Rick Barnes discussion [merged]

[calban]

So he won’t make the NCAAT next season?

He'll make it and exit early as is his most recent and most repeated history.

 

[TrippieRedd]

I'd like nothing better than to eat some crow next season. but come this time you'll be making the same old tired excuses and talking if he wins 3 in a row and all the crap we heard this year and the hordes of the Miserables will continue to grow. Just is what it is.

I forgot UT was historically ranked in the top 10 in basketball. Didn’t know we were a blue blood. Let’s tell Tony Bennett, Shaka Smart, Bruce Pearl, Calipari, etc they are fired as well.

 

[zjcvols]

It's not revisionist history for myself, because IMO it was a foul. I have not changed my mind or altered the story. Analysts aren't any more informed than the average basketball fan if we're being honest. IMO, anytime a shooter kicks their leg out as far as Edwards did, you are rewarding them for making contact with the defender. It's the same for when you see a jump-shooter on the perimeter jump forward into contact to try and get the foul, which happens all the time in the NBA now.

I also think if to your point it's a 50/50 call, then the right decision with the game on the line on something you aren't sure about is to swallow the whistle and let the players decide rather than just call a foul.

That’s fine, I’m just saying we weren’t screwed. This wasn’t like LSU earlier in that same year where it was clearly one sided. I’m just saying nobody thought that was some horrendous call that clearly cost UT everything

 

[calban]

I forgot UT was historically ranked in the top 10 in basketball. Didn’t know we were a blue blood. Let’s tell Tony Bennett, Shaka Smart, Bruce Pearl, Calipari, etc they are fired as well.

Great argument. Love these posters. In essence, "It's okay to always come up short cuz we're Tennessee. We've always been almost a BB school. " Moronic reasoning.

 

[zjcvols]

So he won’t make the NCAAT next season?

It’s not just that. When we made that salary commitment we were expecting the program to continue to grow and achieve higher results, including more success in the postseason (something you even admitted when he got the extension) since the first time since I can remember.

Since the extension, he’s had two straight underachieving seasons. Sure maybe he makes the tournament next year as well but what if we fall below preseason expectations again in the regular season? What if we get bounced by a higher seed again in the first round?

If your only expectation is “make the tournament” that seems pretty low at this point. They should be adjusted for the team he has and the salary he makes.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Good grief, we’re bringing up the salary BS again.

I can think of numerous coaches that didn’t “earn” their salaries this season.

Such a lame and old argument that brings no credibility to a discussion.

 

[SGMVols]

Well since the Barnes bashers believe the 5 star kids only picked UT because of English and not Barnes, surely this means Kennedy Chandler will be asking UT for a release from his NLI soon.

 

[zjcvols]

Good grief, we’re bringing up the salary BS again.

I can think of numerous coaches that didn’t “earn” their salaries this season.

Such a lame and old argument that brings no credibility to a discussion.

Why would it not be fair that a significant increase in salary and commitment not warrant increased expectations?

 

[calban]

Good grief, we’re bringing up the salary BS again.

I can think of numerous coaches that didn’t “earn” their salaries this season.

Such a lame and old argument that brings no credibility to a discussion.

Always a need to support our arguments by pointing elsewhere?
Most knew if he chose the MONEY expectations would be higher.
This is a tournament sport. What's he done? Since 2007-2008? what's he done?

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Why would it not be fair that a significant increase in salary and commitment not warrant increased expectations?

Because to act like Barnes is the only coach who hasn’t earned his salary is beyond absurd.

Also to keep in mind, had we let dumb a$$ Fulmer make Barnes walk, you’d be setting the program back and lose key players for next years team.

From a business standpoint, it wasn’t a hard decision.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Always a need to support our arguments by pointing elsewhere?
Most knew if he chose the MONEY expectations would be higher.
This is a tournament sport. What's he done? Since 2007-2008? what's he done?

It’s not my money so I don’t care how much he’s getting paid.

Again, from a business standpoint, would you have let Barnes walk? I should already know the answer to that.

