Rivalry?

[KBVol]

BS! I live on the KY state line. There is a loathing for our little sisters from the north that people from Union county and south would never understand. I hate the Cats just as much, if not more than FL and AL. I definitely hate them more than AU and GA. Every win against them is a feather in my hat and I always make a special trip across the state line sporting orange after a win. It NEVER gets old.

The people in Knoxville and surrounding counties don't have to put with KY, Vandy,and GA fans all day every day like some of the rest of us do. You've got a three or four county buffer. Consider yourselves lucky. Did I mention I hate KY?

Well good for you, glad you hate Kentucky, but know that pretty much nobody else does.

I despise Vandy and their fans, but I don't remotely consider them a rival, because they're not. Btw, neither do our players. I've heard former player after former player say over the years say that they couldn't care less about the Vandy and Kentucky games and their only goals were to get the game over with without any big injuries that were gonna hurt them in the bowl game.

I'm certain that both Vandy and Kentucky feel the exact opposite and they see it 180 degrees differently because beating us would make their otherwise awful, bad, pathetic losing season somewhat a success.

 

[bigorangecrush89]

I've often wondered why UT and UGA never played much historically, since the programs are so close to one another geographically and charter members of the conference.

Personally, I think Auburn belongs in the SEC East. It just makes so much more sense geographically and most of the teams they have historic rivalries with are in the East (besides Bama of course). They have still played us more times overall than LSU. Hard to believe.

 

[JettVol]

That was really about it as far as this series goes.

I really want to beat Muschamp though, after his 10-9 win at Neyland. He pisses me off, want to see us hang 50 on them.

 

[GRN1926]

. . .

Someone should look at all-time historical strength of schedule. Bama, auburn, georgia tech, Ole miss. Then add uf, uga, and lsu. We generally land around number 9 on all-time great programs but I'd bet not many of then have played as consistently good schedules as we have over the years.

 

[TNnative]

Just saw on ESPN where they said Tennessee and South Carolina are excited to renew their rivalry. Why do people use the word rivalry so loosely? To me we only have 3 true rivals in the SEC. Alabama, Florida, and Georgia. I guess you could say Auburn too but we really don't play them but every 6 years now that they have the stupid rotation for cross-divisional games since they stubbornly keep the 8 game setup as opposed to going to 9 games but that's another subject. The real reason for this thread is to ask everyone do they really consider Vanderbilt, Kentucky and South Carolina as rivals? I know I sure as heck don't. They all have been our personal doormats for an extended period of time now. I mean look at the record against each:

Vanderbilt: 75-30-5(11 losses against since 1935)

Kentucky: 78-24-9(14 losses against since 1935)

South Carolina: 25-7-2(SEC member since 1992, only played sparingly before then)

Total: 178-61-16

We have beaten these 3 teams 75% of the time throughout our history and that's including the first 20 or so years where our football team just wasn't really a football team and lost to Vanderbilt and Kentucky a lot to start off those series. If you take out those first 20 years then I'm sure our winning percentage is in the 80s without a doubt. So if you beat teams as much as we have beaten these 3 over an extended period of time why do people consider them rivals? I see no justification to even consider them as legit SEC football teams, let alone rivals.

Well, get the Hell over it. If they are in our conference, especially in our division, the press is going to consider them our rival. Just the same as Utah is considered a rival to Washington and Colorado.

Just because you want to look down your nose at an opponent is no reason for you to demand the rest of the world shares your viewpoint. However, if you are searching for like minded (or should I say like mindless) individuals who will howl along with you about it, you are probably looking in the right general direction.

 

[salutethehill]

If you're wondering why a for-profit sports news company would call the TN/SC game (and plenty of other games) a rivalry, check the first 4 words of the original post.

And I do consider SC a rivalry. We compete against them every year for the East and conference. Of course they're a rival.

 

[kentucky sucks]

Well good for you, glad you hate Kentucky, but know that pretty much nobody else does.

