SB-XLVI-Teams-Template CDD is Building

[Vol8188]

As I said on a similar thread yesterday, the trend in BCSCGs indicates that you have a better chance of winning the NC with a superstar running back than you do with a superstar quarterback.

Winning QBs
2003-JaMarcus Russell
2004- Matt Lienart
2005- Vince Young
2006-Chris Leak/Tim Tebow
2007-Matt Flynn
2008-Tim Tebow
2009- Greg McElroy
2010- Cam Newton
2011- A.J. McCarron

I consider everyone on that list elite except Chris Leak and the two Alabama QBs.

 

[ItsAllVols]

As I said on a similar thread yesterday, the trend in BCSCGs indicates that you have a better chance of winning the NC with a superstar running back than you do with a superstar quarterback.

Yes; It has been a trend...but if a team can run up the score on that superstar running back team....doesnt that take him out of the game. Most coaches will try to shut down 1 part of the game 7 in the box to stop the run....but doesnt scoring big also do that...think UBama trys to stop the running up the score with playing deep with their DB's...Its coming this year..

 

[Smokeytom]

Yes; It has been a trend...but if a team can run up the score on that superstar running back team....doesnt that take him out of the game. Most coaches will try to shut down 1 part of the game 7 in the box to stop the run....but doesnt scoring big also do that...think UBama trys to stop the running up the score with playing deep with their DB's...Its coming this year..

The way Bama and LSU keep the score from being "ran up" is by 1) having a running game the milks the clock therefore 2) not giving the other offense a chance to score, 3) they play field position and when they do give the opponent the ball it is usually a long field and with their 4) great defenses, most teams can't take the ball 80 yards on them. Great strategy, Great coaching.

 

[bamawriter]

Winning QBs
2003-JaMarcus Russell
2004- Matt Lienart
2005- Vince Young
2006-Chris Leak/Tim Tebow
2007-Matt Flynn
2008-Tim Tebow
2009- Greg McElroy
2010- Cam Newton
2011- A.J. McCarron

I consider everyone on that list elite except Chris Leak and the two Alabama QBs.

I could be wrong, but didn't Matt Mauck play in the '03 game. And do you really consider Matt Flynn "elite"?

 

[bamawriter]

Yes; It has been a trend...but if a team can run up the score on that superstar running back team....doesnt that take him out of the game. Most coaches will try to shut down 1 part of the game 7 in the box to stop the run....but doesnt scoring big also do that...think UBama trys to stop the running up the score with playing deep with their DB's...Its coming this year..

Bama usually plays with only one deep safety. Mark Barron was often in the box. Bama defended against the deep ball by not giving the opposing QB enough time to let the play develop. It's hard to go deep when you have to throw before your WR has run his route.

 

[sittinginclass]

I could be wrong, but didn't Matt Mauck play in the '03 game. And do you really consider Matt Flynn "elite"?

As a college quarterback I'd say he was pretty darn good

 

[Vol_Doc]

Not true, I just watched the Cincy game again yesterday, and before you say "blah blah its cincy blah", just hear me out. What we did against Cincy is what Chaney WANTS to do against everybody. We didn't just score as quick as possible. We ATE UP the clock with a mixture of short, and medium passes, plus the deep throw every now and then. In the second half of that game, our run game actually picked up a little bit.

Our offense has the big play, quick strike ability, BUT when Chaney has HIS WAY, we eat up the clock, nickel and dime teams to death with a great, pro style passing game.

There was just no way to execute this without a good QB. Even WITHOUT JH11 against Florida we managed to work our way back into it, it was our defense that couldn't make a stop (well before Florida was in the redzone/field goal range at least).

This is why i'm excited to have all these weapons, and depth at WR. Chaney knows what he is doing.

GO VOLS!

Not completely sold on Chaney, but I agree with a lot of this. Many forget that UT was one of the league leaders in ball control (TOP) before Hunter went out.

 

[sittinginclass]

What are the "elite" running backs that have won the NC?

