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#76
#76
herkyvol said:
As far as the thread topic, I came to a similar conclusion some time ago : http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...kelly-cincinnati-post1816135.html#post1816135

Having said that and having watched the Cincy game the other night, I have to say I was underwhelmed by his performance. I'm not sure I'm ready to jump on the Kelly bandwagon either. I'm not sure UT football is ready for a coach from the Northeast.

Will Muschamp. As far as his lack of HC experience he is really not that far behind Kiffin, plus he has more coordinator experience at the D1 level, not to mention a deep understanding of the SEC, including a proven track record of success against the UT's biggest rivals. Was it because he has given up points in the best offensive conference in D1?

Tabrams, I'll throw this in your direction... given my rationale above, what makes Kiffin a more desirable target that Muschamp?[/QUOTE]

Ok, that was a great post. Here's the deal. If you're HAMY, and your biggest problem over the past 8 years has been offense overall, then that needs to be addressed. After laid-back Buzz Peterson got fired, we got excitable Bruce Pearl.

So, from an offensive standpoint, and to hire a proven winner, who comes to mind?? Remember, HAMY"s job is on the liine, so he's unlikely to hire a risky coordinator........

So, in reality Muschamp is proabably a better overall coach than Kiffin, with more experience, but bc/ he is a defensive guy, then I would place Kiffin above him in UT's eyes........

Kelly, is actually having a very similar career path as Bruce Pearl had.......Won 2 D-2 national titles, set offenisve records........averaged one year over 600 yards total offense/ game, and over 50 points.........turned Cincinnati around with 80% 2-star players..........and only makes $800,000 a year, so he would be the cheapst of the proven HC's.........

I'm not saying that I want Kelly......I think people are misinterpretting me.......Just look at it through HAMY's view, and tell me what u see.....
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#77
#77
utmba93 said:
Proven is the last word I'd associate with a 64% won/loss record and no upward trend, minus the current year which could prove to be an outlier, in the Big 12 over the past 8 years.
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u'r talking about Leach??
I didn't say that Leach would be the new coach, but he's one of the 2nd tier, in my opnion, bc/ he plays in a GREAT conferenece, and his program is getting better, if this year is any indication......also, he is known as an offensive genius.......But it will take some bucks to get that pirate, I think UT may take a pass.......
 
#78
#78
tabrams said:
Thus, like most others who read and ignore your posts, I disagree with both your distorted tiers and its accompanying logic.

Thanks for the insult, always appreciated........:crazy:
There's no way UT will hire Kiffin, with no college HC experience, and very little NFL experience, over the other candidates, will several years of proven HC'ing experience, in my opnion.......

Kiffin will be a last resort, the bottom of the 3rd tier.......He is interviewing at Clemson, who talked about hiring Fulmer, that is where Kiffin is at......Just bc/ u personally like kiffin, doens't mean he can coach one lick as a HC......anybody can recruit at USC, I haven't noticed their recruitng was any worse since he left........

Remember, everyone LIKED Buzz Peterson, he was a wonderful guy........and Clawson too.........Being likeable is not a great resume for being HC at TN
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Using this same logic, the Raiders haven't gotten any better since Kiffin was fired. In fact, you can make a strong case that they have gotten worse.

"No college HC experience" is one of the silliest arguments in the history of arguments. Let's say Bill Cowher decided he would accept the UT job. Would you say no to him because he has no college experience?

I know what's coming next, he has HC experience. Fine, we will look at Bob Stoops and Mark Richt. Did they have any experience? Did Fulmer?

You can use any kind of slant, angle, or statistic to try to bolster your point of view, but it doesn't necessarily make it right.
 
#79
#79
Voldaddy said:
"No college HC experience" is one of the silliest arguments in the history of arguments.

You can use any kind of slant, angle, or statistic to try to bolster your point of view, but it doesn't necessarily make it right.
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Your correct.....But it's not what you or I think that matters, only what HAMY and UT alum think that counts.......

And if your HAMY on the hotseat, you have 2 choices.......take a proven HC who's a winner, or take a big gamble on a coordiator........

