Romney what are you doing???

#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
Well, I don't think that was what you are "laughing" at. I think you had assumed (incorrectly) that 47 % of households don't pay any income tax because that's the talking point that's been (falsely) put out there for quite some time by the GOP.

Its a lie that they have managed to get a lot of people to believe, so don't feel too bad about it.
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no I'm a bit smarter than that and can understand the difference. The number is most often qualified with the word income. Just because it wasn't in this particular instance doesn't make the statement less true. In fact, the number is likely higher. What you fail to see is that even with payroll taxes they are still a net loss of govt dollars. That is unsustainable unless Obama gets his wish and the "rich" are forced to make up the difference. Even then it still is a drain we won't likely recover from
 
#53
#53
Gramps said:
They are included in the 47% that pay no income tax.

TaxVox » Blog Archive » Why Do People Pay No Federal Income Tax?



Nontaxable-TEs.smaller.gif





Mitt Romney, caught on video tape - The Washington Post


Some 44 percent of those who do not pay income taxes are because they benefit from tax benefits aimed at the elderly, while another 30 percent benefit from tax credits for children or for the working poor.
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Gramps, take a deep breath.

My only point was that this statement just might not hurt MR because almost no one believes they fall into that 47% for one reason or the other.
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
Mmmmmm.... depends on how you define it I suppose.
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the official terms are federal income tax and payroll tax.

if you are self-employed you know that your payroll tax is termed self-employment tax; not income tax.

Payroll tax is not the same as income tax even though it uses income as the basis for determining the payroll tax liability.
 
#55
#55
utvolpj said:
why is it the govt's job to provide for older citizens?
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Are the seniors that have worked 40-50 years and have paid into the social security system not entitled to recieve their social security after retiring?

The topic is about the 47% that Romney says do not pay income tax.
Seniors are a big part part of that group, 44%.
 
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#56
#56
Gramps said:
Are the seniors that have worked 40-50 years and have paid into the social security system not entitled to recieve their social security after retiring?

The topic is about the 47% that Romney says do not pay income tax.
Seniors are the largest part of that group.
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why are they entitled but I'm not? Are they entitled to more than they put in? Should I be forced to supplement their shortcomings?

Frankly the whole thing is a scam that was destined to fail from the start.

and yes I understand seniors are part of that group. However they are still sucking resources from the govt so they should be counted. Retirement is not a right
 
#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
Well, I don't think that was what you are "laughing" at. I think you had assumed (incorrectly) that 47 % of households don't pay any income tax because that's the talking point that's been (falsely) put out there for quite some time by the GOP.

Its a lie that they have managed to get a lot of people to believe, so don't feel too bad about it.
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Payroll tax (7.65%) is distinct from income tax. Moreover, if you want to bolster your argument by stating that individuals are not free-riding because they pay into Social Security and Medicare trusts, you face some difficult obstacles.

1. Individuals reap much more benefit from these trusts than they pay in; hence, these trusts are going bankrupt.

2. These trusts do not account for the services that individuals who do not pay Federal Income Tax use on a daily basis: they are still using those services for free.

Thus, Romney's remark that such individuals are dependent upon the government and that the DNC platform is aimed at creating more dependency, a dependency not aimed at simple safety nets but aimed at improved quality of life, is absolutely correct.

Spin away, LG.
 
#58
#58
utvolpj said:
no I'm a bit smarter than that and can understand the difference. The number is most often qualified with the word income. Just because it wasn't in this particular instance doesn't make the statement less true. In fact, the number is likely higher. What you fail to see is that even with payroll taxes they are still a net loss of govt dollars. That is unsustainable unless Obama gets his wish and the "rich" are forced to make up the difference. Even then it still is a drain we won't likely recover from
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Spending outstrips revenue? No way ! I had no idea ....



volinbham said:
the official terms are federal income tax and payroll tax.

if you are self-employed you know that your payroll tax is termed self-employment tax; not income tax.

Payroll tax is not the same as income tax even though it uses income as the basis for determining the payroll tax liability.
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Ok, then he (and the GOP) need to be more honest and accurate and say that, while over 80 percent of households pay taxes based on making an income, 47 % don;t pay income tax.
 
#59
#59
VolFan32 said:
How many times do people need to read that Obama wants government in control of almost every aspect of our lives?

VOTE BIGGER GOVERNMENT AND MORE DEBT
VOTE OBAMA!
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That's the phoney sales pitch. President Obama did not start Espionage Nation. The government knows everything about you: what you think, what you say, where you go, what you do, what you buy... President Bush started that, not Obama, and Bush took a balanced budget from Clinton and exploded it back into debt to do it. Obama is afraid to end espionage nation because he lacks the support with all of the bull propagated by the far right machine, that he is weak on defense. They can't remember that 9/11 happened on W's watch and probably do not even care that Bush completely neglected counter-terorism until after 9/11, despite all of the warnings. They prefer believing lies; e.g. over 20% of Republican voters think he is a communist and a Muslim. They aren't even bothered by the fact that commies are atheists, Muslims are not atheists, and President Obama is an avowed Christian. There is no such thing as a communist Muslim. And a Muslim cannot convert to Christianity without receiving a death sentence. The point is that if you want to talk about bigger government, you better do some talking about Republicans, because they used 9/11 for exactly that.
 
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#63
#63
Not my problem that someone else's grandma will die if the government pulls the benefits.
therealUT

It isyour concern if you are a Christian.
 
#64
#64
lawgator1 said:
I think the larger thing to take away from this is that the GOP truly does have an us-versus-them mentality. They view the lower class as leeches. They pay lip service to raising all boats. But it is insincere.