Richardson....
Ingram? I would agrue against this one. He was an above average running back with a great offensive line. The Heisman that year was a product of ESPN choosing the winner. Toby Gerhart had the better year as a running back and Suh had the "it" factor. Not sure Ingram was the most deserving and is no where near as good as Richardson. So can he really be classified as "elite"

I guess he probably is and I am just bias. But I think he was more overrated and a product of the system he was in than he is elite.

 

[99gator]

I was just supprised about the comment from 99gator, yes we do need the short yardage runners. CDD brought in some big boys 6'3..6'2 that has power behind them..and Danny O'Brien DL that has carried the ball at 6'2 310...but as you know there are several ways to pick up the running game when u have track speed...UF had 2 good ones last year...glad they graduated.

it's nice to have that kind of speed so that you can create things and maybe pop a big play.

however, you can't (and florida didn't) have a quality running game with two track sprinters who go down on any form of contact.

while most gators are going to miss having the big play potential that they create, there aren't too many tears being shed about those two no longer being the every down backs on the team.

 

[ItsAllVols]

Not completely sold on Chaney, but I agree with a lot of this. Many forget that UT was one of the league leaders in ball control (TOP) before Hunter went out.

When we started out SEC play..aka Flordia..UT Offense was hitting on all cylinders...even though we really only had 2 WR that was a threat...but this year....JH, DR, RN, VD, ZR, CP, Croom, Drae Bowles, AH (PIG), C Blanc The speed is something to think about...if they can catch the ball.

They could run the go route all game...and just keep receivers fresh...but the DP are going to get tired.

 

[ItsAllVols]

it's nice to have that kind of speed so that you can create things and maybe pop a big play.

however, you can't (and florida didn't) have a quality running game with two track sprinters who go down on any form of contact.

while most gators are going to miss having the big play potential that they create, there aren't too many tears being shed about those two no longer being the every down backs on the team.

I thought as the season progressed they got soft, but still a threat. I thought over all the talent that UF had was not showing it on the field...I get it new coach...it takes some time for players to get use to the new direction...but Im glad you got EVIL EYES and we got the CDD..

 

[bamawriter]

What are the "elite" running backs that have won the NC?

From the other thread.

98 - Travis Henry, Travis Stephens, Jamal Lewis
99 - Travis Minor
00 - Quentin Griffin
01 - Clinton Portis, Frank Gore, Willis McGahee, Najeh Davenport
02 - Maurice Clarett
03 - Justin Vincent, Joseph Addai
04 - Reggie Bush, Lendale White
05 - Jamaal Charles
06 - DeShawn Wynn, Percy Harvin (WR, but often used in run game)
07 - Charles Scott, Keiland Williams, Jacob Hester, Stephen Ridley
08 - Jeff Demps, Chris Rainey, Percy Harvin
09 - Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson
10 - Michael Dyer, Onterrio McCaleb
11 - Trent Richardson, Eddie Lacy

Obviously not every one of those guys is a hall-of-famer, but check out their championship seasons compared to the QBs they played with. Running game is a better predictor of championship possibilities than passing game.

 

[SCvol333]

From the other thread.

98 - Travis Henry, Travis Stephens, Jamal Lewis
99 - Travis Minor
00 - Quentin Griffin
01 - Clinton Portis, Frank Gore, Willis McGahee, Najeh Davenport
02 - Maurice Clarett
03 - Justin Vincent, Joseph Addai
04 - Reggie Bush, Lendale White
05 - Jamaal Charles
06 - DeShawn Wynn, Percy Harvin (WR, but often used in run game)
07 - Charles Scott, Keiland Williams, Jacob Hester, Stephen Ridley
08 - Jeff Demps, Chris Rainey, Percy Harvin
09 - Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson
10 - Michael Dyer, Onterrio McCaleb
11 - Trent Richardson, Eddie Lacy

Obviously not every one of those guys is a hall-of-famer, but check out their championship seasons compared to the QBs they played with. Running game is a better predictor of championship possibilities than passing game.

