Sacks Allowed 2023 and 2024

#26
#26
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
The biggest difference between those teams is that we had a great quarterback with Hendon Hooker and weak QBs without him.
Click to expand...
QB is important but our WRs have been terrible since the 2022 group left. Think about it. I know in 2023, the WRs dropped at least what would have been almost 10 TDs from Milton. Last year they were bad again. It’s not all QB.
 
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#30
#30
PEPPERJAX said:
Running the ball has been consistent every year since JH took over. The OL needs to get back to 2022 level pass pro.
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I agree. I’m expecting Heard to be much better. He improved as the season progressed last year. Think Sanders will be better than 1 legged Campbell. Think we upgraded both guard spots in the portal and think Satterwhite will hold his own at center. Also like our depth
 
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#31
#31
So let me see if I can summarize the factors that can produce a high sack count. On a given play...

1. One or more OL fail in physicality or blocking technique
2. One or more OL fail mentally or in communication, to pick up the stunt or blitzer
3. RB fails in physicality or technique to block the free rusher
4. RB fails mentally or in communication to be in position to block the free rusher
5. QB tucks the ball to run prematurely, before the rush has been spread out to create running lanes
6. QB holds the ball too long because he's not reading & deciding quickly enough
7. QB holds the ball too long because the receivers are running routes incorrectly or late
8. QB holds the ball too long because the receivers are unable to create separation and get open

It's my guess that (and I'm not trying to complicate things just to be difficult) to have meaningful stats would also require breaking down sacks by situation. A sack given up on 3rd & 20 is a different animal from a sack given up on 1st and 10, right?

Given the difference between sacks in 2024 compared to 2023, you might investigate other stats for clues.

For example, compare for each season what our average yards-to-go was on 1st down, 2nd down, and 3rd down. What if last season we incurred more 1st down penalties and started behind the sticks more often? What if we faced more plays that were in obvious passing situations?

You never know... it might be that we had more sacks in '24 because we weren't as successful running the ball on 1st down.

But most likely, in a game like football that has as many moving parts on each play... it was a combination of many things. As they say in coach-speak (but truthfully), "We had too many plays where all but one player ran the play perfectly. Each time a different player, a different failure, but always just enough to prevent the play from succeeding."
 
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#32
#32
BruisedOrange said:
So let me see if I can summarize the factors that can produce a high sack count. On a given play...

1. One or more OL fail in physicality or blocking technique
2. One or more OL fail mentally or in communication, to pick up the stunt or blitzer
3. RB fails in physicality or technique to block the free rusher
4. RB fails mentally or in communication to be in position to block the free rusher
5. QB tucks the ball to run prematurely, before the rush has been spread out to create running lanes
6. QB holds the ball too long because he's not reading & deciding quickly enough
7. QB holds the ball too long because the receivers are running routes incorrectly or late
8. QB holds the ball too long because the receivers are unable to create separation and get open

It's my guess that (and I'm not trying to complicate things just to be difficult) to have meaningful stats would also require breaking down sacks by situation. A sack given up on 3rd & 20 is a different animal from a sack given up on 1st and 10, right?

Given the difference between sacks in 2024 compared to 2023, you might investigate other stats for clues.

For example, compare for each season what our average yards-to-go was on 1st down, 2nd down, and 3rd down. What if last season we incurred more 1st down penalties and started behind the sticks more often? What if we faced more plays that were in obvious passing situations?

You never know... it might be that we had more sacks in '24 because we weren't as successful running the ball on 1st down.

But most likely, in a game like football that has as many moving parts on each play... it was a combination of many things. As they say in coach-speak (but truthfully), "We had too many plays where all but one player ran the play perfectly. Each time a different player, a different failure, but always just enough to prevent the play from succeeding."
Click to expand...
This is fair, and I’m too lazy to dig that much. OL penalties were a huge factor last year. 1st down and 3rd and short penalties galore created more obvious pass plays. There were several instances where teams would get multiple sacks in a row against us, and they were obviously blown OL plays. Many on drives where we had momentum and were on the short side of the field. Nothing we could do.

