Sad State of Affairs with UT football program if true

#76
#76
VolRoger said:
"Originally Posted by LWSVOL View Post
the coaches you want will not be an option, at any point"

This was posted yesterday in response to a post recommending we start reaching out right now to some big time coaches. The poster here is widely known on Vol Nation as someone in the know about how things are ran in the AD and amongst the big boosters. If he is correct, I don't see how one can extrapolate anything else other than the powers that be at UT don't care if this program is mediocre. As such, I wonder why we even bother supporting and watching UT athletics, much less it's biggest revenue producer, football. There are programs out there that have been able to be highly successful in the current big $$$ landscape of college football. Some have overcome probation, sanctions, poor decision making amongst their power brokers (who finally woke up and smelled the coffee i.e. Alabama and Saban), prison for its administration and former coaches (Penn State), and other soap operas like the ones we stay mired in. Yet they've come out and compete for championships - Alabama, Clemson, FSU (not this year), Oklahoma, USCw, Washington, Ohio State, Michigan, and now Penn State come to mind. Other teams with really good coaching stay competitive and/or are on the rise - TCU, now Georgia, perhaps Purdue, Oklahoma State - I'm sure there are others. Yet our team is mediocre, looks to have a ceiling of 8 regular season wins (not an average) under its current coach, and the decision makes seem to be okay with this? If that is indeed the case, then I'm not sure again why some here bother to spend $1,000s of dollars each year, waste hours of time watching crap like the UMASS game, only to hear the folks who can make this better will not do so?

Given our history, tradition, and hunger for winning among this fan base, it is almost criminal what we have had to deal with the past 10 years. Someone on another post outlined a great summary on why this job should now be very attractive to a big name coach wanting to make a change. If we keep Jones with what I suspect will be 6-6 this year, or we fire him at the end of the season and settle on another mid-major coach or an assistant, that's really all I need to know to substantiate that LWSVOL really knows what he's talking about.
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How is it criminal?

I love LWS' input but he isn't infallible. See the AD search.
 
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#77
#77
With complete and total respect for LWSVOL... he is pretty much money when it comes to reporting things that HAVE HAPPENED... but hasn't been as good at predicting things that WILL happen.

There were a lot of people here who claimed that Jones would be untouchable at 8-4. I said "things change". Now... there seem to be quite a few saying that 8-4 with performances like the last two won't be good enough.

So who steps forward and puts money behind a buyout and hire? I don't know. But there is plenty of time for minds to change.
 
#78
#78
UTK said:
My thing is, why on earth would the people in charge not want UT to do better and make more money. Doesn't make sense.
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Money is not the issue. The program makes lots of revenue with a team playing on a non-championship level. The reasons likely vary from billionaires to millionaires.
 
#79
#79
82_VOL_83 said:
How is it criminal?

I love LWS' input but he isn't infallible. See the AD search.
Click to expand...

Poor choice of words on my part. Retract criminal and substitute negligent. Don't know anything about LWS' posts on AD search. I do know that he has many times been given an insider status on several different message boards. If that perception has been proven to be inaccurate, then my whlle premise for my argument may be flawed. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it. I hate being negative about my alma mater, and I really hoped that we were getting back to the top with Jones as coach. I don't see that happening now.
 
#80
#80
The issue with UT is and shall remain job competition. As long as you know you are "the man" in the two deep, you will coast. The teams like Bama and others mentioned in the OP have a legacy of championships and being the GO TO schools. UT has a great history that is getting older and more blurry as the years go on. We are no longer a school that draws players based on history, we have to compete just like the USCe's, KY's, AR's, etc. When you are 3 and 4 deep at every position, kids play like there is no tomorrow. That is just how it is.
 