2005 - Vince Young was the leading rusher on that team and by far the best player on the field - so that year doesnt really back up your argument about RB being the best indicator of national championships - the RB's for USC were far superior but QB play decided it

2010 - again neither of those were the leading rushers and QB play was the deciding factor - not RB play - Auburn's backs were not the best backs in the natnl championship game

2008 - Tebow again was the best player on the field and so it was the QB position that determined the champion not RB - it helps your cause to through PHarvin in there but he was a still a WR

1999 - Travis Minor was a good player but he was never first team all ACC and Weinke won a heisman - so id still say QB was a better indicator than RB - Warrick was the best player on that year's team so either way I don't think this helps the RB case

 

[ejvols4]

Finally someone else says it! Ingram wasn't even the best running back on his team that year. What Toby Gerhart did that year was special. Ingram winning the Heisman that year was the biggest joke since Woodson stole it from Peyton. Ingram was highly overrated...

What are the "elite" running backs that have won the NC?

Richardson....
Ingram? I would agrue against this one. He was an above average running back with a great offensive line. The Heisman that year was a product of ESPN choosing the winner. Toby Gerhart had the better year as a running back and Suh had the "it" factor. Not sure Ingram was the most deserving and is no where near as good as Richardson. So can he really be classified as "elite"

I guess he probably is and I am just bias. But I think he was more overrated and a product of the system he was in than he is elite.

 

[ejvols4]

From the other thread.

98 - Travis Henry, Travis Stephens, Jamal Lewis
99 - Travis Minor
00 - Quentin Griffin
01 - Clinton Portis, Frank Gore, Willis McGahee, Najeh Davenport
02 - Maurice Clarett
03 - Justin Vincent, Joseph Addai
04 - Reggie Bush, Lendale White
05 - Jamaal Charles
06 - DeShawn Wynn, Percy Harvin (WR, but often used in run game)
07 - Charles Scott, Keiland Williams, Jacob Hester, Stephen Ridley
08 - Jeff Demps, Chris Rainey, Percy Harvin
09 - Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson
10 - Michael Dyer, Onterrio McCaleb
11 - Trent Richardson, Eddie Lacy

Obviously not every one of those guys is a hall-of-famer, but check out their championship seasons compared to the QBs they played with. Running game is a better predictor of championship possibilities than passing game.

Yeah I'm seeing about 5 (Richardson, Bush, White, Clarett, and Henry) elite COLLEGE backs there. I'd have included Dyer but we all know Cam was the hub of that team. Ingram was vastly overrated. Wasn't even the best RB on his team.
(I didn't include any of the 01 Miami guys but they certainly were elite. So much talent on that one team...)
I'd still say QB Play is a better indicator of success...

 

[bamawriter]

2005 - Vince Young was the leading rusher on that team and by far the best player on the field - so that year doesnt really back up your argument about RB being the best indicator of national championships - the RB's for USC were far superior but QB play decided it

2010 - again neither of those were the leading rushers and QB play was the deciding factor - not RB play - Auburn's backs were not the best backs in the natnl championship game

2008 - Tebow again was the best player on the field and so it was the QB position that determined the champion not RB - it helps your cause to through PHarvin in there but he was a still a WR

1999 - Travis Minor was a good player but he was never first team all ACC and Weinke won a heisman - so id still say QB was a better indicator than RB - Warrick was the best player on that year's team so either way I don't think this helps the RB case

So, 4 out of 14 years goes over to QB play. And Young, Newton, and Tebow were as effective on the ground as they were through the air. So I think comparing them to Brady and Manning isn't a terribly compelling argument.

 

[bamawriter]

Yeah I'm seeing about 5 (Richardson, Bush, White, Clarett, and Henry) elite COLLEGE backs there. I'd have included Dyer but we all know Cam was the hub of that team. Ingram was vastly overrated. Wasn't even the best RB on his team.
(I didn't include any of the 01 Miami guys but they certainly were elite. So much talent on that one team...)
I'd still say QB Play is a better indicator of success...

The point is that most BCSCG winning teams had more effective ground games than dynamic passing attacks. Whether you think any particular back is a superstar, most of these teams were carried by their backfields with a game manager under center.