If we didn’t have Sampson, we would have been screwed. People point out how good our rushing was as a testament to our OL, but another not so obvious stat are the yards Sampson created after contact at or behind the line of scrimmage last year.

There was so much of that, the announcers began to comment on it. I get not everything is the OL’s fault, but they were just plain bad in my opinion.
 
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#35
#35
BruisedOrange said:
So let me see if I can summarize the factors that can produce a high sack count. On a given play...

1. One or more OL fail in physicality or blocking technique
2. One or more OL fail mentally or in communication, to pick up the stunt or blitzer
3. RB fails in physicality or technique to block the free rusher
4. RB fails mentally or in communication to be in position to block the free rusher
5. QB tucks the ball to run prematurely, before the rush has been spread out to create running lanes
6. QB holds the ball too long because he's not reading & deciding quickly enough
7. QB holds the ball too long because the receivers are running routes incorrectly or late
8. QB holds the ball too long because the receivers are unable to create separation and get open

It's my guess that (and I'm not trying to complicate things just to be difficult) to have meaningful stats would also require breaking down sacks by situation. A sack given up on 3rd & 20 is a different animal from a sack given up on 1st and 10, right?

Given the difference between sacks in 2024 compared to 2023, you might investigate other stats for clues.

For example, compare for each season what our average yards-to-go was on 1st down, 2nd down, and 3rd down. What if last season we incurred more 1st down penalties and started behind the sticks more often? What if we faced more plays that were in obvious passing situations?

You never know... it might be that we had more sacks in '24 because we weren't as successful running the ball on 1st down.

But most likely, in a game like football that has as many moving parts on each play... it was a combination of many things. As they say in coach-speak (but truthfully), "We had too many plays where all but one player ran the play perfectly. Each time a different player, a different failure, but always just enough to prevent the play from succeeding."
Click to expand...
Which a good summary of this is football is a team sport that requires 11 people on each side of the ball to execute in order to be successful. Not just a QB like some want to think.
 
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#38
#38
miket4god said:
I agree with all of that. I will say however that even with our limited talent at the WR position, there were a LOT of open WR behind the defense that were missed by the QB.
How is the WR room perceived if they had a dozen more TD's last year?
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Yea, Nico was as slow as Joe at seeing the field. Hopefully Merk will be better
 
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#39
#39
vegasvolfan said:
Apologies if there is a thread solely on this, I conducted a titles only search and saw nothing but a mid-season post that was telling of these stats. This does not include hurries.

2024-2025 - 87th
2023-2024 - 56th

College Football Stats - College FB Team QB Sacked per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football qb sacked per game, by team.
www.teamrankings.com www.teamrankings.com

Some observations.

No QB can be great at 87th in sacks allowed.

56th was bad enough. What a drop off from bad enough. Clearly, you can’t be headed the wrong direction on OL and expect an elite QB to play well, let alone want to stay. Sort of redundant, but more with respect to trend,trajectory than single season stats.

I have said this once already, the knocks against Heupel missing on QBs and on the QBs themselves are a little off IMO. He worked wonders with Milton and his line was wasn’t that good. There were injuries in that season at line as well. I believe Milton would have realized 10 wins had our line stayed healthy. I think we would have been better with an elite OL every year he has been here, which we have been far from for many years. Best OL line we have had is DW’s senior season, and we were only better than average that year. (Hooker was destroyed by GA and SC’s line.)

As far as Nico goes, he showed signs of serious growth in his first year as a starter, despite spending way too much time on his butt. I didn’t like his move for more money, but requiring us to go out and spend big to get an elite offensive line is understandable. Where we have the most serious issues with talent in my opinion is OL.

I still think Heupel has a bit of a loyalty complex after his experience at Oklahoma. I think that has worked out in some areas, but I think it is hurting us at WR and OL. Our receivers have gotten worse since Pope was promoted from within, and I just outlined our OL situation.

