RTI:Breaking down Butch Jones record at Tennessee

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Ok. Sorry. It was a monumental win. Allow me to revel & bask in it's glory.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

We've gone from ranked close to 70 to top ten.. so what's the problem?

Very fickle fanbase. I mean honestly, who in their right mind would have ever expected Tennessee to ever be ranked again in say October of 2012? I know I didnt.

 

[Other_Guy]

Ok so what year is Butch in? 2013 was year zero because he didn't have any talent other than an all NFL O-line. 2014 was also year zero because all his players were freshmen. 2015 was year zero because he didn't have any players who had been on a plane. I guess 2016 is year one, wait he said we only have 11 seniors, guess we're back to year zero

Year zero?

Derek, shouldn't you be tending to your guys in Dallas right now?

 

[Other_Guy]

Florida, Georgia & Alabama are the games of importance. Signature, if you will. LSU & AU would also fit that bill, as the War Eagles are a traditional rival, and the Tigers are a top tier program since Saban & Miles. That South Carolina win doesn't measure up as a top level win. People have to keep trying to over-sell it imo. It was what it was. Not much of significance @ all.

This is a joke. So if Bama went 8-4 this year i suppose its a bigges win than that SC squad? Quit looking at their name and realize that was a really good team Butch beat.

 

[Boca Vol]

No I don't have to agree that you go for 2. I actually vehemently disagree with going for 2 there. Cowardly call. Tells me Butch doesn't think his offense can score again, his defense can't get a stop, and tells me he is afraid of a comeback. He made the right call. They converted a ton of fourth downs because Jancek was too conservative. Oh look Butch went and fixed that.

I was watching a replay of the Ole Miss/ Bama game and Ole Miss was up 12 early in the 4th & they went for 2. They didn't make it but going for 2 is the correct call. Being up 13 doesn't do a lot of good.

You're basically saying your opponent is going to score 3 times. Not very likely.

 

[Iam4utalways]

He didn't? How can you say that? Muschamp broke records for futility and ineptness at UF. Broke a 30 year bowl streak, first losing record in 30 years, first loss a D-2 team in decades, lowest win total in decades, and of course took a school that was known as having one of the sexiest offenses in college football history under Spurrier and Meyer to a point where they literally could not execute a screen pass. It was horrific.

Mac won Coach of Year for a good reason. To take Muschamp's disaster and turn it into a SEC east title in year 1 was a helluva job.

Dooley was the worst Vol coach in the history of the Vols. In another thread it's discussed that he was the best of worst SEC coaches. No Vol football team has ever lost 8 games in a season. Your worst is worse than our worst.
Swamp Donkey may be the answer but for now the jury is still out. He may have peaked his 1st year, with Mudchump's players.

 

[Volnukem]

I was watching a replay of the Ole Miss/ Bama game and Ole Miss was up 12 early in the 4th & they went for 2. They didn't make it but going for 2 is the correct call. Being up 13 doesn't do a lot of good.

You're basically saying your opponent is going to score 3 times. Not very likely.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree. Going for 2 there is playing not to lose. Take the points. Going for two only matters if they score two unanswered touchdowns, which they did. If you get it, you are going into overtime, which you probably lose as the away team having just surrendered two unanswered touchdowns. If you don't, you lose anyway. The odds are not in your favor either way. You are playing not to lose, which is not a good philosophy. If you are playing to win, you take the points. At that point in the game, at most you expect two more possessions. They need to score two touchdowns on both of their last possessions. All you need is a field goal to put the game out of reach, assuming they go for 1 after they score on their first possession, which they did.

Going for two would have been the wrong decision because the only scenario where it benefits us is if we get it and they score two unanswered touchdowns. Even then, the best case is going to overtime, which we likely lose. Take the points and make a field goal, which we missed by one foot, and the game is out of reach. Not going for 2 was Butch playing to win, which I prefer.

 

[Iam4utalways]

This is a joke. So if Bama went 8-4 this year i suppose its a bigges win than that SC squad? Quit looking at their name and realize that was a really good team Butch beat.

This could end up being a anticlimactic run. Beat Bama twice, win a NC, and set defensive records, that's a good way to continue out winning streak.