Hamy will go with the proven winner, in my estimation. You're only pointing out the few coordinators that had success at big programs, not the countless denizens who were complete flops, as well......
 
#80
#80
tabrams said:
Your correct.....But it's not what you or I think that matters, only what HAMY and UT alum think that counts.......

And if your HAMY on the hotseat, you have 2 choices.......take a proven HC who's a winner, or take a big gamble on a coordiator........

Hamy will go with the proven winner, in my estimation. You're only pointing out the few coordinators that had success at big programs, not the countless denizens who were complete flops, as well......
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Who do you say we are going to hire?
 
#81
#81
Voldaddy said:
Who do you say we are going to hire?
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I think he'll thrown the $$$ at Cowher, then Butch Davis....but this those guys fall through, then we're down to Leach, Kelly, Kiffin, and all the rest......

I think Kelly fits the same profile as Bruce Pearl, and other successful coaches HAMY has hired......

It's not glamorous, it's not exciting though........but RIGHT NOW it's looking like Kelly.....

who do du think??
 
#82
#82
i'd modify your "tiers" into "profiles"

Sabanesque: has won championships at the D1 level, proven recruiting prowess. i think most would agree this is what we would prefer. but, no available candidates fit this profile, so would have to cannibalize from USC, OK, OSU or ?. Davis is possibly the closest fit that has some chance of coming to UT.

Meyeresque: has been a winner at a level below D1, a la Kelly

Richtesque: successful assistant at the D1 level, a la Kiffin, Muschamp

Carrollesque: NFL coaching experience, hopefully translates to college success. Cowher, Gruden, Marvin Lewis

Milesesque: HC experience without championships. Leach

then you have bring in other factors like age, ties to UT, etc.

imo a big consideration is the "safety factor" for hamilton. being a winner would be safe of course, but who could be a bust, if anyone, and hamilton still keep his job? i'd say an NFL coach, as it would probably be the most popular choice overall among most fans.
 
#84
#84
tm3 said:
i'd modify your "tiers" into "profiles"

Sabanesque: has won championships at the D1 level, proven recruiting prowess. i think most would agree this is what we would prefer. but, no available candidates fit this profile, so would have to cannibalize from USC, OK, OSU or ?. Davis is possibly the closest fit that has some chance of coming to UT.

Meyeresque: has been a winner at a level below D1, a la Kelly

Richtesque: successful assistant at the D1 level, a la Kiffin, Muschamp

Carrollesque: NFL coaching experience, hopefully translates to college success. Cowher, Gruden, Marvin Lewis

Milesesque: HC experience without championships. Leach

then you have bring in other factors like age, ties to UT, etc.

imo a big consideration is the "safety factor" for hamilton. being a winner would be safe of course, but who could be a bust, if anyone, and hamilton still keep his job? i'd say an NFL coach, as it would probably be the most popular choice overall among most fans.
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Excellent! That's a lot better than the tier concept and its evident flaws.

It's really a matter of how one weights the different elements of these profile--and then lots more details that are idiosyncratic to each candidate.
 
#85
#85
Hey Bruce Pearl came form Wisc-Milwaukee....if you can coach you can coach..it doesnt matter what school you come from.
 
#86
#86
Voldaddy said:
Using this same logic, the Raiders haven't gotten any better since Kiffin was fired. In fact, you can make a strong case that they have gotten worse.

"No college HC experience" is one of the silliest arguments in the history of arguments. Let's say Bill Cowher decided he would accept the UT job. Would you say no to him because he has no college experience?

I know what's coming next, he has HC experience. Fine, we will look at Bob Stoops and Mark Richt. Did they have any experience? Did Fulmer?

You can use any kind of slant, angle, or statistic to try to bolster your point of view, but it doesn't necessarily make it right.
Click to expand...
..
 
