainly needs some tightening up, but I stand corrected. The refs and the replay booth got that call right.

Again. Stink! I hate being wrong.






sorry but the ball was not illegally touched or batted. This has no bearing!
 
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#161
#161
ru4real-really? said:
And CRAP! I think I also just found why I'm wrong about the touchback. Rule 6-3-4-b states:
An inbounds player touched by a ball either batted or illegally kicked by an opponent is not deemed to have touched the ball (A.R. 6-3-4-II).

Get that? The inbounds player (SC guy who kicked the ball) is by that rule LEGALLY deemed to have NOT touched the ball. It's as if he never kicked it at all. Therefore, before the ball ever stopped moving it crossed the goal line and is a touchback (as the SC guy is deemed to have never touched the ball, by rule.)

That rule most certainly needs some tightening up, but I stand corrected. The refs and the replay booth got that call right.

Again. Stink! I hate being wrong.
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So, the rule posted by CMcEver seems to be in direct conflict with the rule I posted above. His rule speaks to what happens after the kicking team touches the ball and then the receiving team touches it but loses it to the kicking team for a recovery. My rule above says that after the kicking team touches it first, the receiving team is deemed to have NOT touched it. Clearly, then, I must conclude the rule I posted refers only to illegal batting, which we did not do.

I'm back to being in agreement with CME that SC legally touched a ball in the field of play, accidentally kicking it into the endzone for a legal recovery by TN. His two options are correct, TD TN or SC at the 1. The exact thing I jumped up and started screaming at the TV the instant the refs signaled touchback.

I think the refs on the spot ruled the ball had crossed the plane before the SC player kicked it (or didn't see him kick it) and then the replay guy had inconclusive evidence to prove it didn't cross the plane as McDowell played it.

I am forced to disagree, but I think it was just a mistake, not some conspiracy. When we play bama, however...

AV
 
#163
#163
Aerie Vol said:
I think the refs on the spot ruled the ball had crossed the plane before the SC player kicked it (or didn't see him kick it) and then the replay guy had inconclusive evidence to prove it didn't cross the plane as McDowell played it.

I am forced to disagree, but I think it was just a mistake, not some conspiracy. When we play bama, however...

AV
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Well, that's what I thought, too. And I never complained about the on-field refs, that was near-impossible to see real-time, and they made the right call based on what they saw. But if you go back, they said the ruling was "confirmed", not "upheld".
I have read a good bit of the rule book, and in the rules, as well as every case and ruling example I read, it seems that a play continues as if illegal touching never happened until a possession is made, but it is the receiving team's option to take it at the result or the spot of the foul. So, both initial touches by Tennessee were illegal touches, and so SC would have always been able to take the ball back on that spot, but the play would continue as if those didn't happen. So, as soon as the SC player touched it, it would be treated as if they ran into the ball on the play, and it would be recoverable by Tennessee. Obviously, Tennessee would never get the touchdown, because SC would take the ball on the 1 vs allow the touchdown.
My thoughts were that they possibly ruled that when the Tennessee player rolled over the ball, it looked like he was kind of pushing it back, that it could be considering "forced" contact, because he was pushing it, even if barely, towards the SC player as he kicked it. Of course, it could've just been an error in stating "confirmed" and there just wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. I don't know, but that would make sense too.
I do know that I've learned more than I should ever need to know about some football rules.
 
#164
#164
HSREF said:
Since there are so many rules experts on VN and especially in this thread, many of you need to apply your talents starting next fall. There is a desperate need for more officials for high school football in most states including Tennessee. I would like to see at least 3-5 of the posters from this topic sign up and officiate football next fall. I think that you would quickly find out that it is harder than it looks. Anyone that wants more information, send me a note and I will get you some information to start the process of officiating. I expect to hear nothing but crickets, but then again, I am told that a am wrong by 50% of the crowd on every play.
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First off, the job of an official is, by no means, easy, and we keep asking them to do more and more. However, I do hold replay officials to a higher standard, simply because of the tools and environment they are given to do this.
I honestly think that football needs to get with the times and use either GPS or some sort of sensor to help with some of the judgement calls. I mean, and I know it is a different animal, even hockey uses sensors to determine goals, and it works great. This then gives the on-field officials a better ability to make pay more attention to other things on the field, like PI, holding, targeting, etc.
But I would actually love to help with football officiating, I have volunteered officiating soccer, but never football.
 
#167
#167
TennesseeTarheel said:
If laying down on the field and cuddling the ball doesn't down the ball, what does?
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That does down it for sure....He just did it in the endzone for the touchback. If he never would have touched it, they would have had the ball at the 1. One of those hustle plays that ended up costing us.
 
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