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#81
#81
VolRoger said:
Poor choice of words on my part. Retract criminal and substitute negligent. Don't know anything about LWS' posts on AD search. I do know that he has many times been given an insider status on several different message boards. If that perception has been proven to be inaccurate, then my premise for my opinions are flawed. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it. I hate being negative about my alma mater, and I really hoped that we were getting back to the top with Jones as coach. I don't see that happening now.
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It is negligible and unconscionable I will agree. I agree with this post whole heartedly. LWS is one of the best sources of info here but sometimes he is just dead wrong like the AD search. I believe that UT started losing a lot of longtime donors and seat holders this year. My family has had season tickets since the 60's. This is the first year that I can remember that we don't hold seats somewhere in that stadium. This issue of having to "win the team back" every season will end this year. I think unless we have an epically bad season we have Butch starting next year. I think the end is nigh though.
 
#82
#82
82_VOL_83 said:
The issue with UT is and shall remain job competition. As long as you know you are "the man" in the two deep, you will coast. The teams like Bama and others mentioned in the OP have a legacy of championships and being the GO TO schools. UT has a great history that is getting older and more blurry as the years go on. We are no longer a school that draws players based on history, we have to compete just like the USCe's, KY's, AR's, etc. When you are 3 and 4 deep at every position, kids play like there is no tomorrow. That is just how it is.
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I agree with what you say. Our history is getting more blurred the farther from 2004 we get. That's the last time the Vols beat Georgia, Florida and Bama in the same year. That said, the right leadership can get this program back to top 5-10. Look at PSU and USC.
 
#83
#83
VolRoger said:
Money is not the issue. The program makes lots of revenue with a team playing on a non-championship level. The reasons likely vary from billionaires to millionaires.
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We are back in the black but it's hardly a cash cow...the last year I saw (2014) the surplus was a meager $60k...yea, gross revenue was $103,542,111 but expenses were $103,481,231

We're back in the black in part because we finally finished paying off the two coaches we fired...Fulmer and Dooley...

The AD screwed up giving Butch the extension and now we really do need to wait...otherwise we'll run in the red a couple of years until we finish paying for Butch's buyout...and if you know you're gonna run in the red, you aren't really in a position to pay bama type money for a coach...so you'll end up with another Butch, or Dooley or if you're lucky, maybe a Fulmer...
 
#84
#84
Sarms58 said:
We are back in the black but it's hardly a cash cow...the last year I saw (2014) the surplus was a meager $60k...yea, gross revenue was $103,542,111 but expenses were $103,481,231

We're back in the black in part because we finally finished paying off the two coaches we fired...Fulmer and Dooley...

The AD screwed up giving Butch the extension and now we really do need to wait...otherwise we'll run in the red a couple of years until we finish paying for Butch's buyout...and if you know you're gonna run in the red, you aren't really in a position to pay bama type money for a coach...so you'll end up with another Butch, or Dooley or if you're lucky, maybe a Fulmer...
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You are absolutely correct. Tennessee has only been been running in the black for a couple years now. You can thank incompetent Mike Hamilton for that. At one time we were actually paying Butch salary in addition to the Dooley and Fulmer buyout. Our athletic department financial reserves are some of the lowest in the SEC. Anybody notice that most all of the TN athletic teams seem to be down? I call that the Mike Hamilton effect. I remember when we went to the CWS and now we are one of the worst baseball programs in the SEC.
 
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#85
#85
Sarms58 said:
We are back in the black but it's hardly a cash cow...the last year I saw (2014) the surplus was a meager $60k...yea, gross revenue was $103,542,111 but expenses were $103,481,231

We're back in the black in part because we finally finished paying off the two coaches we fired...Fulmer and Dooley...

The AD screwed up giving Butch the extension and now we really do need to wait...otherwise we'll run in the red a couple of years until we finish paying for Butch's buyout...and if you know you're gonna run in the red, you aren't really in a position to pay bama type money for a coach...so you'll end up with another Butch, or Dooley or if you're lucky, maybe a Fulmer...
Click to expand...

Then I guess the money guys are cheap? My understandin from other posts is at least two boosters are billionaires. I got to think they could bank roll a change in staff and take the financial pressure off if there actually is any on the athletics department.
 