Too late to make any changes this year, and I respect Heupel for his loyalty. But at what point do his words about no one being bigger than the Power T apply to his coaching loyalty?

Perhaps I’m wrong and I’m wide open for other opinions and clarifications. I’m no coach, and I don’t stay up to date on this stuff as much as I used to, so I’m constantly guessing. Plus, I have seen some things not work before with this staff, which impacts my trust and patience tremendously.
Click to expand...
You’re wrong and right.

Nico held the ball too long- too often.
- this was because guys weren’t open
- this was because the Dcoordinators often knew what we were running
- this is because Halzle is predictable

Sometimes it was the oline just getting beat. Sometimes it was Nico breaking the pocket too fast and using his running ability.


But the majority of the time, it was because our play calling was patterned and it made us easy to defend.
 
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#40
#40
vegasvolfan said:
Apologies if there is a thread solely on this, I conducted a titles only search and saw nothing but a mid-season post that was telling of these stats. This does not include hurries.

2024-2025 - 87th
2023-2024 - 56th

College Football Stats - College FB Team QB Sacked per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football qb sacked per game, by team.
www.teamrankings.com www.teamrankings.com

Some observations.

No QB can be great at 87th in sacks allowed.

56th was bad enough. What a drop off from bad enough. Clearly, you can’t be headed the wrong direction on OL and expect an elite QB to play well, let alone want to stay. Sort of redundant, but more with respect to trend,trajectory than single season stats.

I have said this once already, the knocks against Heupel missing on QBs and on the QBs themselves are a little off IMO. He worked wonders with Milton and his line was wasn’t that good. There were injuries in that season at line as well. I believe Milton would have realized 10 wins had our line stayed healthy. I think we would have been better with an elite OL every year he has been here, which we have been far from for many years. Best OL line we have had is DW’s senior season, and we were only better than average that year. (Hooker was destroyed by GA and SC’s line.)

As far as Nico goes, he showed signs of serious growth in his first year as a starter, despite spending way too much time on his butt. I didn’t like his move for more money, but requiring us to go out and spend big to get an elite offensive line is understandable. Where we have the most serious issues with talent in my opinion is OL.

I still think Heupel has a bit of a loyalty complex after his experience at Oklahoma. I think that has worked out in some areas, but I think it is hurting us at WR and OL. Our receivers have gotten worse since Pope was promoted from within, and I just outlined our OL situation.

Too late to make any changes this year, and I respect Heupel for his loyalty. But at what point do his words about no one being bigger than the Power T apply to his coaching loyalty?

Perhaps I’m wrong and I’m wide open for other opinions and clarifications. I’m no coach, and I don’t stay up to date on this stuff as much as I used to, so I’m constantly guessing. Plus, I have seen some things not work before with this staff, which impacts my trust and patience tremendously.
Click to expand...
Lots of those sacks imo were the qb holding the ball too long. They were very slow in getting rid of the ball, lots of times.
 
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#41
#41
vegasvolfan said:
Apologies if there is a thread solely on this, I conducted a titles only search and saw nothing but a mid-season post that was telling of these stats. This does not include hurries.

2024-2025 - 87th
2023-2024 - 56th

College Football Stats - College FB Team QB Sacked per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football qb sacked per game, by team.
www.teamrankings.com www.teamrankings.com

Some observations.

No QB can be great at 87th in sacks allowed.

56th was bad enough. What a drop off from bad enough. Clearly, you can’t be headed the wrong direction on OL and expect an elite QB to play well, let alone want to stay. Sort of redundant, but more with respect to trend,trajectory than single season stats.

I have said this once already, the knocks against Heupel missing on QBs and on the QBs themselves are a little off IMO. He worked wonders with Milton and his line was wasn’t that good. There were injuries in that season at line as well. I believe Milton would have realized 10 wins had our line stayed healthy. I think we would have been better with an elite OL every year he has been here, which we have been far from for many years. Best OL line we have had is DW’s senior season, and we were only better than average that year. (Hooker was destroyed by GA and SC’s line.)

