Same Song Different Verse

#51

djtee

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#51
I went back to look at the box score from the earlier win against LSU. It is interesting that in that game Rennia went for 30 verus 19 in the loss and the difference covers the score gap last night.

As it stands, the LVs remain an offensively challenged team who rely on getting a big night from Rennia and hope for some scoring help from other spots on the floor.

With Rae, Jordan, and Jazz providing almost no scoring punch, suddenly the team has an offensive mountain to climb. Key and Brown both in chipped in 9 which helped but they went MIA in the second half.

Not having a consistent 3-point scoring option shooter continues to kill this team. On the other side, Trasi's 5 treys were both momentum killers for the LVs but they also created space for driving lanes that Pointer exploited.

Of course, the LVs defensive effort was disappointing. Without Zaay, there is no easy fix for addressing the "quick guard" problem but the LVs could have done a much better job in rotating over from the weak side to close down the open lane before Pointer got to the rim. Key only played 18 minutes with 3 fouls and as the teams best rim protector, I wonder why she did not see more time.

But, when you get such poor scoring production from everyone except Davis (and she is not having an out-of-the-world game) with no outside shooting to mention, you are in hole that is tough to dig out of with defense alone.

We did see that having Jazz on the court more did help reduce TOs, so there is that.

I also think the flu bug did have some impact on why some players looked flat. Not an excuse but illnesses happen and they have an effect.

A lot is riding on Sunday's game.

That`s my point KJH needs to extend the defense we are giving up way to many 3`s and let Key be the rim protector.
 
#52

RollerVol

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#52
it's not the offense, it's the defense...these girls were recruited for offense, not defense...only one that really tries to play D and that's Rennia...it is what it is for now...still believe we can do better and will...Coach Kellie has to stay on these ladies to bring they're best all...the...time...don't think it's time to fire her just yet either...:D

GO LADY VOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#53

PG1

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#53
I disagree with you on Brown. If she is our option and is playing on one leg then why play her ? Because all it`s doing is hurting the team. i understand Rae is a hi risk player but gives you much more on the offensive end then Brown.
Seriously Brown was the only one scoring in the 1st Qtr last night.
 
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#54

glv98

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#54
As it stands, the LVs remain an offensively challenged team who rely on getting a big night from Rennia and hope for some scoring help from other spots on the floor.
So there's an LV tradition carried on, unfortunately. I had hoped a more motion oriented system would be starting to show up by now. Still hopeful.
Without Zaay, there is no easy fix for addressing the "quick guard" problem
Do we actually know how "quick" our guards can be, especially Jordan? I don't feel like I know for sure anything she could be right now but she sure seems equipped to be that lockdown perimeter defender we need so badly. If Jordan looks not quick right now I believe its just because her whole game is so discombulated and confused. I know she got ankles broke several times last night but was it more being out of position, taking a fake, etc? She just doesn't seem inherently slow to me.

Jaz, OTOH, has improved so much but seems to be playing a bit tentative and over careful. I guess that's how she's keeping an almost 3/1 league-leading a/t.o. ratio when all about her are losing their heads and the ball. But I'd really like to see her step her pace up a bit down the stretch. Last night she had one really nice offensive move and scored, but never really took offensive initiative again, LOL, she's gotten SO much better, guess she doesn't want to push it.
We did see that having Jazz on the court more did help reduce TOs, so there is that
I think it was more Jordan being on the court a little less, though somehow she still got her now standard 5 t.o.s in.
 
#55

madtownvol

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#55
So there's an LV tradition carried on, unfortunately. I had hoped a more motion oriented system would be starting to show up by now. Still hopeful.

Do we actually know how "quick" our guards can be, especially Jordan? I don't feel like I know for sure anything she could be right now but she sure seems equipped to be that lockdown perimeter defender we need so badly. If Jordan looks not quick right now I believe its just because her whole game is so discombulated and confused. I know she got ankles broke several times last night but was it more being out of position, taking a fake, etc? She just doesn't seem inherently slow to me.

Jaz, OTOH, has improved so much but seems to be playing a bit tentative and over careful. I guess that's how she's keeping an almost 3/1 league-leading a/t.o. ratio when all about her are losing their heads and the ball. But I'd really like to see her step her pace up a bit down the stretch. Last night she had one really nice offensive move and scored, but never really took offensive initiative again, LOL, she's gotten SO much better, guess she doesn't want to push it.

I think it was more Jordan being on the court a little less, though somehow she still got her now standard 5 t.o.s in.
Quickness is relative. Jordan is a very athletic 6'2 guard and she could be a nightmare in a full court press situation.

But when a 6-2 guard is matched up against a fast twitch 5-7 or 5-8 guard with a lower center of gravity (and in the Case of LSU's Pointer) with a really explosive first step, it is hard to keep that player in front. We saw the same thing against ETSU in the early season game and several since.