I despise Vandy and their fans, but I don't remotely consider them a rival, because they're not. Btw, neither do our players. I've heard former player after former player say over the years say that they couldn't care less about the Vandy and Kentucky games and their only goals were to get the game over with without any big injuries that were gonna hurt them in the bowl game.

I'm certain that both Vandy and Kentucky feel the exact opposite and they see it 180 degrees differently because beating us would make their otherwise awful, bad, pathetic losing season somewhat a success.

By that definition Florida isn't our rival. Their players and fans don't hate us the way we hate them. We're just an SEC game they usually win.

Get out of Knoxville and you'll find 400 miles worth of state border line who hates all things KY. Ask the Vol fans in Chatt who they hate and it'll probably be GA. Bristol people hate VT. People in Middle TN hate Vandy. A rivalry isn't about wins and losses. It's about good ole fashioned hate. Just look at us vs Florida the last 10 years. We think it's a rivalry. They don't.

 

[k-town_king]

Vandy is not and has never been a rival. Stop trying to make it one.

 

[NeverWe'llSever]

I define a rivalry as having a mutual level of hate. There also has to be a certain proximity between fan bases involved.

Based on that, who's a rival is debatable.

I dont consider Tennessee a rival because of a lack of interaction between fan bases.

If you dont take **** from friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, etc., after a loss...it's not a rivalry

Hence why I hate Bama WAY more than Florida. I don't know many UF fans. I know too many Bama fans.

 

[99gator]

By that definition Florida isn't our rival. Their players and fans don't hate us the way we hate them. We're just an SEC game they usually win.

Get out of Knoxville and you'll find 400 miles worth of state border line who hates all things KY. Ask the Vol fans in Chatt who they hate and it'll probably be GA. Bristol people hate VT. People in Middle TN hate Vandy. A rivalry isn't about wins and losses. It's about good ole fashioned hate. Just look at us vs Florida the last 10 years. We think it's a rivalry. They don't.

We beat Georgia 13 out of 14 years from 1990-2003 and it was still a rivalry.

The win-loss thing is not the only factor.

You hit upon what i think is....living amongst the enemy.

It's the reason there is nothing like a truly heated in-state rivalry. As nasty as Florida-Georgia is....they aint FSU

 

[KBVol]

By that definition Florida isn't our rival. Their players and fans don't hate us the way we hate them. We're just an SEC game they usually win.

Get out of Knoxville and you'll find 400 miles worth of state border line who hates all things KY. Ask the Vol fans in Chatt who they hate and it'll probably be GA. Bristol people hate VT. People in Middle TN hate Vandy. A rivalry isn't about wins and losses. It's about good ole fashioned hate. Just look at us vs Florida the last 10 years. We think it's a rivalry. They don't.

Rivalries aren't always mutual. For example, Kentucky and Vandy consider us a rival but we don't return the favor. And as you said, I doubt any Florida fan has considered us much of a rival in forever....but I bet they do next year in Gainesville after we beat them this year because we're relevant again and can have a negative impact on their season.

All that said, here's a major difference IMO. Neither Kentucky nor Vandy ever have a chance to win the East and play for and SEC title...ever. Florida and Georgia however do. They're our 2 most important games every year whereas both Kentucky and Vandy are afterthoughts and games we're most assuredly gonna win no matter what and have no impact on the SEC title race.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

It's interesting that prior to divisional play UT and UGA hardly ever played.

We first met UGa in 1899. Played 45 times since then, with 24 of those in 1992 or after (SEC divided into divisions in '92). Means we played 21 times from 1899 to 1991 (a 93 year period), or once every 4.4 years.

That's very roughly equivalent to how frequently we play the six teams in the West not named Bama, these days. And it doesn't really feel like much of a rivalry any more with Auburn or Ole Miss or Miss State, playing them just once every six years.