See you in Tampa.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree. Going for 2 there is playing not to lose. Take the points. Going for two only matters if they score two unanswered touchdowns, which they did. If you get it, you are going into overtime, which you probably lose as the away team having just surrendered two unanswered touchdowns. If you don't, you lose anyway. The odds are not in your favor either way. You are playing not to lose, which is not a good philosophy. If you are playing to win, you take the points. At that point in the game, at most you expect two more possessions. They need to score two touchdowns on both of their last possessions. All you need is a field goal to put the game out of reach, assuming they go for 1 after they score on their first possession, which they did.

Going for two would have been the wrong decision because the only scenario where it benefits us is if we get it and they score two unanswered touchdowns. Even then, the best case is going to overtime, which we likely lose. Take the points and make a field goal, which we missed by one foot, and the game is out of reach. Not going for 2 was Butch playing to win, which I prefer.

All that and CBJ thought he had enough points with 27 and turned it over to the defense. Florida went 5-5 on 4th down to win the game. We went 3 an out and then missed a 55 yd FG to lose.

The only reason I would say go for 2, I know what happened when we didn't, and at the time I was hoping that it didn't matter. It mattered.

 

[Boca Vol]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree. Going for 2 there is playing not to lose. Take the points. Going for two only matters if they score two unanswered touchdowns, which they did. If you get it, you are going into overtime, which you probably lose as the away team having just surrendered two unanswered touchdowns. If you don't, you lose anyway. The odds are not in your favor either way. You are playing not to lose, which is not a good philosophy. If you are playing to win, you take the points. At that point in the game, at most you expect two more possessions. They need to score two touchdowns on both of their last possessions. All you need is a field goal to put the game out of reach, assuming they go for 1 after they score on their first possession, which they did.

Going for two would have been the wrong decision because the only scenario where it benefits us is if we get it and they score two unanswered touchdowns. Even then, the best case is going to overtime, which we likely lose. Take the points and make a field goal, which we missed by one foot, and the game is out of reach. Not going for 2 was Butch playing to win, which I prefer.

Good grief! WTF does the FG, by UT, mean in your scenario? If UT makes that FG they win matter if they went for 2 or not. They would have won 29-28 or 30-28. You go for 2 plain & simple.

Kicking the PAT only meant UT would need to score again to win the game.

 

[Volnukem]

Good grief! WTF does the FG, by UT, mean in your scenario? If UT makes that FG they win matter if they went for 2 or not. They would have won 29-28 or 30-28. You go for 2 plain & simple.

Kicking the PAT only meant UT would need to score again to win the game.

That last sentence refutes your own argument. Going for two only meant we would have to win in overtime even if we got it, which requires us scoring again to win.

Did you forget that UF could go for 2? If the score was 26-27 UF would have went for 2 to make it 26-29 not 26-28.

Again, your last sentence refutes your own argument. Going for two only matters if we choke and give up two unanswered touchdowns. Even if we got it, we have to score again to win. If you want to win in regulation, take the points and play defense.

 

[08Vol]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree. Going for 2 there is playing not to lose. Take the points. Going for two only matters if they score two unanswered touchdowns, which they did. If you get it, you are going into overtime, which you probably lose as the away team having just surrendered two unanswered touchdowns. If you don't, you lose anyway. The odds are not in your favor either way. You are playing not to lose, which is not a good philosophy. If you are playing to win, you take the points. At that point in the game, at most you expect two more possessions. They need to score two touchdowns on both of their last possessions. All you need is a field goal to put the game out of reach, assuming they go for 1 after they score on their first possession, which they did.

Going for two would have been the wrong decision because the only scenario where it benefits us is if we get it and they score two unanswered touchdowns. Even then, the best case is going to overtime, which we likely lose. Take the points and make a field goal, which we missed by one foot, and the game is out of reach. Not going for 2 was Butch playing to win, which I prefer.

It's entertaining watching you try to fit that stupid square coaching peg into a round hole. I would love to hear Butch tell his guys after the game "I didn't want to go for two because I knew if we went to overtime you all would have just lost there". Either Butch made a bad call to go for 1 or he is covering for an assistant coach who made a bad call by sending the kicking team out.