#87
#87
tm3 said:
i'd modify your "tiers" into "profiles" imo a big consideration is the "safety factor" for hamilton. being a winner would be safe of course, but who could be a bust, if anyone, and hamilton still keep his job? i'd say an NFL coach, as it would probably be the most popular choice overall among most fans.
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that's a good post, I like it......I do believe, however, that if HAMY hires a bust, his job is in serious trouble......He will be the next scapegoat, NFL or not....
:eek:lol:
 
#88
#88
Most everyone on every blog on this website says that our new coach MUST HAVE Head Coaching Experience just because we are Tennessee. Well let me ask you about Bob Stoops and Mark Richt at their respective schools, did they have any Head Coaching Experience before they took over at their schools? No and from what I can tell they have turned out pretty dang well. I love Tennessee football as much as anyone on here, but I am not naive enough to think that Tennessee is the number one coaching position in the world, college or NFL. I will support whoever MH hires and root the vols on no matter who it is. GO VOLS!!!!!
 
#89
#89
IMO I believe Kiffin would be the best hire and the most upside. I think Kiffin or Muschamp would be a good hire because they are young and up and coming coaches and they will have something to prove. But this is my opinion and I could turn out to be wrong, but I dont believe we have to have someone with HC experience.
 
#90
#90
tm3 said:
i'd modify your "tiers" into "profiles"

Sabanesque: has won championships at the D1 level, proven recruiting prowess. i think most would agree this is what we would prefer. but, no available candidates fit this profile, so would have to cannibalize from USC, OK, OSU or ?. Davis is possibly the closest fit that has some chance of coming to UT.

Meyeresque: has been a winner at a level below D1, a la Kelly

Richtesque: successful assistant at the D1 level, a la Kiffin, Muschamp

Carrollesque: NFL coaching experience, hopefully translates to college success. Cowher, Gruden, Marvin Lewis

Milesesque: HC experience without championships. Leach

then you have bring in other factors like age, ties to UT, etc.

imo a big consideration is the "safety factor" for hamilton. being a winner would be safe of course, but who could be a bust, if anyone, and hamilton still keep his job? i'd say an NFL coach, as it would probably be the most popular choice overall among most fans.
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Ok, where did the 'Sabanesque' guys come from, and can they be simlarly profiled?

According to your definitions-
Carroll (USC) is, well, Carrolesque (Kiffin?), Stoops (OK) is Richtesque (Muschamp?), and Tressel (OSU) is Meyeresque (Kelly?). Really this puts Davis either as 'Mileseque' or 'Carrolesque' and not so much 'Sabanesque.'

...or am I reading this incorrectly?:ermm:
 
#91
#91
utmafia81 said:
IMO I believe Kiffin would be the best hire and the most upside. I think Kiffin or Muschamp would be a good hire because they are young and up and coming coaches and they will have something to prove. But this is my opinion and I could turn out to be wrong, but I dont believe we have to have someone with HC experience.
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I agree with u 100%.....I think if we choose to go the coordinator route, Kiffin would be the #1 choice, following by Muschamp.....

However, it's what's in HAMY"s brain that counts.......He's had chances to hire coordinators before, and passed on them......and I'm not going to get into names..........

Knowing that HAMY is on the HOT SEAT, will he roll the dice and get an up-and-coming coordinator, or play it abit safer, and go for and up-and-coming HC, who has already proved that he could win in coaching D-1??

Which makes more sense to HAMY???
 
#92
#92
utmafia81 said:
Most everyone on every blog on this website says that our new coach MUST HAVE Head Coaching Experience just because we are Tennessee. Well let me ask you about Bob Stoops and Mark Richt at their respective schools, did they have any Head Coaching Experience before they took over at their schools? No and from what I can tell they have turned out pretty dang well. I love Tennessee football as much as anyone on here, but I am not naive enough to think that Tennessee is the number one coaching position in the world, college or NFL. I will support whoever MH hires and root the vols on no matter who it is. GO VOLS!!!!!
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I'm with you brother, me too!!!
:rock: :rock: :rock:
 
#95
#95
herkyvol said:
Ok, where did the 'Sabanesque' guys come from, and can they be simlarly profiled?