 

[calban]

It’s not my money so I don’t care how much he’s getting paid.

Again, from a business standpoint, would you have let Barnes walk? I should already know the answer to that.

At the time I was in favor of him staying. Looking back he knew it was time to go and according to him, God told him to take the best deal. I see now he was deceived by another.
I don't care what he's paid, but I would like to see him make better use of the talent that was laid at his feet.
Maybe I listen to his post game too much. Really started to grate on me with his constant 'I dunno' after every poor showing. final straw was 'dey git it now'. And dey dint.

 

[zjcvols]

Because to act like Barnes is the only coach who hasn’t earned his salary is beyond absurd.

Also to keep in mind, had we let dumb a$$ Fulmer make Barnes walk, you’d be setting the program back and lose key players for next years team.

From a business standpoint, it wasn’t a hard decision.

Sure but A) how consistently are they underachieving and B) Where have they brought the program now to where it was before they got there. If I’m Duke, I am more willing to forgive Coach K for this season because he’s brought me five national titles. Barnes? One sweet 16 in six years.

Well how many underachieving seasons does he have to have before it might be time to move then? Ever since he got the new contract he’s underperformed expectations. So when is it okay to start demanding better?

 

[ndubvols]

It’s not just that. When we made that salary commitment we were expecting the program to continue to grow and achieve higher results, including more success in the postseason (something you even admitted when he got the extension) since the first time since I can remember.

Since the extension, he’s had two straight underachieving seasons. Sure maybe he makes the tournament next year as well but what if we fall below preseason expectations again in the regular season? What if we get bounced by a higher seed again in the first round?

If your only expectation is “make the tournament” that seems pretty low at this point. They should be adjusted for the team he has and the salary he makes.

Anybody with a pulse knew we would take a step back last year, I’d hope the people paying the salary knew this as well.

This year there’s a bit more of an argument to be made, but it’s pretty clear COVID messed with the development of a lot of young teams.

I don’t think the salary argument comes into play yet given the above, but maybe if we’re seeing the same results over the next couple years.

 

[ndubvols]

Sure but A) how consistently are they underachieving and B) Where have they brought the program now to where it was before they got there. If I’m Duke, I am more willing to forgive Coach K for this season because he’s brought me five national titles. Barnes? One sweet 16 in six years.

Well how many underachieving seasons does he have to have before it might be time to move then? Ever since he got the new contract he’s underperformed expectations. So when is it okay to start demanding better?

To your point B, where has Barnes brought the program from before he was here? Talking out both sides of the mouth with that comment. We were a dumpster fire at the time.

Edit: To point A I would argue this was the first year we truly underachieved. Maybe the round of 32 loss to Loyola to a lesser extent, but the regular season that year we overachieved compared to preseason expectations.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Sure but A) how consistently are they underachieving and B) Where have they brought the program now to where it was before they got there. If I’m Duke, I am more willing to forgive Coach K for this season because he’s brought me five national titles. Barnes? One sweet 16 in six years.

Well how many underachieving seasons does he have to have before it might be time to move then? Ever since he got the new contract he’s underperformed expectations. So when is it okay to start demanding better?

This has been my main point in my Barnes disappointment. You can look back at K, Roy, Self, Cal and understand this year is an anomaly for them. Tony Bennett is young has a Natty and won the ACC twice as well as reg season outright multiple times. Chris Beard has a NC game and EE run to look back at and say this guy is going to get it. With Barnes hes been the same guy for 30 years, what does he have to look back on and say this was a weird year? In his career he consistently gets bounced early, he is 24-25 in the tournament in his career. He has never won a conference tourney and only won a reg season title outright once. Theres nothing in his career to point at and say this guy is going to get it.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Sure but A) how consistently are they underachieving and B) Where have they brought the program now to where it was before they got there. If I’m Duke, I am more willing to forgive Coach K for this season because he’s brought me five national titles. Barnes? One sweet 16 in six years.

Well how many underachieving seasons does he have to have before it might be time to move then? Ever since he got the new contract he’s underperformed expectations. So when is it okay to start demanding better?