 

[Volnukem]

It's entertaining watching you try to fit that stupid square coaching peg into a round hole. I would love to hear Butch tell his guys after the game "I didn't want to go for two because I knew if we went to overtime you all would have just lost there". Either Butch made a bad call to go for 1 or he is covering for an assistant coach who made a bad call by sending the kicking team out.

So you think it's better for him to tell his team during the game "I don't think you can hold on to a 14 point lead." Most coaches will flat out tell you they want to win in regulation and avoid overtime.

 

[Catbone]

Have you enjoyed watching the rebuild? I have really enjoyed it and we're set for a very good future.

Other than the ridiculous heartbreaking losses last year I sure have

 

[08Vol]

So you think it's better for him to tell his team during the game "I don't think you can hold on to a 14 point lead." Most coaches will flat out tell you they want to win in regulation and avoid overtime.

I think he should tell his team the same thing that all my coaches have told me through their words and actions "I've put you in the best position to win". Well Butch got his wish and got to lose in regulation instead of overtime. What you're missing is with 8 minutes left UF wasn't going to get the ball 3 more times, so they knew they had to get 2 TDs. By choosing the extra point instead of going for 2 his only hope was that the UF kicker would miss an extra point if they scored.

 

[RMSmallwood]

Ok. Sorry. It was a monumental win. Allow me to revel & bask in it's glory.

My point is simply that you cannot disregard an impressive win by Butch over an exceptional team because you feel like their name recognition is not up to par. SCAR was very impressive that year and if I'm not supposed to care about that win, then why should I care about a loss to teams that had a much higher level of talent than ours? I care about the wins and the losses but see that we are moving in the right direction. I see the good and the bad. I don't think anyone is arguing that Butch is the greatest coach of all time but to look at what has been done in this situation and disregard anything he has done against a team other than a traditional rival doesn't make sense. He has to win against those rivals regularly starting this year, obviously. If he can't do any better than last year again this year, it'll be extremely hard for anyone to believe he's the guy. But there is no good argument to take away from the fact that SCAR In 2013 was a outstanding win.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I think he should tell his team the same thing that all my coaches have told me through their words and actions "I've put you in the best position to win". Well Butch got his wish and got to lose in regulation instead of overtime. What you're missing is with 8 minutes left UF wasn't going to get the ball 3 more times, so they knew they had to get 2 TDs. By choosing the extra point instead of going for 2 his only hope was that the UF kicker would miss an extra point if they scored.

Or the defense stop them on either drive. At the time it was a miscalculation. CBJ thought he had enough points to win, he was wrong. After the fact sure he should have went for it to force OT instead of losing in regulation. At the time I was hoping I was worried for no reason. There was reason. Bummer.

 

[Volnukem]

I think he should tell his team the same thing that all my coaches have told me through their words and actions "I've put you in the best position to win". Well Butch got his wish and got to lose in regulation instead of overtime. What you're missing is with 8 minutes left UF wasn't going to get the ball 3 more times, so they knew they had to get 2 TDs. By choosing the extra point instead of going for 2 his only hope was that the UF kicker would miss an extra point if they scored.

His only hope? No. All we needed was one stop. One long drive or one score and we win. You have that playing not to lose mentality too.

You were right about one thing though. He knew they only had two possessions left. Playing to win is figuring out the best way to get a 3 score lead. He knew UF had to score a touchdown on the next drive and had to go for one, which they did. At that point, you know they have one drive left. So let's break down the three possible scenarios from there.

UF has 21 points. If you went for 2 and got it, then a field goal would make it 31-21. They have to score twice with less than four minutes left. If you go for 1 and get it, the score is 30-21. They still have to score twice to win. If you went for 2 and didn't get it, the score is 29-21. The game is still within reach for the gators.

This is the exact analysis upper echelon coaches go through. This is why they have a chart that is more complicated that the football for dummies chart everyone on here seems to love. Butch was playing to win by giving his team the best opportunity to put the game out of reach instead of hoping we didn't choke or overtime.

 

[Volnukem]

I'm getting tired of arguing this point. Maybe those that disagree can go argue with Coach Belicheck. He made the same decision a couple weeks after we did against the Colts and he won. As bad as I hate the Patriots, he is also one of the best coaches ever. Go tell him it was a dumb decision and he sucks at coaching.

