Ruby Whitehorn dismissed from the team!

#401
#401
RetroVol said:
Can't know for sure, but often defendants in criminal cases are under instructions from their defense attorneys not to say anything to anyone. If, for example, Ruby gave a full accounting to Coach Kim, then Coach could be subpoenaed and compelled to to testify as to what Ruby said. As an admission against interest, this would be an exception to the normal exclusion of hearsay.

That's why, often, schools choose to wait until the criminal case is resolved to take final action just so they can hear the athlete's side. Of course, that doesn't prevent the school from suspending her from the team in the interim, as happened in Ruby's earlier incident.

I'm just sick for Ruby, Coach Kim and her staff, the administration, and the team. Disruptive for all, but potentially life-changing for Ruby. Just so sad.
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well written and well thought out
 
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#402
#402
volfan__18 said:
yeah his attitude toward this is very strange. i’m glad someone has called it out.
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Doesn’t surprise me a bit. Not that I agree with how he has expressed it should be handled. Somewhere, one of those chickens expressed how i think i am going to try to handle it. Allow it to play out. Support Coach Kim, her staff, and the administration, if it comes to that, in their decision.

Can you imagination having sat down yesterday to discuss this with your staff? I wonder if there are any “wild childs” on the staff? I could see the administration relieving her of the decision… or not, and letting her decide.
 
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#405
#405
Be interesting how Coach Kim handles the situation with Whitehorn. See a lot of people saying a few games probation and one more chance. I personally want her to be able to stay. I know she seems to be the kind of person that can't keep from messing up still think she needs three strikes for dismissal. We could suspend her three games or so and then anything else dismissal. I have to believe she is not dumb enough to get that third strike. I figure about half or more of athletes in college smoke weed just not dumb enough to drive it around in their car.
 
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#411
#411
I don’t anticipate the player being dismissed from the team. I will say that this doesn’t need to get personal. In no way would I judge this player from these incidents. From a basketball perspective, I think this may be a difficult setback for her to overcome. Even if she plays this season with the players on this roster she might not make it back in the rotation if/when she returns from a likely suspension. The young players are ready to step in and Nya Robertson, Jersey Wolfenberger, and Alyssa Latham are three players who in an expanded role will give you the same production 11-12 ppg and 6-7 rpg. Robertson could average over 15ppg in this system. Also you have to factor in Janiah Barker who can average 15ppg. Barker has averaged double figures twice in her career at Texas A&M. The only advantage she had prior to the incidents over these new players other than Latham was a year in the system. That has now been erased the more she is away from the team.
 
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#413
#413
RetroVol said:
Can't know for sure, but often defendants in criminal cases are under instructions from their defense attorneys not to say anything to anyone. If, for example, Ruby gave a full accounting to Coach Kim, then Coach could be subpoenaed and compelled to to testify as to what Ruby said. As an admission against interest, this would be an exception to the normal exclusion of hearsay.

That's why, often, schools choose to wait until the criminal case is resolved to take final action just so they can hear the athlete's side. Of course, that doesn't prevent the school from suspending her from the team in the interim, as happened in Ruby's earlier incident.

I'm just sick for Ruby, Coach Kim and her staff, the administration, and the team. Disruptive for all, but potentially life-changing for Ruby. Just so sad.
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If we were talking about an A felony like a murder, then perhaps you would be correct. We're not. It was a citation for marijuana possession. She wasn't arrested, no trip to jail, wasn't booked, no mug shot, none of that. Also, a misdemeanor citation does not automatically violate the terms of her probation on the previous charge because the new charge does not meet any of the criteria for violation in Tennessee. It's a non-violent offense that did not involve a weapon and it was not a felony. Any charge that would have violated her probation would have been flagged for the officer and she would have been taken into custody pending a revocation hearing. With a misdemeanor citation, all that would have happened related to the previous case is if her probation is supervised, then she would have to inform her probation officer of the citation within 24 hours, which I'm sure her attorney has done anyway.

Coach Jumper seems to think UT has or is on the verge of taking hasty action. I'm told that hasn't happened yet. My source expects a 4-5 game suspension, but not a dismissal. We'll see who is correct. I've been surprised before, but I would be stunned if a misdemeanor citation for marijuana is ground for removal from a college sports team in 2025, regardless of previous history. Remember, the NCAA doesn't even test for it anymore in its drug tests in the postseason.
 
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#415
#415
DeerPark12 said:
If we were talking about an A felony like a murder, then perhaps you would be correct. We're not. It was a citation for marijuana possession. She wasn't arrested, no trip to jail, wasn't booked, no mug shot, none of that. Also, a misdemeanor citation does not automatically violate the terms of her probation on the previous charge because the new charge does not meet any of the criteria for violation in Tennessee. It's a non-violent offense that did not involve a weapon and it was not a felony. Any charge that would have violated her probation would have been flagged for the officer and she would have been taken into custody pending a revocation hearing. With a misdemeanor citation, all that would have happened related to the previous case is if her probation is supervised, then she would have to inform her probation officer of the citation within 24 hours, which I'm sure her attorney has done anyway.

