Recruiting Rankings

#51
#51
I’d rather have a small class with a bunch of top targets saying no to us, than a full class loaded with 3* that we took just to take players.
I won’t judge this staff off of this class at all, heck 20 is not bad considering the media nightmare the coaching hire was that made it easy for other teams to say our entire school is dysfunctional, and that’s just the topping to the horrible season we had just finished. Had the AD actually done a coaching search and hired Pruitt the day they tried handing us Haslams project coach for the browns, then he might have had a shot at a top 10 class. But even that would’ve been the best case scenario. Pruitt and Co walked into a crap show and actually brought in some decent players. I don’t consider this a foundation class for championships but I think there will be a couple kids that make some noise and help to bring in the foundation class next year.
 
#52
#52
Bigger issue than the overall rankings is them missing their targets whereas other SEC teams hit theirs and ended up higher in those rankings.

Whiffed on 6 CB targets for example after losing 4 CBs.

Tennessee coach Jeremy Pruitt on cornerbacks: 'We addressed our needs'

If the position was so solid they wouldn't have offered that many guys IMO.

Also thought they could have used another RB and still hoping they can convince a QB to transfer in for depth.
 
#53
#53
Cause It Seems To Be Working Out For The Ones At The Top. See Bama, Ga, Clemson, Ohio St etc.

Remember When We Were Kids Playing Ball In The Backyard? Say Your A Captain, Your Picking Your Guys. Your Going To Pick The best. Everyone In The Neighborhood knows who the best is.

This Is No Different. Bigger Neighborhood, more neighbors. Everyone Knows Who The Best Is. Is It Always 100% Accurate? No, but it gives a damn good ballpark figure. Even Without rankings and recruiting sites, it doesn't change who the best players are. No One needed a sake to rank, say. Bo Jackson, But Today's services would have had him at the top. Would He Have Be Wanted by his ranking, or by his abilities?

Getting the best players is less important than making your system somewhat fluid and adjusting it to get the most out of the players you have. That was Lyles biggest flaw. He didn’t care what you did good or were horrible at, you were gonna play his system, his way. That’s why some kids seemed better early or as part time players but once they got more playing time Lyle made sure to force them to do things his way and killed all their natural instincts and abilities. He also didn’t try to exploit the other teams weaknesses, he was so sure his system was perfect that as long as the players did what he said they could stop or score on any team any time.

If Pruitt designs his system and makes his game plans around the players and not some preconceived system then he could turn out to be the next great coach. But if he comes in with a “sure fire system” like the last coach he will just be the next coach that couldn’t fix UT.
 
#54
#54
Yeah it’s the fact we failed to even land ONE
of the big targets. Really? You couldn’t pull ITS away from USC with them already having Griffin? Quay Walker seemed all but a
certainty but nope. UGA. It’s concerning that Pruitt flopped so hard when he’s supposed to be an elite recruiter.

But. We gotta give him a full year and see how he fares. Top 5 class or bust. That’s the type of classes it will take.

If Pruitt can coach and develop, we'll be fine. If not, we're in trouble. I'm thinking we'll have some modest success in 2018 We just need our boys to be as fundamentally sound and hard working as basketball Vols, and we'll all be pretty happy.
 
#55
#55
i think the difference you should be concerned about is 20 to top 10. there's a difference in top 20 vs. top 10. there's a difference between top 10 and top 5.

no one should get riled up because we're 20, instead of 17 or whatever.

It's not about the number beside our name in the rankings. It's about the finish and players we whiffed on Wednesday.

That said, we had a horrible season and a very late start. To end up around 20th is an accomplished but the closing was definitely disappointing.

But I am excited to see what Pruitt and the staff can do with the players on the field and with a full year of recruiting.
 
#56
#56
It's not about the number beside our name in the rankings. It's about the finish and players we whiffed on Wednesday.

That said, we had a horrible season and a very late start. To end up around 20th is an accomplished but the closing was definitely disappointing.

But I am excited to see what Pruitt and the staff can do with the players on the field and with a full year of recruiting.

Being disappointed is fine. I was/am too.

It's the use of that to somehow translate that to a failure on this staff's part that gets me.
 