Patriots vs. Colts - Play-By-Play - October 18, 2015 - ESPN

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I'm getting tired of arguing this point. Maybe those that disagree can go argue with Coach Belicheck. He made the same decision a couple weeks after we did against the Colts and he won. As bad as I hate the Patriots, he is also one of the best coaches ever. Go tell him it was a dumb decision and he sucks at coaching.

Patriots vs. Colts - Play-By-Play - October 18, 2015 - ESPN

Good because its a ridiculous argument. Nobody on this board coaches CFB on the level that Butch Jones does. When you do, and are put in the exact same situation as Butch, then talk. In hindsight, was it a dumb decision? Maybe. Maybe not. The fact is even if he would have went for two and made it, that still would not have guaranteed anything.

Its comical sometimes to watch people on here try and think they know football better than any active coach at a high level. If it were that easy, then you would be coaching making 3 million a year. You're just another couch potato fan that sits back and thinks he knows what should or should not have been. A couple of defensive stops and this isnt even a conversation. Quit thinking everything fits into a neat little box. Football kaint like that.

 

[Volnukem]

Good because its a ridiculous argument. Nobody on this board coaches CFB on the level that Butch Jones does. When you do, and are put in the exact same situation as Butch, then talk. In hindsight, was it a dumb decision? Maybe. Maybe not. The fact is even if he would have went for two and made it, that still would not have guaranteed anything.

Its comical sometimes to watch people on here try and think they know football better than any active coach at a high level. If it were that easy, then you would be coaching making 3 million a year. You're just another couch potato fan that sits back and thinks he knows what should or should not have been. A couple of defensive stops and this isnt even a conversation. Quit thinking everything fits into a neat little box. Football kaint like that.

Honestly, that's all fair, but this is a message board. Also, BOT you do realize which side of the argument on right. I have been the one trying to convince everyone here of the same thing you just said. Belicheck kicked the PAT just like Butch did.

 

[ReaderVol]

Good grief! WTF does the FG, by UT, mean in your scenario? If UT makes that FG they win matter if they went for 2 or not. They would have won 29-28 or 30-28. You go for 2 plain & simple.

Kicking the PAT only meant UT would need to score again to win the game.

Or maybe it would mean stopping Florida on just ONE 4th down...

 

[Other_Guy]

That last sentence refutes your own argument. Going for two only meant we would have to win in overtime even if we got it, which requires us scoring again to win.

Did you forget that UF could go for 2? If the score was 26-27 UF would have went for 2 to make it 26-29 not 26-28.

Again, your last sentence refutes your own argument. Going for two only matters if we choke and give up two unanswered touchdowns. Even if we got it, we have to score again to win. If you want to win in regulation, take the points and play defense.

I never really thought about a playing not to lose mentality in going for 2. I would have still went for 2, but the way UT was playing and UF was not in such a short amount of time, I can see the "lets go for 2 cuz we aren't confident we can keep them from scoring 2 quick TDs". The problem i have with the team, is if they had had a 7 point lead, the lack of urgency and determination to go out and finish the game not being there would make sense... Its the fact they only.lead by 6 and did not have the urgency to make sure Florida didn't score! When UT is up 7 I feel a little relaxed saying "at worse we can't lose in regulation" but true, that is the wrong mentality. The opposing team is still playing tough cuz theyre losing, whether by 4 or 8. Good point

 

[Boca Vol]

Or maybe it would mean stopping Florida on just ONE 4th down...

Well, of course. But stopping UF on 4th down and the decision to go for 2 aren't related. The decision to go for 2 is based on math, time left, etc.

Actually making the 2 point conversion or stopping them on 4th down is based on execution.

 

[RMSmallwood]

Or maybe it would mean stopping Florida on just ONE 4th down...

There were so many plays like that this season.. I know it's Butch's job to say stuff like we were one play away but seriously, we were one play away in 3 of our 4 losses. (ARK was more than one play away from being able to not lose that lead imo) that's why I don't really get hung up on the FG instead of going for it against OK or not going for 2 against UF. While they were both the wrong calls (imo of course, although as another poster rightly noted, I am not skilled enough to be paid 3 million dollars to coach so take it with a grain of salt) they never should have mattered because we should've won those games regardless. It's impossible to know at the time what play it's going to be. Let's hope Butch can get those plays this year!