Report: Tennessee working on extension, raise for Butch Jones

[NashVol11]

why shouldn't it? it did happen, and it wasn't like it was an anomaly. 3 straight years of 5-7. a bare cabinet left for his replacement.

judging where we are today, w/out understanding where we started isn't exactly fair.

it sounds to be like, when you throw out "13 SEC titles", it's THAT we're Tennessee we should just win 10 games, cause thats' who we are.

and, i hate to break it, but that's not what we are, and it is because it's not what we've been recently.

now, we can get back to that, and if we do, it will be because we've done the things you have to do to get back to that kind of winning....

not because of 13 sec titles or a pre season ranking.

Said differently, the idea that the only way NOT to get a raise and extension is to be as horrifically bad as Dooley was is absolute lunacy.

 

[daj2576]

Butch doesn't deserve a raise this year. Who did we really upset? A Georgia squad that has struggled offensively all season? We still lost to our two biggest rivals. We still gave the Oklahoma and Florida game away. If anybody deserves a raise, it's Thig. If he jumps ship recruiting will suffer!

If upsets are what gets raises...Saban should give back every penny he's ever made.

 

[jakez4ut]

Because rewarding someone for being better than arguably the worst coach in SEC history, and rewarding them for going 8-4 with a ranked team that was supposed to go 8-4 and probably should have been better, is a really really dumb idea.

ok, well that's at least better than "because we're a program with 13 SEC titles and we were ranked in the pre season".

it doesn't, however, explain away the actual improvement that's happening. nor does it account for the financial impact, positively, that has occurred in the last two years.

all better reasons for the raise, than anything you've brought to the table thus far being against it.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

this is what you said.

i was just pointing out that, in fact, we've been pretty bad recently, and this notion that we're "so above an 8 win season that to think it's good is lowering our expectations" is, well, not really appropriate given the recent history.

no where in any of my posts will you find anything remotely close to saying "i'm good with 8 win seasons forever".

i've been pretty consistent in stating that it's all relative.

if we were coming off 3-4 9/10+ winning seasons, 8 wins sucks.

but coming off 3 5-7 and a 6-6 season, i'm allowing for the possibility that 8 wins is pretty good.

im not going out on limbs here. it's not that hard. and i'm not lowering my expectations. as a matter of fact, as a result of the 8 win season, my expectations are rising.

the goals, however, never change.

I agree that 8 wins is improvement and much more enjoyable than where we've been. It's not beneath me but it shouldn't be the standard. This was an 8 win team at minimum, so Butch basically met expectations and/or potentially underachieved. That's where I have a problem with raises and extensions. He gets paid a base salary to meet basic expectations and gets guaranteed incentives for exceeding those. Exceeding those expectations also rewards you with a raise (other than a normal cost of living adjustment) going forward. Had he beaten OU, UF or Arky I'd have little issue justifying it.

 

[jakez4ut]

Nope. I'll take an SECe "title" and trip to the SECCG no matter how it comes about next year. Even if we lose again to Florida yet again and "back into it".

KB, we're not supposed to be happy or proud of our team. doing so, makes you a mouth breathing sheep incapable of having an original thought.

 

[NashVol11]

ok, well that's at least better than "because we're a program with 13 SEC titles and we were ranked in the pre season".

it doesn't, however, explain away the actual improvement that's happening. nor does it account for the financial impact, positively, that has occurred in the last two years.

all better reasons for the raise, than anything you've brought to the table thus far being against it.

See above. Wow. You mean, we fired the worst coach in school history...and improved?

That's truly remarkable.

 

[jakez4ut]

Said differently, the idea that the only way NOT to get a raise and extension is to be as horrifically bad as Dooley was is absolute lunacy.

no, that should get you fired?

again, it's all relative. Butch is in the fortunate position of being a part of the program where 8 wins is considered good.

that won't be the case forever, nor should it be. why is that so difficult?

 

[NashVol11]

no, that should get you fired?

again, it's all relative. Butch is in the fortunate position of being a part of the program where 8 wins is considered good.

that won't be the case forever, nor should it be. why is that so difficult?

Lol getting fired? He either gets a raise and extension or is fired? Okay.

Let me put it this way: when Butch was hired, how many wins did you expect in Year 3? 6?

 

[jakez4ut]

See above. Wow. You mean, we fired the worst coach in school history...and improved?