As far as Nico goes, he showed signs of serious growth in his first year as a starter, despite spending way too much time on his butt. I didn’t like his move for more money, but requiring us to go out and spend big to get an elite offensive line is understandable. Where we have the most serious issues with talent in my opinion is OL.

I still think Heupel has a bit of a loyalty complex after his experience at Oklahoma. I think that has worked out in some areas, but I think it is hurting us at WR and OL. Our receivers have gotten worse since Pope was promoted from within, and I just outlined our OL situation.

Too late to make any changes this year, and I respect Heupel for his loyalty. But at what point do his words about no one being bigger than the Power T apply to his coaching loyalty?

Perhaps I’m wrong and I’m wide open for other opinions and clarifications. I’m no coach, and I don’t stay up to date on this stuff as much as I used to, so I’m constantly guessing. Plus, I have seen some things not work before with this staff, which impacts my trust and patience tremendously.
Click to expand...

We were worse in 2022 than in 2023. A lot of sack numbers are QB and offense driven more so than offensive line.

Evasive QB=less sacks
Slow processing QB=more sacks
Quick passing game=less sacks
Play action passing game=more sacks.

Pace of play is also a problem with this stat. We play more snaps than most teams, so we are going to get more sacks due to increased attempts.

We play action a lot (not a bad thing), our past two QBs both seemed to process a tad slow and neither moved well in the pocket, our offense doesn’t utilize a lot of quick passes and greatly reduced the number of quick screens thrown vs previous seasons.

All of those factors increase sacks.
 
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#42
#42
LittleVol said:
You’re wrong and right.

Nico held the ball too long- too often.
- this was because guys weren’t open
- this was because the Dcoordinators often knew what we were running
- this is because Halzle is predictable

Sometimes it was the oline just getting beat. Sometimes it was Nico breaking the pocket too fast and using his running ability.


But the majority of the time, it was because our play calling was patterned and it made us easy to defend.
Click to expand...

The same way people know what option teams are doing, that shouldn’t be an issue. Our passing game is built on adjusting to the decision made by the defense. Meaning there’s always a counter built into the play.

The focus on predictability and the idea we don’t run enough plays is absurd.

Air raid teams were known for not flipping WRs because they didn’t want them to have to learn how to run slants/hitches/etc from multiple sides.

Mike Leach would tell coaches who were trying to add new plays to his offense, “great, but which play do you remove and replace it with?”

The best offenses aren’t the ones with the biggest playbooks. They’re the ones that do few things, incredibly well
 
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#43
#43
vegasvolfan said:
Apologies if there is a thread solely on this, I conducted a titles only search and saw nothing but a mid-season post that was telling of these stats. This does not include hurries.

2024-2025 - 87th
2023-2024 - 56th

College Football Stats - College FB Team QB Sacked per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football qb sacked per game, by team.
www.teamrankings.com www.teamrankings.com

Some observations.

No QB can be great at 87th in sacks allowed.

56th was bad enough. What a drop off from bad enough. Clearly, you can’t be headed the wrong direction on OL and expect an elite QB to play well, let alone want to stay. Sort of redundant, but more with respect to trend,trajectory than single season stats.

I have said this once already, the knocks against Heupel missing on QBs and on the QBs themselves are a little off IMO. He worked wonders with Milton and his line was wasn’t that good. There were injuries in that season at line as well. I believe Milton would have realized 10 wins had our line stayed healthy. I think we would have been better with an elite OL every year he has been here, which we have been far from for many years. Best OL line we have had is DW’s senior season, and we were only better than average that year. (Hooker was destroyed by GA and SC’s line.)

As far as Nico goes, he showed signs of serious growth in his first year as a starter, despite spending way too much time on his butt. I didn’t like his move for more money, but requiring us to go out and spend big to get an elite offensive line is understandable. Where we have the most serious issues with talent in my opinion is OL.

I still think Heupel has a bit of a loyalty complex after his experience at Oklahoma. I think that has worked out in some areas, but I think it is hurting us at WR and OL. Our receivers have gotten worse since Pope was promoted from within, and I just outlined our OL situation.