Coach Jumper seems to think UT has or is on the verge of taking hasty action. I'm told that hasn't happened yet. My source expects a 4-5 game suspension, but not a dismissal. We'll see who is correct. I've been surprised before, but I would be stunned if a misdemeanor citation for marijuana is ground for removal from a college sports team in 2025, regardless of previous history. Remember, the NCAA doesn't even test for it anymore in its drug tests in the postseason.
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I also heard from someone I trust to expect a suspension, not dismissal.
 
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#416
#416
DeerPark12 said:
...but I would be stunned if a misdemeanor citation for marijuana is ground for removal from a college sports team in 2025, regardless of previous history. Remember, the NCAA doesn't even test for it anymore in its drug tests in the postseason.
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Coach Caldwell made it clear that:

Whitehorn had to meet specific team standards to stay with the program and that the team would have moved on without her if she wasn't willing to make amends.

If your source is correct,,,the fallout from such a decision would be devastating. This is one time you should hope to be wrong DP
 
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#417
#417
Coach Jumper said:
Coach Caldwell made it clear that:

Whitehorn had to meet specific team standards to stay with the program and that the team would have moved on without her if she wasn't willing to make amends.

If your source is correct,,,the fallout from such a decision would be devastating. This is one time you should hope to be wrong DP
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What fallout should we expect from not dismissing a player over what is effectively a traffic ticket?

You've repeatedly said that "most people agree" with your position. First of all, I don't see that. A few people in this thread, maybe. The majority of Tennessee fans? Absolutely not. Second, we don't get a vote. The program is not run by a popular vote of fans, message board or otherwise.
 
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#418
#418
Coach Jumper said:
I'm not celebrating anything but the end of this thread!
I wanted her to turn things around as much as anyone,
The human side of me wants anything but her to suffer,,,The coaching side of me knows what one bad apple can do to a basket of good apples.

I am with you people as I am with my players...If you like me its your choice, if you don't its your choice, but I will be respected in the position I have held for 44 years and that is how I post,,,,NOT as a fan, but as a coach

Sorry to those who can't understand
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That is big jump to label her a "bad apple." She definitely made a poor choice but she is not the first college kid to be out late with some weed in the car.

In retrospect, I think a lot of folks who are praying that she can be saved from her destructive path and overcome her crippling demons are too making a big leap. We have two data points on her: the domestic conflict incident and this misdemeanor infraction. She may also be a straight A student and doing tons of community work for all we know.


If she does get away with a few game suspension, as suggested up thread, Ruby needs to be a veritable nun for the remainder of her time as a LV. Stuff like this can hurt someone's draft. She needs to show that these events are aberrations and not the norm.
 
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#419
#419
VolBall09 said:
To be fair FSU paid out nearly a $1,000,000 settlement to a woman sexually assaulted by Jamies Winston in college. He was also arrested for theft and several other issues and continued to play.

Is there a sexist double standard regarding women’s legal issues in college sports? Debate.
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IMG_4230.gif
 
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#421
#421
KnoxLikeUs said:
I don’t anticipate the player being dismissed from the team. I will say that this doesn’t need to get personal. In no way would I judge this player from these incidents. From a basketball perspective, I think this may be a difficult setback for her to overcome. Even if she plays this season with the players on this roster she might not make it back in the rotation if/when she returns from a likely suspension. The young players are ready to step in and Nya Robertson, Jersey Wolfenberger, and Alyssa Latham are three players who in an expanded role will give you the same production 11-12 ppg and 6-7 rpg. Robertson could average over 15ppg in this system. Also you have to factor in Janiah Barker who can average 15ppg. Barker has averaged double figures twice in her career at Texas A&M. The only advantage she had prior to the incidents over these new players other than Latham was a year in the system. That has now been erased the more she is away from the team.
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I was thinking about what would this team be if Ruby were dismissed. I think it would be a bigger loss than suggested above. Most obviously depth is big need for this system. Ruby is one of the most skilled offensive players on the team and another athletic and rangy defender, Most of all she is very experienced and has a year of working in CKC's system. This freshman class looks awesome but there are still learning curves and adjustments that are part of being a first year college player. Losing a skilled experienced player who fits the system perfectly would be a blow.

So, yes, the LVs could fill the gap but I think not having Ruby would lower the team's ceiling a bit.
 
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#423
#423
madtownvol said:
I was thinking about what would this team be if Ruby were dismissed. I think it would be a bigger loss than suggested above. Most obviously depth is big need for this system. Ruby is one of the most skilled offensive players on the team and another athletic and rangy defender, Most of all she is very experienced and has a year of working in CKC's system. This freshman class looks awesome but there are still learning curves and adjustments that are part of being a first year college player. Losing a skilled experienced player who fits the system perfectly would be a blow.

So, yes, the LVs could fill the gap but I think not having Ruby would lower the team's ceiling a bit.
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I look for Jaida to fill the gap, if Ruby is suspended for a substantial period or dismissed from the team. GBO.
 
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