Jordan can learn to lower her defensive stance, give a little more space and hope that her long arms will let her close down when the guard goes for a pull-up jumper and other technical changes but the main way you address this problem is with team defense and well-timed switching.

I had expected the LVs to be better at this point in the season when it comes to team defending.

Or more specifically, I think they are generally pretty good as a defensive but small quick guards continue to cut through them like a hot knife through butter.

Watching Jordan play and some of her unforced TOs, she really just needs to relax. Every thing she does feels a bit rushed. It seems that she is having trouble adjusting to the speed of the college game but in this case, she is expecting it to be faster than it actually is.
 
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#57

firedog28

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#57
If Kellie somehow starts signing the top players in the country,she will begin to become a great coach.I really like KH,but recruiting is where it's at.Good coaches are a dime a dozen IMO !!
 
#59
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#59
Why? Only if you let it become a new standard. I need a car. I used to make enough $ to buy a BMW, but not right now. I can afford a nice Toyota. So I walk to work so as not to "lower my standards?" I'm working, after all, with total expectation of being able to buy the BMW next time around.

As far as participation trophies, I think its snowflake behavior to end the season by saying "We could play and practice more, but you guys are totally too good for those losers, our record be damned. Now go enjoy an early spring break". Talk about lettin off easy with inflated egos!

You trade cars,,,I train athletes

If I take an exposure team and win local AAU tourneys, do you think their parents will let them stay with me?

BTW,
BITE ME with that snowflake idiocy
I am a blizzard!

Take your "participation trophy" mentality and find another team
This is the UT Lady Vols!
It's NCAA or back to work
And if you think the summer is for vacationing for these girls,,,,It Ain't!!
 
#60

Darth_Vol

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#60
This fanbase really takes the cake. It doesn't matter which sport, the instant gratification bunch chimes in if things don't START at a championship level. The standard diatribe on this forum over the last few seasons was how bad the Lady Vols played under Holly Warlick. So she gets the boot and they bring in another former Lady Vol in Kellie Harper. She of course gets immediately compared to Pat Summit. Halfway through her FIRST season and she doesn't have this team (Very poorly coached team) ready to win the Big Dance. How dare her!
Who is talking about this team winning championships? We're talking about beating an unranked team that just lost one if its top players...
 
#61

Voltopia

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#61
BTW,
BITE ME with that snowflake idiocy
I am a blizzard!

Take your "participation trophy" mentality and find another team
This is the UT Lady Vols!
It's NCAA or back to work
And if you think the summer is for vacationing for these girls,,,,It Ain't!!
Pride. Plain ol' unvarnished pride. As if the team today has anything much to do with the 36 other teams that did make the NCAA tournament. As if it's some monolithic entity too big to fail, too big to acknowledge the truth -- missing the NCAA tournament already means you're no better than the 65th best team in the country. Accepting the WNIT bid is just a chance to prove you're at least 65th best. Oh and practice. And get better. "But what if we lose? What if we lose our image?" That's that same pride. If you're not competitive enough, not confident enough, to step into a second tier tournament and win -- if you're worried you might lose -- then what's really the problem? Is it the idea of losing? Or the idea that there's not actually anything behind the curtain to lose? That the connection to all that former greatness is so tenuous it may snap?

I could consider it if someone said "Tennessee has a very short bench, players rehabbing injuries, and they need to recover for next season." I could buy that. Or maybe there's issues scheduling Thompson-Boling. I could buy that too.

But "it's the NCAA or nothing" thing would be about pride. The same pride that got Tennessee into this mess. Too good. Pfft. If you miss the NCAA tournament then you aren't too good for WNIT, even if you turn it down.

North Carolina, Indiana, and Kentucky have all played in the men's NIT. They weren't too big to "humble" themselves, and I put that word in quotes specifically. Anyway, those high and mighty college basketball icons sucked it up, played, and got better. Went back to the tournament next season. If Tennessee can't make March Madness, it should strongly consider doing the same.

And for the record, I don't think the connection to the rest of the Lady Vol history is tenuous. I think it's fine. Just. C'mon.
 
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#62

RAVOL

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#62
I disagree with you on Brown. If she is our option and is playing on one leg then why play her ? Because all it`s doing is hurting the team. i understand Rae is a hi risk player but gives you much more on the offensive end then Brown.
Don't disagree lou on one leg brings more to the game than McCoy. Rae plays guard small forward.
 
#63
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#63
Momma gave me a toy when I was a kid and I broke it, because,, "I don't play"

I am not lowering my standard.
Not with this team
Not with this university
and Not with this coach

If I have a team that is supposed to be on a certain level, they are going to get to that level,, or they're going to work to get to that level

These kids came to UT to compete for an NCAA tourney,,,not an also ran trophy

I am firm with this
And if I, as a coach, am firm with this my team will be too

Haven't you heard..."teams take on the personality of their coach"
 
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#64

djtee

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#64
Don't disagree lou on one leg brings more to the game than McCoy. Rae plays guard small forward.
True Rae plays the small forward. And she had a awful game last night she was pressing the issue it looks like. She plays better when she lets the game come to her. McCoy she plays to wild for me and to many silly fouls.
 