So I agree, Georgia wasn't much of a rival prior to creation of SEC-E and SEC-W, if your definition of 'rival' includes a meeting frequency element.



p.s. Same for Florida (25 times over 75 years, from 1916 to 1991...about once every 3 years).

p.p.s. If frequency of play is your thing, or at least a big factor in defining "rival" for you, here's a useful list of Power 5 teams we've played the most, in descending order (cutoff at 30 meetings):

• Kentucky -- 111 times
• Vandy -- 110 times
• Bama -- 97 times
• Ole Miss -- 65 times
• Auburn -- 54 times
• Georgia -- 46 times
• Florida -- 46 times
• Ga Tech -- 46 times
• Miss State -- 45 times
• South Carolina -- 34 times
• LSU -- 32 times
• North Carolina -- 32 times

Given all this, here's how I'd break things out:

Historic (but not current) rivals: Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Georgia Tech, LSU

Current (but not so much historic) rivals: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Mizzou.

Historic and current rivals: Bama, Kentucky, Vandy.

 

[Doberman]

I know which 3 games I get worked up about.

UF, UGA, and Bama.


Vandy, Kentucky -- meh, What channel is Jefferson pilot again?

 

[KBVol]

We first met UGa in 1899. Played 45 times since then, with 24 of those in 1992 or after (SEC divided into divisions in '92). Means we played 21 times from 1899 to 1991 (a 93 year period), or once every 4.4 years.

That's very roughly equivalent to how frequently we play the six teams in the West not named Bama, these days. And it doesn't really feel like much of a rivalry any more with Auburn or Ole Miss or Miss State, playing them just once every six years.

So I agree, Georgia wasn't much of a rival prior to creation of SEC-E and SEC-W, if your definition of 'rival' includes a meeting frequency element.



p.s. Same for Florida (25 times over 75 years, from 1916 to 1991...about once every 3 years).

p.p.s. If frequency of play is your thing, or at least a big factor in defining "rival" for you, here's a useful list of Power 5 teams we've played the most, in descending order (cutoff at 30 meetings):

• Kentucky -- 111 times
• Vandy -- 110 times
• Bama -- 97 times
• Ole Miss -- 65 times
• Auburn -- 54 times
• Georgia -- 46 times
• Florida -- 46 times
• Ga Tech -- 46 times
• Miss State -- 45 times
• South Carolina -- 34 times
• LSU -- 32 times
• North Carolina -- 32 times

Given all this, here's how I'd break things out:

Historic (but not current) rivals: Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Georgia Tech, LSU

Current (but not so much historic) rivals: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Mizzou.

Historic and current rivals: Bama, Kentucky, Vandy.

So, every SEC team we play is a rival?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

So, every SEC team we play is a rival?

By my definition, yes, every SEC team that we play annually are rivals (I included my definition in an earlier post).

Your definition is different. And that's absolutely fine. We all get to define "rival" and "rivalry" however we want. Murica is great that way.

 

[kentucky sucks]

Rivalries aren't always mutual. For example, Kentucky and Vandy consider us a rival but we don't return the favor. And as you said, I doubt any Florida fan has considered us much of a rival in forever....but I bet they do next year in Gainesville after we beat them this year because we're relevant again and can have a negative impact on their season.

All that said, here's a major difference IMO. Neither Kentucky nor Vandy ever have a chance to win the East and play for and SEC title...ever. Florida and Georgia however do. They're our 2 most important games every year whereas both Kentucky and Vandy are afterthoughts and games we're most assuredly gonna win no matter what and have no impact on the SEC title race.

I see your point but Florida State or Miami will never interfere with an SEC championship but Florida hates them with a passion. Georgia Tech will never have an impact on the outcome of an SEC champ. but Georgia hates them.

For kids that grew up in Knoxville all of your buddies loved the vols. All of your teachers wore orange and everybody got along.
When I went to school you were either blue or orange. I grew up 2 miles from KY. It was hell during basketball season because we would usually lose twice and hear all of your neighbors run their mouths until they got their November football beat down. I remember going to my friend's house in the 2nd grade and spilling a glass of milk on my shirt. His mom offered me a KY shirt to wear home. I went home shirtless. We hate them and they hate us.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Another p.s.