 

[King Webbsticles]

So, 4 out of 14 years goes over to QB play. And Young, Newton, and Tebow were as effective on the ground as they were through the air. So I think comparing them to Brady and Manning isn't a terribly compelling argument.

And 3 of those QB's were runners. So 1 year without a major rushing threat.

 

[bamawriter]

And 3 of those QB's were runners. So 1 year without a major rushing threat.

Exactly. I'm not saying you have to have a solid rushing attack to win a championship, but that's basically what I'm saying.

 

[Dudleys87]

you don't have to be a running team, but you have to be able to run the football.

steve spurrier did it in the 90's and bobby petrino is doing it now.

funny coming from you..

Demps left, Rainey right, Tebow up the middle.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

I suggest to anyone to find some video of the Cincy game, and really just watch Bray's control over the entire game. No delay of game, milking the clock sometimes, picking up the pace every now and then. When our Offense has it's weapons and can do what it wants, its just as effective as Alabama, LSU when it comes to working the clock.

The one thing i was really looking for was how fast we score, and if, when Chaney's offense is clicking, we are going to be one of those teams that doesn't give their Defense time to rest, but we aren't. We work the clock nicely. and scored 45 points. :yes:
His style can definitely work in the SEC, imo. Can we please just stay healthy??

And then they should watch the ESPNU "Film Room" episode from the following week. CUM and Todd McShay break down the many ways Chaney attacked Cincinnati with Hunter (moving him all around and keeping the defense off kilter). Pretty much if Brays knows the offense like the coach knows it and he exhibits great fundamentals then we can win a few games next year.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[park216]

hope like the giants "d" wins games and titles

 

[bam15]

Bray probably has more arm strength than Brady, and I say that with all seriousness. Both of those teams run Erhardt Perkins terminology with Run and Shoot influence. One from Kevin Gilbride who coached with Mouse Davis for years, the other Charlie Weis, who ran it in New Jersey as a High School coach. Which I think Lex was alluding to. Brady excels at footwork and precision which allows him to get the ball into the hands of YAC. This also is heavily influenced by again, R&S which is running routes on the fly and reading corner leverage and the defense. You see Choice, Shoot, and Switch still ran in a heavy rate in the NFL. Almost everyone runs sight adjustments in the league now because of it. Not to discredit the OP, but the system that both of those teams run is one of the most complex in a ridiculously verbose professional game. In college, you have much less time so running a large amount of sight adjustments, which 3/4 of the Pats offense revolves around is impossible.

If you take anything from NE:
1. YAC
2. Ball-control
3. Vertical stemmed passing game - pattern reading is much harder. This is why you don't see mesh ran with frequency any more besides goal line.
4. Less max protect, more scat releases and hots. Pats seldom max protect. They horizontally stretch the field with splits and then again horizontally hit you with vertically stemmed passing game which also makes it tough for pattern reading. (In college, I would forget the SA's and just build in hots to every play. NE isn't big on this, but I think for our sake it is much better).
5. Build in plays that compliment each other. Pats run trips bunch qk screen and fk 40/41 a ton. We have junk plays that don't work off one another. (Jet/Fly sweep)

 

[ptclaus98]

Winning QBs
2003-JaMarcus Russell
2004- Matt Lienart
2005- Vince Young
2006-Chris Leak/Tim Tebow
2007-Matt Flynn
2008-Tim Tebow
2009- Greg McElroy
2010- Cam Newton
2011- A.J. McCarron

I consider everyone on that list elite except Chris Leak and the two Alabama QBs.

Matt Mauck was LSU's QB in 2003.

 

[SCvol333]

So, 4 out of 14 years goes over to QB play. And Young, Newton, and Tebow were as effective on the ground as they were through the air. So I think comparing them to Brady and Manning isn't a terribly compelling argument.

those were just the 4 most obvious - other years the defense was the major factor and it wasnt RB or QB

to say some of those other backs you listed were elite is quite a stretch too

if i just assume your right no that your model fails 28% of the time - not a great model imo