Religious debate (split from main board)

#1,276
#1,276
Oldvol75 said:
But exactly how would we know for sure if it was sealed forever and ever that the skeleton would remain and be covered with these bits of nasty slime or crust? Is our only choice to assume? Because it would not be observable would it?
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This is getting silly. If one day you opened the tomb, it would be as I said. Look at the tombs of Egypt. We still have those mummies. In fact, there was so much energy still in those mummies, there was a time they were used for fuel in medieval times. (seriously, there were lots and lots of mummies of buried slaves and such, and they were cheaper than wood. google it.)

If you are saying what if no ever ever looked, you might as well pretend you are invisible if you close your eyes and no one is looking.
 
#1,277
#1,277
IPorange said:
We're just coming from really different places, Oldvol. I am inclined to just let it lay there. I apologize for the comments about you quitting your job. I obviously feel very strongly on the matter and it does bother me that you give a "disclaimer" before covering something when you wouldn't do so for, say, Mendelian genetics, but that was a bit ridiculous on my part.


BeecherVol, can you elaborate? I don't really follow what you are asking. If you are asking who I believe since people are fallible, I just do the best I can to look at the facts as they are presented (including research.) It's people's fallibility that also works against there being some sort of elaborate hoax or conspiracy regarding evolution. I just don't think it could be pulled off so masterfully or totally.

If it all were a hoax, and was all wrong, it would certainly make a difference. I am not so sure that it would automatically lead me to believe that creationists had it right all along, though. It's really the difference between living by faith or living by fact. Not that the two are mutually exclusive. But one must over-ride the other when the rubber meets the road.

Does that address your post? If it doesn't, let me know.
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Yeah you answered it pretty well.

Science in general is a deep subject, you and I (among others) believe it is deep for different reasons.

I don't have time to sit down, and look at all the information that every experiment produces. Not to mention the credibility, of the scientist performing these tests. And trying to decided if he his an outside influence that is corrupting his research. (Some people may have the time to, this is just me)

If I did not believe in God, and that He created all this, Im not sure I would care where it came from. And if I did, Im not sure why it would matter if I believed someone that was wrong about their theorys or opinions.
 
#1,278
#1,278
I think you'd be surprised how much you would care, if you were of the opinion that all there was is this world and each other.
 
#1,279
#1,279
IPorange said:
I think you'd be surprised how much you would care, if you were of the opinion that all there was is this world and each other.
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Maybe, but I can't figure out why. If I understood history, and knew I was gonna die around the age of 75. (if not sooner) Im not sure why what I believed or didn't believe would matter.
Especially after Im dead.
 
#1,280
#1,280
IPorange said:
This is getting silly. If one day you opened the tomb, it would be as I said. Look at the tombs of Egypt. We still have those mummies. In fact, there was so much energy still in those mummies, there was a time they were used for fuel in medieval times. (seriously, there were lots and lots of mummies of buried slaves and such, and they were cheaper than wood. google it.)

If you are saying what if no ever ever looked, you might as well pretend you are invisible if you close your eyes and no one is looking.
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But doesn't the climate they're in dictate their condition? By using Egypt as your example, Tennessee and Alabama should be covered with them. I'm just asking questions here.
 
#1,281
#1,281
IPorange said:
I think you'd be surprised how much you would care, if you were of the opinion that all there was is this world and each other.
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If this is really all there is, then why would one worry about it? At death it would all be over,correct? I wouldn't have to worry about my parents, my wife, my children and everyone of my loved ones because there would be no hope of ever seeing them, hugging them or kissing them again.


But in my beliefs, it makes me care even more about everyone else.
 
#1,282
#1,282
Oldvol75 said:
If this is really all there is, then why would one worry about it? At death it would all be over,correct? I wouldn't have to worry about my parents, my wife, my children and everyone of my loved ones because there would be no hope of ever seeing them, hugging them or kissing them again.
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I'd say being an athiest makes you care more. It's your only shot so you better enjoy it/spend time with the ones you care for.
 
#1,283
#1,283
666 said:
I'd say being an athiest makes you care more. It's your only shot so you better enjoy it/spend time with the ones you care for.
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I dont consider myself a true atheist, but i think this sentiment is exactly right. The promise of perfection, happiness, or even 72 virgins, can cause alot of stupid acts during our stay here. But religion and faith can create some good and fulfilment, which should be the hope and goal of everyone.
 
#1,285
#1,285
666 said:
I'd say being an athiest makes you care more. It's your only shot so you better enjoy it/spend time with the ones you care for.
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I say that if I only have one shot, I'd probably concentrate on looking out for #1, that being me.
 
#1,287
#1,287
MWR said:
I say that if I only have one shot, I'd probably concentrate on looking out for #1, that being me.
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hmm...so you're saying if you weren't religious you would be a self-absorbed, immoral d-bag?

Plenty of atheists, yours truly included, are fine upstanding people that don't need the crutch of religion to do the right thing.
 