#65

NeedOrange

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#65
Not making excuses, but on a Knoxville radio station they said Kellie and 2 other players also had the flu this past week
I thought Key was sick. On one defensive play she was sluggish, didn't move her feet, and just swiped at the ball. She came right out. KJH was more sympathetic to her than angry.
 
#66

NeedOrange

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#66
The only way they lose my support or confidence is if they accept a WNIT bid.
That is one step back I will not condone
There is , taking a step back and then there is falling down
Pat would consider this falling down and so would I

If we don't make the tourney, our season should be over and our summer of re-growth should begin!
What is to be gained by refusing an NIT bid. You would rather have the team scrimmaging on campus than playing meaningful games. Once the season is over the coaches time with the team becomes restricted. Take an NIT bid and the coaches can still work with the team just like in the season. Those are many valuable hours of development. You would throw those hours of structured practice and playing in meaningful games away? The NIT is still a meaningful tournament and has proven to be a launching spot for many teams. You don't think it would help the team to make it to the final four and play in Madison Square Garden? One of the keys to improving is to recognize where you are and build upon it. If you are an NIT team, embrace it and grow from it.

On another point, why do you think you aren't going to the dance? You are at least a top 30 program right now. You are a commercial draw. You are an up and coming team. Do you think the bottom has fallen out and the team is going to lose out. Stay in the top 30 and you're in. Support your team. Make some noise from here out and in the SEC tourney. who knows what will happen.
 
#68

NeedOrange

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#68
So, how much time does CKH have, next season if no improvement? It’s sad she hasn’t made it through one season and it appears the seat is still hot from the last coach.
That question doesn't come up until AFTER her third season. You will see what she brings to the team and how she recruits. Then a knowledgeable decision can be made.
 
#69

RAVOL

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#69
True Rae plays the small forward. And she had a awful game last night she was pressing the issue it looks like. She plays better when she lets the game come to her. McCoy she plays to wild for me and to many silly fouls.
My point is that with those who transferred out and injury to Zaye we have a very limited roster for top level basketball. So for this team we needed JH to play like a Holdsclaw Parker Catchings ect and that was asking to much.
 
#70
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#70
What is to be gained by refusing an NIT bid. You would rather have the team scrimmaging on campus than playing meaningful games. Once the season is over the coaches time with the team becomes restricted. Take an NIT bid and the coaches can still work with the team just like in the season. Those are many valuable hours of development. You would throw those hours of structured practice and playing in meaningful games away? The NIT is still a meaningful tournament and has proven to be a launching spot for many teams. You don't think it would help the team to make it to the final four and play in Madison Square Garden? One of the keys to improving is to recognize where you are and build upon it. If you are an NIT team, embrace it and grow from it.

On another point, why do you think you aren't going to the dance? You are at least a top 30 program right now. You are a commercial draw. You are an up and coming team. Do you think the bottom has fallen out and the team is going to lose out. Stay in the top 30 and you're in. Support your team. Make some noise from here out and in the SEC tourney. who knows what will happen.

I am certain we are going to the dance
 
#71
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#71
some posters started talking about what if and the wnit

I don't think we should ever accept that decline in our program
If it does happen and we don't make the tourney,,,we are not going to prove anything beating more cupcakes
 
#72

NeedOrange

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#72
Momma gave me a toy when I was a kid and I broke it, because,, "I don't play"

I am not lowering my standard.
Not with this team
Not with this university
and Not with this coach

If I have a team that is supposed to be on a certain level, they are going to get to that level,, or they're going to work to get to that level

These kids came to UT to compete for an NCAA tourney,,,not an also ran trophy

I am firm with this
And if I, as a coach, am firm with this my team will be too

Haven't you heard..."teams take on the personality of their coach"
Let us assume, for argument's sake, that this is an NIT caliber team. One of the realities is that success is based upon success. Winners learn how to win. If you are a NIT team, then win the NIT and build of that success or stay home and remember that you are there because you lost. I've known lots of coaches who are impressed with their own knowledge of tactics and drills who never learned that winning is an internalized behavior. Athleticism is a birthright, winning is a culture that is developed and it must be developed on the field of combat. If this team stays home from any meaningful tournament, they will be cementing the losing culture.
 
#74
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#74
When our season does end,,,we need to get in the gym and learn the basics
I can't remember more than a handful of up-fakes, ball-fakes, pump-fakes and swings
this is why teams that shouldn't beat us are doing so
Pointer used a set-up move on most of her drives

If we did that we'd be much further ahead
we need to take some practices and work on first-step set-up moves in a bad way
If you know how to use them, by proxy, you know how to defend them
 

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