#87
#87
UTK said:
My thing is, why on earth would the people in charge not want UT to do better and make more money. Doesn't make sense.
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I think it's more they see getting a better deal on a similar commodity to be a better investment. I'd go all in for a coach like Patterson but idk that UT will.
 
#88
#88
jackcrevol said:
Larry would admit he’s been wrong before. Every year there’s posts about booster this or that. 9/10 its total bull****.

I think the school’s stutter stepping during AD hire is indication of two facets paddling in opposing directions. Truth is, someone needs to step up and be the man
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Alabama had Mal Moore. We have no such person. The boosters were so sick of losing and they had soneone they trusted to make the decision. They backed him 100% and the rest is college football history. Tennessee has no basis for any scenario like that because the boosters have not been united since Johnny Majors came, and it's not likely to happen now.
So here's the question: who is out there who can unite the fan base and boosters, and st the same time has the power to make the administration take a back seat? Who is that person?
 
#89
#89
VolRoger said:
"Originally Posted by LWSVOL View Post
the coaches you want will not be an option, at any point"

This was posted yesterday in response to a post recommending we start reaching out right now to some big time coaches. The poster here is widely known on Vol Nation as someone in the know about how things are ran in the AD and amongst the big boosters. If he is correct, I don't see how one can extrapolate anything else other than the powers that be at UT don't care if this program is mediocre. As such, I wonder why we even bother supporting and watching UT athletics, much less it's biggest revenue producer, football. There are programs out there that have been able to be highly successful in the current big $$$ landscape of college football. Some have overcome probation, sanctions, poor decision making amongst their power brokers (who finally woke up and smelled the coffee i.e. Alabama and Saban), prison for its administration and former coaches (Penn State), and other soap operas like the ones we stay mired in. Yet they've come out and compete for championships - Alabama, Clemson, FSU (not this year), Oklahoma, USCw, Washington, Ohio State, Michigan, and now Penn State come to mind. Other teams with really good coaching stay competitive and/or are on the rise - TCU, now Georgia, perhaps Purdue, Oklahoma State - I'm sure there are others. Yet our team is mediocre, looks to have a ceiling of 8 regular season wins (not an average) under its current coach, and the decision makes seem to be okay with this? If that is indeed the case, then I'm not sure again why some here bother to spend $1,000s of dollars each year, waste hours of time watching crap like the UMASS game, only to hear the folks who can make this better will not do so?

Given our history, tradition, and hunger for winning among this fan base, it is almost criminal what we have had to deal with the past 10 years. Someone on another post outlined a great summary on why this job should now be very attractive to a big name coach wanting to make a change. If we keep Jones with what I suspect will be 6-6 this year, or we fire him at the end of the season and settle on another mid-major coach or an assistant, that's really all I need to know to substantiate that LWSVOL really knows what he's talking about.
Click to expand...


I totally agree.

If UT football makes you guys as miserable as you appear through your posts, I don't know why you're a fan either. As much hand wringing and worrying about games yet played as some on here do it makes no sense to me why you do it.

I'm sure there's a front runner bandwagon that has room for the lot of you.
 
#90
#90
Ii would love it if they would make a run at Dabo. he is 4.4 million and I say go for 6 or 7 million for him.. In over 50 years I have not seen them run at a big name successful head coach that was not from Tennessee. Please do something different.. I just don't think they will.
 
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#91
#91
I have nothing but respect for LWS and he is a tenured poster on both sites I frequent.

However, and I mentioned this to him, but his attitude towards the program has become increasingly negative over the years. Now I don't blame him but at this point I feel it has gotten to the point of clouded judgement due to his distaste for some of the power boosters and anger towards some bad decisions.

However, if he is accurate then the long-term outlook for TN football and athletics is bleak. If they mess this up then that no.2 spot in the revenues will change quickly. Could get very ugly.
 
#93
#93
GRN1926 said:
I have nothing but respect for LWS and he is a tenured poster on both sites I frequent.