I think that is ultimately why Romney is trailing in the polls so much right now. In this economy, you need to appear to be empathetic to the middle class. You need to reassure them that the government programs they have been paying into for all these years will be there for them, as planned, especially because people have not really saved well independently for retirement and pension plans, if applicable, look increasingly iffy.

I get what Romney means here. But it comes across as he is all about cutting off the lower and middle classes so the wealthy can be even wealthier. Not good. He'll take some serious hits over this in the ads.

BTW, the 46 (or 47) % figure is simply dead wrong. Most people pay taxes via a payroll tax. You know, because they work for a living. The percentage of households literally paying nothing in is much smaller, on the order of 18 %. So let's please get our facts straight.
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They both play class warfare.
 
#66
#66
Vol Main said:
Not my problem that someone else's grandma will die if the government pulls the benefits.
therealUT

It isyour concern if you are a Christian.
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why? Where in the bible does it say I must give money so the govt can keep someone else's relative alive?
 
#67
#67
Vol Main said:
Not my problem that someone else's grandma will die if the government pulls the benefits.
therealUT

It isyour concern if you are a

Christians have every right to assist her. However, non-Christians certainly don't want to help foot the bill.
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#68
#68
utvolpj said:
why are they entitled but I'm not? Are they entitled to more than they put in? Should I be forced to supplement their shortcomings?

Frankly the whole thing is a scam that was destined to fail from the start.

and yes I understand seniors are part of that group. However they are still sucking resources from the govt so they should be counted. Retirement is not a right
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This is an entirely differnt subject that can be debated.

This thread is about Romney 47% do not pay taxes and saying none of that 47% would vote for him.
That is not a correct statemnet by Romney. 44% of the 47% Romney is referring to are seniors. Seniors make up the largest voting block, and many, many seniors do vote republican and will vote for Romney because he has the R beside his name.

There are several weeks before the election with 3 debates. Romney keeps putting foot in mouth. If he does not stop doing so he is going to get beat bad in this election.

I think the pressser last night was a bad political move.

The news Sunday night about his campaign staff does not help.

The Libya ordeal last week.

His 3 nation trip did not go as planned.

All these things keep adding up. He is going to have to quit making dumb mistakes in order to have any chance to win this election.
 
#69
#69
Vols520 said:
They both play class warfare.
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Correct. I just think its peculiar when the GOP folks on here offer "That's just class warfare!" as a retort to every observation made by the Democrats about how the tax system favors the wealthiest.
 
#71
#71
lawgator1 said:
Correct. I just think its peculiar when the GOP folks on here offer "That's just class warfare!" as a retort to every observation made by the Democrats about how the tax system favors the wealthiest.
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It's clear he was saying he isnt going to waste his time trying to sway those voters.

The unfortunate thing is this is going to be the top story all week in the media when we should be focusing on many other issues.
 
#72
#72
Vol Main said:
That's the phoney sales pitch. President Obama did not start Espionage Nation. The government knows everything about you: what you think, what you say, where you go, what you do, what you buy... President Bush started that, not Obama, and Bush took a balanced budget from Clinton and exploded it back into debt to do it. Obama is afraid to end espionage nation because he lacks the support with all of the bull propagated by the far right machine, that he is weak on defense. They can't remember that 9/11 happened on W's watch and probably do not even care that Bush completely neglected counter-terorism until after 9/11, despite all of the warnings. They prefer believing lies; e.g. over 20% of Republican voters think he is a communist and a Muslim. They aren't even bothered by the fact that commies are atheists, Muslims are not atheists, and President Obama is an avowed Christian. There is no such thing as a communist Muslim. And a Muslim cannot convert to Christianity without receiving a death sentence. The point is that if you want to talk about bigger government, you better do some talking about Republicans, because they used 9/11 for exactly that.
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Agree with your points on Bush, but to think that Obama wants to end this is a joke. His record shows that anything he can do to let the government have more power, he will be all for it.

Also, you can't place all blame for 9/11 squarely on Bush. Clinton had more than one opporutnity to take OBL out and didn't.

I'm also not saying that the Repub's are going to be any better about shrinking government, but the record of the current POTUS is awful in that regard.
 
#74
#74
VolFan32 said:
Agree with your points on Bush, but to think that Obama wants to end this is a joke. His record shows that anything he can do to let the government have more power, he will be all for it.

Also, you can't place all blame for 9/11 squarely on Bush. Clinton had more than one opporutnity to take OBL out and didn't.

I'm also not saying that the Repub's are going to be any better about shrinking government, but the record of the current POTUS is awful in that regard.
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And this is what we should be talking about, RECORDS as Chief Executive. Romney let the gov's office with MA doing pretty good. Barry and his policies have made things worse.
 
#75
#75
Vol Main said:
That's the phoney sales pitch. President Obama did not start Espionage Nation. The government knows everything about you: what you think, what you say, where you go, what you do, what you buy... President Bush started that, not Obama, and Bush took a balanced budget from Clinton and exploded it back into debt to do it. Obama is afraid to end espionage nation because he lacks the support with all of the bull propagated by the far right machine, that he is weak on defense. They can't remember that 9/11 happened on W's watch and probably do not even care that Bush completely neglected counter-terorism until after 9/11, despite all of the warnings. They prefer believing lies; e.g. over 20% of Republican voters think he is a communist and a Muslim. They aren't even bothered by the fact that commies are atheists, Muslims are not atheists, and President Obama is an avowed Christian. There is no such thing as a communist Muslim. And a Muslim cannot convert to Christianity without receiving a death sentence. The point is that if you want to talk about bigger government, you better do some talking about Republicans, because they used 9/11 for exactly that.
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You keep all that logic to yourself : P
 
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