The way many here define "rival" is more like how I would define "competitor." Someone with whom we have closely-decided competition, where the chances of winning or losing are roughly equivalent, year in and year out.

And the way some define "rival" is more like the way I would define "challenge" or "obstacle": a difficult task standing in the way between you and your goal, something to overcome, often at great difficulty.

Especially those who think that rivalries can be one-way things (Bama is a rival to us, but lately we're not so much of a rival to them), one of these alternate definitions tend to be their version of "rival."

And it's all good...as was said earlier, we all define "rival" and "rivalry" however the heck we want to, it's all just a semantics discussion. :good!:

 

[KBVol]

By my definition, yes, every SEC team that we play annually are rivals (I included my definition in an earlier post).

Your definition is different. And that's absolutely fine. We all get to define "rival" and "rivalry" however we want. Murica is great that way.

Fair enough, makes sense. I've actually come to the same conclusion this morning....every fan, given their life and fandom experience has his own definition for rival and rivalry games.

I'll just say this JP. I've heard 2 former players and 2 former head coaches say the exact same thing about our "biggest rivalry" games, and that is this. That there are 3 weeks, 3 games when the pressure and mood and intensity changes with our program. And all 4 of them, Erik Ainge, Jayson Swain, Phil Fulmer and Doug Mathews, have all said those changes occur when we play 3 teams.....Florida, Georgia and Alabama.

 

[LA Vol]

Even if we don't consider SCAR a rival, they consider us one of their top two (along with Clemson). They'll be fired up for what, to them, is their big SEC game of the season.

Same for UK. They consider UT and UL their top two rivals and most of their SEC hatred is directed at us. UT-UK is a big rivalry game to them.

Can't underestimate unreciprocated rivalries, because the other team is going to give it their best go.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I'll just say this JP. I've heard 2 former players and 2 former head coaches say the exact same thing about our "biggest rivalry" games, and that is this. That there are 3 weeks, 3 games when the pressure and mood and intensity changes with our program. And all 4 of them, Erik Ainge, Jayson Swain, Phil Fulmer and Doug Mathews, have all said those changes occur when we play 3 teams.....Florida, Georgia and Alabama.

Yeah, I can absolutely see that, and understand those being the key rivalries for many folks. I mean, those are certainly the three biggest obstacles on our schedule, every single year, for our #1 goal of getting to Atlanta and winning an SEC championship.

Even though I define "rivalry" more broadly than many others do (most wouldn't include Mizzou, for instance), these are still the 3 top rivalries for me, as well, in the excitement and energy generated prior to the game, and the elation that comes with winning them.

 

[Backwards K]

I see your point but Florida State or Miami will never interfere with an SEC championship .

The SEC will not move the Tennessee -- Florida game to November because Florida says they have to play FSU on the last weekend of the season. That's not a good enough reason.

As for most hated rival? I hate em all. Always root against every SEC team in non conference games and bowl games. Don't want any of them to have any momentum going into recruiting. There are a few exceptions for several teams when they are playing ND, Mich, or Ohio St.

 

[DrTNT]

Just saw on ESPN where they said Tennessee and South Carolina are excited to renew their rivalry. Why do people use the word rivalry so loosely? To me we only have 3 true rivals in the SEC. Alabama, Florida, and Georgia. I guess you could say Auburn too but we really don't play them but every 6 years now that they have the stupid rotation for cross-divisional games since they stubbornly keep the 8 game setup as opposed to going to 9 games but that's another subject. The real reason for this thread is to ask everyone do they really consider Vanderbilt, Kentucky and South Carolina as rivals? I know I sure as heck don't. They all have been our personal doormats for an extended period of time now. I mean look at the record against each:

