Science and Religion: Creationism/Evolution Thread

#176
#176
But i thought you were saying that it was a definate that God doesnt exist and science be praised?
 
#177
#177
turambar85 said:
Look. This isn't a nihilistic argument. Just because we can never attain certainty doesn't mean there is no way of discerning good and bad beliefs. We can still bash bad beliefs, and the people who hold them in epistemically condemnable ways.
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and why knock someone who believes in something that brings them hope and a moral compas?

do you get some sort of kick out of trying to act like you are smarter then they are because you dont believe in God and they do?
 
#178
#178
ridethelightening said:
Not following. There is another one?
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Some refer to the first and second laws of thermodynamics as "the laws of entropy." Confusing, since some also refer to the second law as the "law of entropy. " I suppose it is a matter of context how one refers to it/them.
 
#179
#179
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
and why knock someone who believes in something that brings them hope and a moral compas?
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If they want to believe it privately...sure. Believe whatever silliness you want. But, when you enter the marketplace of ideas...when you start going on discussion and debate threads...when you start wanting to teach your magic...then you are almost demanding criticism.
 
#180
#180
IPorange said:
That's what is called circular logic. How did everything get here? By God. What proof is there that there is a God? Everything is here, isn't it?
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No, it only means that how the human body is made, how the earth and solar system works, and all the majestic intricacies of life on Earth simply cannot be explained by an explosion of atoms.
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#181
#181
so all discussions should be one sided, and there should never be any sort of opposition in the discussion? I hate to break it to you, but religion has played a very important role in the shaping of this country, and plays an important role in a majority of American lives today.
 
#182
#182
ridethelightening said:
Prove it to me
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Not sure if this is what you want, but farmers and dog breeders have been doing artificial selection...using completely random gene mutations...to create pure breed dogs and better crops. Given millions of years, completely random gene mutations, ordered by environmental factors and natural selection, can absolutely account for the diverse life we see on earth today. Afterall, it isn't a mistake that the bone structure of a whale's fin is exactly the same as in a human hand, or that our spines our more optimized for quadrapedal motion. Furthermore, things like the male nipple and appendix serve no anatomical function...99% of all life that ever existed on this planet is now extinct. Life is far from perfect or harmonious and IMO this fact alones rules out any possibility of intelligent design or thought out creation.
 
#184
#184
ridethelightening said:
No, it only means that how the human body is made, how the earth and solar system works, and all the majestic intricacies of life on Earth simply cannot be explained by an explosion of atoms.
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There is a lot of chaos in the universe that doesn't lend itself to creation. Seems like an awful waste of space, too.
 
#186
#186
rjd970 said:
I think the qualitative difference is the "faith" that you say science/evolution needs is more than willing to change given new evidence. Suffice to say, no matter the evidence, religion will always find some way to fit a creator into the explanation. Before evolutionary theory, was there any doubt in the genesis story being fact? It's only after the fact that we get these explanations of God using evolution, both are compatible, etc.

IMO, the only thing religion has proven is that the beliefs are structured in an elastic way so they can conviently fill any gap science has, past...present...and future.
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But you act as if science doesn't benefit from the same elasticity. It has had the benefit of the entirety of our existence to do something it has still yet to do.
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#187
#187
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
so all discussions should be one sided, and there should never be any sort of opposition in the discussion? I hate to break it to you, but religion has played a very important role in the shaping of this country, and plays an important role in a majority of American lives today.
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No. But beliefs are not created equal. I assume you would still have this view if there were people on here clamoring for Zeus to get equal time on the credibility front?

And I hate to break it to you, but the importance of religion, and the affect it has on peoples lives says absolutely nothing about its actual validity.
 
#189
#189
turambar85 said:
If they want to believe it privately...sure. Believe whatever silliness you want. But, when you enter the marketplace of ideas...when you start going on discussion and debate threads...when you start wanting to teach your magic...then you are almost demanding criticism.
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The irony and hilarity of this is unbelievable. So God is magic, but the big bang and mutation is chance with such a low probability, it will never happen again? Or hasn't happened since, at least?