That's truly remarkable.

if you believe that it was only the act of firing Derek Dooley that's the impetus for the improvement, then i guess it is. it appears you're implying that the guy they replaced him with is not a factor there.

 

[bellevue]

If volgrad lived his own personal life like he expects Jones to be judged, he wouldn't have gotten through college.

Here is how I look at it, unlike my fellow volgrad.

I graduated from UT with a BS in 2002.

I didn't walk on campus and start taking 400 level courses. I started at the 100 level. By the time I was doing my senior course work the stuff contained in 100 level courses was rudimentary. Does that mean that at the end of my Freshman year, I shouldn't have enjoyed my GPA, or just given up because I hadn't graduated yet? Or what after my sophomore year? Or my Junior year? I mean, I had been on campus three years. What was I waiting on?

Maybe it really is...

(wait for it)

a process...

Or maybe Butch shouldn't be getting paid millions to learn on the job in what is one of the toughest conferences around.

 

[volgrad500]

If volgrad lived his own personal life like he expects Jones to be judged, he wouldn't have gotten through college.

Here is how I look at it, unlike my fellow volgrad.

I graduated from UT with a BS in 2002.

I didn't walk on campus and start taking 400 level courses. I started at the 100 level. By the time I was doing my senior course work the stuff contained in 100 level courses was rudimentary. Does that mean that at the end of my Freshman year, I shouldn't have enjoyed my GPA, or just given up because I hadn't graduated yet? Or what after my sophomore year? Or my Junior year? I mean, I had been on campus three years. What was I waiting on?

Maybe it really is...

(wait for it)

a process...

I spent nearly nine years in the military, the last 4 was in three different combat zones where I was in charge of a lot of men and resources. I've also been a full time elected official where I made daily decisions that affected peoples livelihood and and well being. Discussing a football coach is not that big of a deal in the long run. But thanks for popping off about **** you have no idea about.

 

[jakez4ut]

Lol getting fired? He either gets a raise and extension or is fired? Okay.

Let me put it this way: when Butch was hired, how many wins did you expect in Year 3? 6?

the only way NOT to get a raise and extension is to be as horrifically bad as Dooley was is absolute lunacy.

look at what you posted. if you're as bad as dooley was, you should get fired. i think we can agree CBJ has shown to be an improvement.

as to what i expected this year, it was 8, 9 if a few things fell in place.

 

[NashVol11]

if you believe that it was only the act of firing Derek Dooley that's the impetus for the improvement, then i guess it is. it appears you're implying that the guy they replaced him with is not a factor there.

I'm implying that any replacement we hired would be better than Dooley, because he's the worst hire we'll ever make. When you're at rock bottom, it's pretty difficult not to improve.

 

[tvolsfan]

look at what you posted. if you're as bad as dooley was, you should get fired. i think we can agree CBJ has shown to be an improvement.

as to what i expected this year, it was 8, 9 if a few things fell in place.

Fair, but let's be honest. If you knew Georgia would be bad enough to cost Richt his job, South Carolina would be so awful that Spurrier would simply quit midway through the year, and Missouri would go 1-7 in conference play, you would have considered 8-4 a disaster, right?

 

[NashVol11]

look at what you posted. if you're as bad as dooley was, you should get fired. i think we can agree CBJ has shown to be an improvement.

as to what i expected this year, it was 8, 9 if a few things fell in place.

What you're saying isn't what I posted at all. My point was that you're essentially saying that anyone better than Dooley gets a raise. I'm pointing out that 99% of all coaches are better than Dooley, so it would then be pretty hard not to get a raise.

If you expected 8 or 9 wins in year 3, then where the hell does the raise come from? A raise and extension is for exceeding expectations.

 

[jakez4ut]

He said we're hanging on to the past like UGA and have a pumped up view point of ourselves. Believing we can and should get back to being a 10+ win program and judging success against that criteria isn't a pumped of version of this program. It should be the standard.

no, he had it right. context matters, and again, relative to what we've been recently, expecting 10 wins+, or championships right now, is a bit aggressive.

have the goals changed? no. it should be the goal to try to win the East, and c'ship game every year.

it just might not be a reasonable expectation every single year. especially when your program has just been thru one of the worst stints in its history.

again, it's all relative. 8 wins right now, is good. it won't be forever, nor should it be. we are still working toward the goal. but standards do change. and i would tell you the standards right now are much higher than they were 4-5 years ago.