#1,288
#1,288
T-TownVol said:
I would say that is a HUGE pile of SHAT!
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Why is that? According to the religious worldview, this is nothing more than a stop on the way to eternal happiness or suffering. After you die is when the real fun begins, no?

To an atheist this is it, make it count and love the ones you care for because after you die you will never see them again. This fact alone makes life much more precious.
 
#1,289
#1,289
As an atheist, how do you answer the big questions?

Where did the matter for the big bang come from? Scientists can reason it back to a large bang, but how do you reason material and energy being created from nothing?
 
#1,290
#1,290
rjd970 said:
Why is that? According to the religious worldview, this is nothing more than a stop on the way to eternal happiness or suffering. After you die is when the real fun begins, no?

To an atheist this is it, make it count and love the ones you care for because after you die you will never see them again. This fact alone makes life much more precious.
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Keep telling yourself that. What a piss poor excuse of a way to go through life.
 
#1,291
#1,291
oklavol said:
As an atheist, how do you answer the big questions?

Where did the matter for the big bang come from? Scientists can reason it back to a large bang, but how do you reason material and energy being created from nothing?
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No, no no......it is not a bang now......it is a puddle of living sludge now that started it all
 
#1,294
#1,294
MWR said:
I say that if I only have one shot, I'd probably concentrate on looking out for #1, that being me.
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well im not you, and focusing on oneself will leave yourself very unhappy. Were social animals helping others, and doing good for the community provides alot more fulfilment than worried only about screwing others to get ahead. But your right in one aspect, some religions provide good examples (i.g. Christ) on how to do that, and some people need threats of eternal suffering to stay in line.

T-TownVol said:
I would say that is a HUGE pile of SHAT!
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You have to say that, to make yourself feel better

oklavol said:
As an atheist, how do you answer the big questions?

Where did the matter for the big bang come from? Scientists can reason it back to a large bang, but how do you reason material and energy being created from nothing?
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thats a two way street, religion provides answers in areas I have no idea. But im not afraid of saying I dont know. Im agnostic because of this, one cannot rule out that a all powerful being didn't create this, but one cant say with certainty one did. How do you answer? Let me guess, God did it and he is the Alpha and Omega

OrangeEmpire said:
666 and Nash, how does it exactly make you care more?
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See above

Look Ive tried my entire life to believe. I want to believe! Ive tried, i know life would be soo much easier and in some areas better if it was all true. But i just cant, Ive read the new testament, I love the examples of a good life given by Christ , but on the Big Questions (refering to question asked above) i just cant accept the answers given in the bible. No disrespect to most members here but most of the Old testament and revelations are IMO laughable.
 
#1,296
#1,296
rjd970 said:
hmm...so you're saying if you weren't religious you would be a self-absorbed, immoral d-bag?

Plenty of atheists, yours truly included, are fine upstanding people that don't need the crutch of religion to do the right thing.
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I don't see my faith in God as a crutch.

When you post about people's faith, you may be posting about a subject you know little about.
 
#1,298
#1,298
oklavol said:
As an atheist, how do you answer the big questions?

Where did the matter for the big bang come from? Scientists can reason it back to a large bang, but how do you reason material and energy being created from nothing?
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The way you have even phrased the question is biased towards a theistic world view. How do you reason material and energy being created from nothing.

Anyway, here is what I said to the same question earlier in this thread:

The current thought (or at least that I am aware of, which isn't really saying much) is that there is an infinite loop of Big Bangs, universal expansion (that's how things are now), and eventually universal retraction into one single place/mass, followed by a Big Bang. Everything would be a never-ending cycle. Each iteration would be identical to the last, and it would be eternal in both "future" and "past."
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I didn't get into this before, but if you are familiar with "zero state energy," it may be that it's impossible for there ever to completely be "nothing," anyway.
 
#1,299
#1,299
MWR said:
I don't see my faith in God as a crutch.

When you post about people's faith, you may be posting about a subject you know little about.
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It was never meant as anything bad toward you personally. I was just trying to illustrate a point. My apologies.

I'm just saying, it is possible be a very moral, caring, and compassionate person without the belief in a higher power. Belief in God does not hold a majority when it comes to being moral. I think you will find a lot of atheists are very moral people, just not for the same reasons as you.
 
#1,300
#1,300
Nash270 said:
thats a two way street, religion provides answers in areas I have no idea. But im not afraid of saying I dont know. Im agnostic because of this, one cannot rule out that a all powerful being didn't create this, but one cant say with certainty one did. How do you answer? Let me guess, God did it and he is the Alpha and Omega
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Even as an agnostic, you have to acknowledge the fundamental laws of physics, that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed.

But what about the big question, where did the energy and mass from the big bang come from? It seems to me, to a bigger leap of faith to believe that it came ouf ot a vacuum, then to believe it was created from a higher power or source.
 
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