Vanderbilt: 75-30-5(11 losses against since 1935)

Kentucky: 78-24-9(14 losses against since 1935)

South Carolina: 25-7-2(SEC member since 1992, only played sparingly before then)

Total: 178-61-16

We have beaten these 3 teams 75% of the time throughout our history and that's including the first 20 or so years where our football team just wasn't really a football team and lost to Vanderbilt and Kentucky a lot to start off those series. If you take out those first 20 years then I'm sure our winning percentage is in the 80s without a doubt. So if you beat teams as much as we have beaten these 3 over an extended period of time why do people consider them rivals? I see no justification to even consider them as legit SEC football teams, let alone rivals.

UT's traditional rivals:

1. Bama... 'nuff said

2. Vandy... UT brought in General Neyland with one objective: beat Vandy. They used to dominate UT.

3. Kentucky: the old beer barrel rivalry...

 

[AM64]

Just saw on ESPN where they said Tennessee and South Carolina are excited to renew their rivalry. Why do people use the word rivalry so loosely? To me we only have 3 true rivals in the SEC. Alabama, Florida, and Georgia. I guess you could say Auburn too but we really don't play them but every 6 years now that they have the stupid rotation for cross-divisional games since they stubbornly keep the 8 game setup as opposed to going to 9 games but that's another subject. The real reason for this thread is to ask everyone do they really consider Vanderbilt, Kentucky and South Carolina as rivals? I know I sure as heck don't. They all have been our personal doormats for an extended period of time now. I mean look at the record against each:

Vanderbilt: 75-30-5(11 losses against since 1935)

Kentucky: 78-24-9(14 losses against since 1935)

South Carolina: 25-7-2(SEC member since 1992, only played sparingly before then)

Total: 178-61-16

We have beaten these 3 teams 75% of the time throughout our history and that's including the first 20 or so years where our football team just wasn't really a football team and lost to Vanderbilt and Kentucky a lot to start off those series. If you take out those first 20 years then I'm sure our winning percentage is in the 80s without a doubt. So if you beat teams as much as we have beaten these 3 over an extended period of time why do people consider them rivals? I see no justification to even consider them as legit SEC football teams, let alone rivals.

Just another overused term like hero, "storm of the century", etc. "Journalism" has to include sensationalism to sell.

Whether you consider KY or Vandy to be a rival - meaning on par with - or not is just one way to look at it. The KY and Vandy series do qualify historically as rivalries - they are continuous and were not always one sided. Neyland was brought to UT to beat Vandy because it went pretty consistently the other way at the time.

The barrel (which you may not remember) was traded back on forth frequently between UT and KY; it was lost a few times during my time as a UT student and fan. Perhaps if that trophy hadn't been sacrificed in the name of political correctness, the rivalry would be more meaningful or at least obvious.

I think plenty of fans here would be insulted if AL didn't consider UT a rivalry because the current W/L record is pretty lopsided - and greatly influenced by the time between Bryant and Saban.

 

[OneVolNation]

My guess is it might just be a marketing tactic. If the television network can sell a game as a rivalry, a few more viewers (who might not otherwise watch it) might view believing they're likely to see a better ballgame because of this heated "rivalry." That translates to more consumer eyeballs for the commercials their advertisers buy.

If you can make it a "grudge match," have a hero, an underdog David vs. Goliath, a Cinderella season, a record-breaking, history-making team, or any similar theme that adds drama people want to watch, it can pique more interest to boost ratings and viewership.

Most of us see this kind of stuff so often we're desensitized so we just let it work on us or we don't care. It saves the media from the need to cook up an interesting story angle if they can just slap the rivalry label on it.

It's like when something hasn't been tested yet it's "New!" or "Never Before Seen!"

and if it's the same tired old bull crap as usual then it's "Tested and Proven."

 

[LA Vol]

Those who consider Vandy and UK our big rivals must feel a lot better about our recent record against them than those of us who feel that Bama and UF are UT's Big Two.