Which one seems logical to the sane ones?
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#190
#190
BigPapaVol said:
But you act as if science doesn't benefit from the same elasticity. It has had the benefit of the entirely of our existence to do something it has still yet to do.
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And religion hasn't? I still think you are overlooking the difference that science never claims to have all the answers. Religion does.
 
#191
#191
rjd970 said:
No. But beliefs are not created equal. I assume you would still have this view if there were people on here clamoring for Zeus to get equal time on the credibility front?

And I hate to break it to you, but the importance of religion, and the affect it has on peoples lives says absolutely nothing about its actual validity.
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If it plays an important part on people's lives, and is in some form a big part in a majority of a culture's life, then it may not affect the validity of it in science, but that makes it relevent, and to completely rule it out and call the believers wrong or whatever is short sided
 
#193
#193
rjd970 said:
Not sure if this is what you want, but farmers and dog breeders have been doing artificial selection...using completely random gene mutations...to create pure breed dogs and better crops. Given millions of years, completely random gene mutations, ordered by environmental factors and natural selection, can absolutely account for the diverse life we see on earth today. Afterall, it isn't a mistake that the bone structure of a whale's fin is exactly the same as in a human hand, or that our spines our more optimized for quadrapedal motion. Furthermore, things like the male nipple and appendix serve no anatomical function...99% of all life that ever existed on this planet is now extinct. Life is far from perfect or harmonious and IMO this fact alones rules out any possibility of intelligent design or thought out creation.
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The flood? Almost all of man's earliest recorded writings refer to one
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#195
#195
rjd970 said:
Not sure if this is what you want, but farmers and dog breeders have been doing artificial selection...using completely random gene mutations...to create pure breed dogs and better crops. Given millions of years, completely random gene mutations, ordered by environmental factors and natural selection, can absolutely account for the diverse life we see on earth today. Afterall, it isn't a mistake that the bone structure of a whale's fin is exactly the same as in a human hand, or that our spines our more optimized for quadrapedal motion. Furthermore, things like the male nipple and appendix serve no anatomical function...99% of all life that ever existed on this planet is now extinct. Life is far from perfect or harmonious and IMO this fact alones rules out any possibility of intelligent design or thought out creation.
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So, a whale evolved from man? Is a mutated man? What? I was asking for proof that one species can evolve into another
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#196
#196
ridethelightening said:
The irony and hilarity of this is unbelievable. So God is magic, but the big bang and mutation is chance with such a low probability, it will never happen again? Or hasn't happened since, at least?

Which one seems logical to the sane ones?
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Consider learning about the Big Bang Theory and evolution, before commenting on it. Evolution is an ongoing, never-ending biological process. The "Big Bang" may have happened/will happen an infinite amount of times. I don't know where you cam up with "will never happen again."
 
#197
#197
also another question, if this is the case, wouldnt species be constantly changing, so wouldnt we see species at various stages of evolution?
 
#198
#198
ridethelightening said:
So, a whale evolved from man? Is a mutated man? What? I was asking for proof that one species can evolve into another
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The only differences between micro and macro evolution are time and geological barriers that prevent interbreeding. There isn't a single other logical difference. However, you think there is. So. Enlighten me. What legitimate point other than the two mentions differentiates between micro and macroevolution in a meaningful way?
 
#199
#199
IPorange said:
Consider learning about the Big Bang Theory and evolution, before commenting on it. Evolution is an ongoing, never-ending biological process. The "Big Bang" may have happened/will happen an infinite amount of times. I don't know where you cam up with "will never happen again."
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I said it hasn't happened since, at least
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#200
#200
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
also another question, if this is the case, wouldnt species be constantly changing, so wouldnt we see species at various stages of evolution?
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The only thing that marks speciation is custom and convention after the fact, or breeding populations during the time. It is a fuzzy concept that shouldn't be used as a black and white on off switch.

What do you mean "see species at various stages of evolution"? No species is on its way to becoming something else. No animal is half-formed as if there were some teleology directing its progress. Every animal is a fully-formed, adapted entity. You are seeing species at "various stages" all the time.
 
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