Too late to make any changes this year, and I respect Heupel for his loyalty. But at what point do his words about no one being bigger than the Power T apply to his coaching loyalty?

Perhaps I’m wrong and I’m wide open for other opinions and clarifications. I’m no coach, and I don’t stay up to date on this stuff as much as I used to, so I’m constantly guessing. Plus, I have seen some things not work before with this staff, which impacts my trust and patience tremendously.
Click to expand...
You hire your friends and you eventually have to fire your friends. The problem is that it’s years too late.
 
#44
#44
BigOrangeTrain said:
QB is important but our WRs have been terrible since the 2022 group left. Think about it. I know in 2023, the WRs dropped at least what would have been almost 10 TDs from Milton. Last year they were bad again. It’s not all QB.
Click to expand...
It isn’t all the QB, but you could make a very long clip of the easy throws Milton and Nico missed for TDs or huge gains.
 
#45
#45
ThreatLevelOrange said:
You hire your friends and you eventually have to fire your friends. The problem is that it’s years too late.
Click to expand...
That’s the thing, initially, his staff consisted of a bunch of guys he hasn’t worked with sans his OC and OL coaches. Maybe one or two others sprinkled in there?
 
#47
#47
BigOrangeTrain said:
And I can make just as long of a list of bad drops. Especially for Milton. Joe should have had at least 10 more TDs if not for drops.
Click to expand...
You’re gonna have some drops. Gonna have some overthrows too, but all you need to know about how Joe played is that a guy with his insane physical gifts started at two big time programs and only went in the 6th round of the draft.
 
#49
#49
vegasvolfan said:
Apologies if there is a thread solely on this, I conducted a titles only search and saw nothing but a mid-season post that was telling of these stats. This does not include hurries.

2024-2025 - 87th
2023-2024 - 56th

College Football Stats - College FB Team QB Sacked per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football qb sacked per game, by team.
www.teamrankings.com www.teamrankings.com

Some observations.

No QB can be great at 87th in sacks allowed.

56th was bad enough. What a drop off from bad enough. Clearly, you can’t be headed the wrong direction on OL and expect an elite QB to play well, let alone want to stay. Sort of redundant, but more with respect to trend,trajectory than single season stats.

I have said this once already, the knocks against Heupel missing on QBs and on the QBs themselves are a little off IMO. He worked wonders with Milton and his line was wasn’t that good. There were injuries in that season at line as well. I believe Milton would have realized 10 wins had our line stayed healthy. I think we would have been better with an elite OL every year he has been here, which we have been far from for many years. Best OL line we have had is DW’s senior season, and we were only better than average that year. (Hooker was destroyed by GA and SC’s line.)

As far as Nico goes, he showed signs of serious growth in his first year as a starter, despite spending way too much time on his butt. I didn’t like his move for more money, but requiring us to go out and spend big to get an elite offensive line is understandable. Where we have the most serious issues with talent in my opinion is OL.

I still think Heupel has a bit of a loyalty complex after his experience at Oklahoma. I think that has worked out in some areas, but I think it is hurting us at WR and OL. Our receivers have gotten worse since Pope was promoted from within, and I just outlined our OL situation.

Too late to make any changes this year, and I respect Heupel for his loyalty. But at what point do his words about no one being bigger than the Power T apply to his coaching loyalty?

Perhaps I’m wrong and I’m wide open for other opinions and clarifications. I’m no coach, and I don’t stay up to date on this stuff as much as I used to, so I’m constantly guessing. Plus, I have seen some things not work before with this staff, which impacts my trust and patience tremendously.
Click to expand...

Some, obviously not all, was the result of Nico not being able to read the field and holding the ball too long
 
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#50
#50
landscapingvol said:
Some, obviously not all, was the result of Nico not being able to read the field and holding the ball too long
Click to expand...
Not being "able" and missing open receivers are two different things. Some of the best when young miss wide open people. Do you think it was a matter of the former or the latter considering the differentiation?
 
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