Barnes deserves criticism, he’s not perfect. I’ve said that he’s whiffed on several players that shouldn’t see the floor in the SEC. Gaines, Pember, Plavsic, and EJ are all on Barnes.

Do I think he could have made some changes that would have resulted in improvement? Sure. However, I knew not having a true PG and elite shooters would come back to haunt us.

Do I think he’s overpaid to some extent? Yes. Most coaches shouldn’t be making that much money just to coach basketball to begin with anyway. However, I completely understand why the University ponied up the money to keep Barnes. We have a true PG coming in along with Mashack and most likely BHH. We still need some shooters from the transfer portal.

Had we let Barnes walk, there’s no guarantee it would have been for the better. Actually could have set the program back a few years for the next guy.

Barnes definitely needs to tweak the roster for next year. The point is, none of us have control over his salary. That’s why I find it pointless to bring up. If you need somebody to blame, then turn your attention to the University that gave him a pay raise. Barnes was just doing what any other coach would have done in that situation if he was getting serious looks from other top tier programs.

 

[cncchris33]

Not trying to point you out specifically, but this has become some epic revisionist history. You can say it wasn’t a foul but every single analyst thought that was a 50/50 call. We weren’t screwed out of that that game

Then I would have bolded the first sentence, only, because the second sentence is 100% accurate. The foul/no foul is a matter of debate, but recognizing and acknowledging that Barnes inherited a total dog pile isn’t.

 

[calban]

Then I would have bolded the first sentence, only, because the second sentence is 100% accurate. The foul/no foul is a matter of debate, but recognizing and acknowledging that Barnes inherited a total dog pile isn’t.

Dumpster fire 6 year back. How long does that argument hold water? How many years does it take to recruit a complete, balanced roster?

 

[cncchris33]

Dumpster fire 6 year back. How long does that argument hold water? How many years does it take to recruit a complete, balanced roster?

Your disappointment is clearly affecting your ability to rationally read and grasp my point. Never did I rationalize our current situation by acknowledging what he took over 6 years ago was directly or indirectly responsible for our current situation, so don’t pretend that I did.

I’m just pointing out that ZJC highlighted that entire statement to point out its perceived inaccuracy when half of it is actually entirely true.

 

[calban]

Your disappointment is clearly affecting your ability to rationally read and grasp my point. Never did I rationalize our current situation by acknowledging what he took over 6 years ago was directly or indirectly responsible for our current situation, so don’t pretend that I did.

I’m just pointing out that ZJC highlighted that entire statement to point out its perceived inaccuracy when half of it is actually entirely true.

Never been accused of being rational. Point taken.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

He'll make it and exit early as is his most recent and most repeated history.

So a washed up coach will be 1 of about 6 coaches to have his team in 4 straight NCAAT?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

It’s not just that. When we made that salary commitment we were expecting the program to continue to grow and achieve higher results, including more success in the postseason (something you even admitted when he got the extension) since the first time since I can remember.

Since the extension, he’s had two straight underachieving seasons. Sure maybe he makes the tournament next year as well but what if we fall below preseason expectations again in the regular season? What if we get bounced by a higher seed again in the first round?

If your only expectation is “make the tournament” that seems pretty low at this point. They should be adjusted for the team he has and the salary he makes.

I don’t recall adjusting my stance based on his salary, maybe I did but I don’t recall it...his salary didn’t change who he is as a coach, his increased salary was to keep him in Knoxville and continue to stabilize this program and continue to elevate it like he’s doing.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Why would it not be fair that a significant increase in salary and commitment not warrant increased expectations?

The same reason why if Musselman and Oats pass him in salaries this year these same fans won’t immediately say that finishing 4th in the SEC is totally fine.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Always a need to support our arguments by pointing elsewhere?
Most knew if he chose the MONEY expectations would be higher.
This is a tournament sport. What's he done? Since 2007-2008? what's he done?

Made 9/12 NCAAT...here’s your homework, name all the coaches in that span to make at least 9 NCAAT?