According to your definitions-
Carroll (USC) is, well, Carrolesque (Kiffin?), Stoops (OK) is Richtesque (Muschamp?), and Tressel (OSU) is Meyeresque (Kelly?). Really this puts Davis either as 'Mileseque' or 'Carrolesque' and not so much 'Sabanesque.'

...or am I reading this incorrectly?:ermm:
Click to expand...

yes you could peel back some more layers, such as saying that before tressel had D1 conference championships in his pocket (sabanesque) he was meyeresque.

i think the bottom line is there is no ideal candidate out there at the moment (holes can be shot in any of them), which is why we are seeing so much fervor and disagreement here on the possibilities.
 
#96
#96
tabrams said:
I think if you just use simple logic, you can figure out who the next probable coach will be......
For example, here is my logic:

1. 1st tier coaches are not interested - Gruden, Cowher, Lovie Smith

2. 2nd tier coaches - Spurrier, Butch Davis, Leach

3. 3rd tier coaches - Kelly, Kiffin, Peterson, Patterson

So, if the "dream" or 1st tier coaches are a fantasy, and the 2nd tier coaches are either too old (Spurrier), too content with no pressure (Davis), or will engage their school in a bidding war against UT (Leach), and the result will cost us over 3 million a year.........then that leaves the 3rd tier............

The most likely are Kelly and Kiffin..........If you are comparing them, the safest coach with the most HC experience is Kelly........since Kiffin also went on an interview with Clemson, then he is not the guy, in all probability.........plus, Kelly would be the cheapest, and UT can get some of the money back that they paid to get rid of Fulmer........

So by deductive reasoning = Kelly is the new coach!! haha!!
:rock:

If you have another sound logical answer, please share.....
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I am not sure of UT's process but it would not surprise me if various candidates (all who express an interest) will be interviewed. Notes will probably be taken and recommendations made to Hamilton and the university and then a decision will be made and an offer tendered.
 
#97
#97
I saw a link on here the other day that said Texas Tech's athletic department is hurting for money. So that may be the reason Leach is itching to get out of Lubbock. My only concern with Leach (besides the dumb spread offense) is the intense media glare that he will get if he is hired as the new HC. Will he be able to handle that? I guess, if we cannot get Gruden, then Kiffen will be my next choice. Something to ponder, what if someone like Herm Edwards became available? I would feel just as confident,if not more, with him than I would with Gruden.
 
#98
#98
tm3 said:
yes you could peel back some more layers, such as saying that before tressel had D1 conference championships in his pocket (sabanesque) he was meyeresque.

i think the bottom line is there is no ideal candidate out there at the moment (holes can be shot in any of them), which is why we are seeing so much fervor and disagreement here on the possibilities.
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I know, but it was a fun exercise anyway.

As far as the ideal realistic candidate you may be right (are ideals ever realistic?) , although you would have a hard time convincing that a Bob Stoops-like hire is not what we all really want. Young. Talented. Long-term. That would be my ideal anyway. A lot of parallels can be drawn between the OU and UT programs, as well. I guess my convolutions were really a backhanded was of asking if it was possible that Will Muschamp could possibly be that kind of coach.
 
#99
#99
seant45 said:
I saw a link on here the other day that said Texas Tech's athletic department is hurting for money. So that may be the reason Leach is itching to get out of Lubbock. My only concern with Leach (besides the dumb spread offense) is the intense media glare that he will get if he is hired as the new HC. Will he be able to handle that? I guess, if we cannot get Gruden, then Kiffen will be my next choice. Something to ponder, what if someone like Herm Edwards became available? I would feel just as confident,if not more, with him than I would with Gruden.
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It obviously depends on that "someone" because if it's Edwards I would hope he would remain available after our coaching vacancy has been filled. I don't dislike the guy, just don't care for his coaching/results. Besides, we need a disciplinarian and Edwards doesn't fit that. We want wins, not ESPN highlight quotes...
 
#100
#100
The first tier was a dream and how much college experience did any of those 3 have.And Spurrier maybe 5 years ago but not much fire left in old ball coach now
 
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