However, and I mentioned this to him, but his attitude towards the program has become increasingly negative over the years. Now I don't blame him but at this point I feel it has gotten to the point of clouded judgement due to his distaste for some of the power boosters and anger towards some bad decisions.

However, if he is accurate then the long-term outlook for TN football and athletics is bleak. If they mess this up then that no.2 spot in the revenues will change quickly. Could get very ugly.
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I don't really get too angry about these things. They are far out of my hands and ability to have any impact. I realize I am pretty negative toward admin and boosters who I believe do little to make our programs (not just football) championship levels. I just don't feel they do enough. and they have the power and capital to do so.

I'm too old to have the energy to go and support them like I have in the past when I feel they are not putting forth best efforts.
 
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#94
#94
volfannbama said:
No worries man. Im not always the nicest either and i know my comments tend to come off bad. So my apologies as well.I just try to assume certain things about people (everyones a vols fan and we all intent the best for the team) even though most of us disagree on how to get there.

Congrats on a great career. Docs are a special breed, i have had great ones along the way. Great people, including yourself with making those special forces.

I started my career at 2/6 as well, but didnt get there until Jan 97. Good unit. Former Commandant was my CO for a time.

Always good to find common ground.
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Small world.. I was with 2/6 .. 0352
 
#96
#96
LWSVOL said:
Ii would love it if they would make a run at Dabo. he is 4.4 million and I say go for 6 or 7 million for him.. In over 50 years I have not seen them run at a big name successful head coach that was not from Tennessee. Please do something different.. I just don't think they will.
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If Tennessee doesnt make a run at him Bama will when Saban retires.
 
#97
#97
I feel anyone thinks it's the Tennessee way to go hire the hot name on the market, you don't know the history of the program. The only time in the entire history they hire the hot name was in 1976 when they brought John Majors home. And he was an alum. All administrators would have been lynched at the square if they'd hired Don Shula from the Miami Dolphins instead.

Get real people.
 
#99
#99
VolRoger said:
"Originally Posted by LWSVOL View Post
the coaches you want will not be an option, at any point"

This was posted yesterday in response to a post recommending we start reaching out right now to some big time coaches. The poster here is widely known on Vol Nation as someone in the know about how things are ran in the AD and amongst the big boosters. If he is correct, I don't see how one can extrapolate anything else other than the powers that be at UT don't care if this program is mediocre. As such, I wonder why we even bother supporting and watching UT athletics, much less it's biggest revenue producer, football. There are programs out there that have been able to be highly successful in the current big $$$ landscape of college football. Some have overcome probation, sanctions, poor decision making amongst their power brokers (who finally woke up and smelled the coffee i.e. Alabama and Saban), prison for its administration and former coaches (Penn State), and other soap operas like the ones we stay mired in. Yet they've come out and compete for championships - Alabama, Clemson, FSU (not this year), Oklahoma, USCw, Washington, Ohio State, Michigan, and now Penn State come to mind. Other teams with really good coaching stay competitive and/or are on the rise - TCU, now Georgia, perhaps Purdue, Oklahoma State - I'm sure there are others. Yet our team is mediocre, looks to have a ceiling of 8 regular season wins (not an average) under its current coach, and the decision makes seem to be okay with this? If that is indeed the case, then I'm not sure again why some here bother to spend $1,000s of dollars each year, waste hours of time watching crap like the UMASS game, only to hear the folks who can make this better will not do so?

Given our history, tradition, and hunger for winning among this fan base, it is almost criminal what we have had to deal with the past 10 years. Someone on another post outlined a great summary on why this job should now be very attractive to a big name coach wanting to make a change. If we keep Jones with what I suspect will be 6-6 this year, or we fire him at the end of the season and settle on another mid-major coach or an assistant, that's really all I need to know to substantiate that LWSVOL really knows what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

Does your "Train of Thought" have a Caboose?
 
#100
#100
Jim Bob Cooter is sounding better all the time. Young, aggressive, offensive minded, connections to the NFL. Previous history seems to have been outrun. Can be gotten for CBJ money if he is interested.
 
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