 

[NashVol11]

Fair, but let's be honest. If you knew Georgia would be bad enough to cost Richt his job, South Carolina would be so awful that Spurrier would simply quit midway through the year, and Missouri would go 1-7 in conference play, you would have considered 8-4 a disaster, right?

This too

 

[jakez4ut]

I'm implying that any replacement we hired would be better than Dooley, because he's the worst hire we'll ever make. When you're at rock bottom, it's pretty difficult not to improve.

i don't disagree with that at all. and i'll even tell you i think there are coaches that could have done more, especially this year, than Butch did this year.

 

[jakez4ut]

Fair, but let's be honest. If you knew Georgia would be bad enough to cost Richt his job, South Carolina would be so awful that Spurrier would simply quit midway through the year, and Missouri would go 1-7 in conference play, you would have considered 8-4 a disaster, right?

if i'm being consistent in my "it's all relative" argument, then yes, i can agree with you in merit. i wouldn't go so far as to say "disaster", but it does take a little of the shine off, certainly.

but we won those games. 2 of them were against teams we hadn't beaten in 3 and 5 years.

so again, it just depends on how you want to look at it. i can see both sides. but i'll still be happy with the wins.

 

[jakez4ut]

If you expected 8 or 9 wins in year 3, then where the hell does the raise come from? A raise and extension is for exceeding expectations.

well, i understand a lot more now if you believe the only reason he's getting the raise and extension is for an 8 win season.

the past two years, the athletic department has made money. more money both years. there's another thread about the UTAD being the most profitable AD in the SEC or country (i think it was GP, but either way)....

ticket sales are up, season ticket sales are up, new deal with Nike, apparell sales up, concessions, parking and on and on....people have bought in, and they're spending to prove it.

put that on top of the even incremental improvements on the field, and it's very easily justified.

this, like most things in college football, are driven by money, not necessarily what's best from a competitive standpoint. the way he's recruiting, they're investing in the next 5-7 years of the program. if he continues the improvements and we get to that 9-10 win season regularly, they'll continue to make money and most people will be happy for a while.

Butch has proven to be good for business, and business is good at the moment, when he's not, he'll be gone.

 

[jakez4ut]

Football Friday: SEC’s most profitable football programs - Birmingham Business Journal

 

[Plano Vol]

Everyone is so quick to fire the incumbent but I hear no suggestions about who to hire.

So if we were to decide that CBJ can't get us to 10+ wins a season and therefore is not worthy of any financial love, who would we hire? Who will get us that instant gratification that we would have a chance at convincing to come to UT? Saban won't. Who is the coach with the magical power?

Any time you want to fire someone from a key position, you should have a plan to justify your action that includes a replacement that will excel at that position. Who do you rascals have in mind that is such a sure thing to elevate our program to the next level?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Fair, but let's be honest. If you knew Georgia would be bad enough to cost Richt his job, South Carolina would be so awful that Spurrier would simply quit midway through the year, and Missouri would go 1-7 in conference play, you would have considered 8-4 a disaster, right?

That's what you said. Here's what I heard:

Fair, but let's be honest. If you knew Georgia would be bad enough to go 9-3, South Carolina would be so awful that Spurrier would simply quit midway through the year, and Missouri would go 1-7 in conference play, you would have considered winning against all three of them a disaster, right?

How on earth does two of them sucking equate to us sucking, if we beat all three?

That's as bad as someone saying that we're really good because the teams we lost to are really good.* Which you've made real hay off of, iirc. It's poor logic, both ways.



* now, if you want to say "Team X is really good and we took them to overtime," there might be some merit to that argument. Or if you want to say "Team Y really sucks and they took us to overtime," that might have some merit too. But merely saying "we beat them and they suck therefore we suck, that's as goofy as a five-legged cat.

 

[Vol Main]

top 1/2

We definitely were bottom tier when Butch was hired, but the team just got a #6 SEC ranking, #2 SEC East. So Butch took UT from the bottom to the top half. Pulling a team off bottom is a hard, hard thing to do. If the uptrend continues, we'll be in a very good place in the very near future. If Butch plateaus, he should at least put us in contention for championships. Personally, I think Jones is driven, and will not stop going to a higher level. There will be hitches, but my guess is that he'll work through them. jmho

 

[UT_King]

Even with the trash roster Jones inherited, 8-4 in year 3 is worthy of a good job and maybe a pat on the back. A raise? An extension?! The pool of mediocrity gets a little deeper.