#57
#57
Clemson, not counting this signing day has one top 10 recruiting class since 2012..Fla St has 5 but Clemson is owning FSU and the ACC. Oklahoma the same thing. One top 10 class since 2012..(2012-2017).That contradicts having to finish top 8 to be elite and to win Titles. USC has 5 top 10 classes.No championships and 1 Pac 12 Championships since the CFP started. AU 5 top 10 classes.Zero Titles, NC or playoff Appearance's and 20 losses in the last 4 yrs. LSU had 5 top 7 classes. No Titles, No NC, No CFP Appearance's and 16 losses in 4 years. Point is Top 8 doesn't guarantee conference or National Championships. Just like having the #14 class average over 6 years doesn't mean you can't win conference or National Championships. Coaching and development is a much more important and deciding factor. If it wasn't then Clem,OU,Wisc,Wash,Oreg and others wouldn't have had the success they have. Then if Top 8 was the end all, be all we would only see Ala,Ohio St,Fla St,USC,Auburn,LSU and GA winning conference and CFP championships. From that group Only Ala and Ohio St, at a lesser level have consistently been ranked top 5 week in and out. Wisconsin has averaged the #42 recruiting class from '12-17 yet are 45-10 the last 4 years. Good recruiting classes definitely lay the foundation but it's the coaching that plays the much bigger role. I want a top 5-10 class every yea. But there's too many more factors that have to be included with it to win games.

Ok, USC, and Clemson all have much easier paths also. Show Me A Team That Has Won big Without Blue Chips. We're Not Talking about only Back To 2012. Go Back And Look At The Recruiting Rankings And Teams That Were winning then. USC, Texas, Fla, LSU, Bama were all pumping out top classes. How Many Top classes has Bama had since 2008? You Can't Just Go Back To 2012 And Strength Of Schedule Has To Play A role in the lower ranked recruiting classes that had success
 
#58
#58
The Star Rating system is fun to look at but the sites ranking these players base their rankings on a kid’s measurables, their offers, stats, and so on. If Bama and Ohio State offer a player, he must be a 5*.

Most of these recruiting sites aren’t in camps where they evaluate players firsthand and see how they react to coaching, see their work ethic, or know their football IQ and love of the game. They don’t take into account the personal relationships with coaches and their fit with a coaches scheme.

That is why some teams may have a higher grade on a player than other teams may. Teams also take kids based on need and often project what a players ceiling may be.

Coaches look at whether or not a player is a leader, has persevered through adversity, or will grow into a position. Some guys are recruited at different positions based on a coaches evaluation of their skill set.

There are a few guys that are clearly 5* prospects but these sites only give out so many of those rankings. JUCO players rarely receive a 5* rating.

It is also impossible for these sites to evaluate every High School players film. Who knows who is actually making these evaluations. Are they former coaches? Scouts?

In reality, there isn’t a huge difference between some 4* and 3* players. It’s all subjective. If these sites were always right, then all 5* players would make it to the NFL.

Who knows? Jeremy Banks could have a better career than Bryce Brown because he works hard and keeps his head on straight.
 
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#59
#59
The Star Rating system is fun to look at but the sites ranking these players base their rankings on a kid’s measurables, their offers, stats, and so on. If Bama and Ohio State offer a player, he must be a 5*.

Both Teams Sign 3*s annually. Bama just took 5 3*s actually. And Your Basically Saying These Kids Don't Earn Their Rankings. Measurables is a big part. Look At How Our Undersized Players have faired. The NFL thinks highly of measurables also. These Kids Earn Their Stars By playing at a high level against high level competition. They Then Go To Camps And Under Armour All America Games and such and play against the best in the country. Sure Some Flop And Some Lower Tier Players Will have been over looked that should have been rated higher. Rankings are earned. They're Not As Gimmicky As Some Here Like To Try And Say. Unless Your from a school signing a bunch of 3*s trying to feel better about yourself. You May Be Right about not hashing enough 5* though. And Maybe Juco isn't ranked because they have already been ranked, our because they SHOULD hypothetically have an advantage from playing at a higher level than high school
 
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#60
#60
Both Teams Sign 3*s annually. Bama just took 5 3*s actually. And Your Basically Saying These Kids Don't Earn Their Rankings. Measurables is a big part. Look At How Our Undersized Players have faired. The NFL thinks highly of measurables also. These Kids Earn Their Stars By playing at a high level against high level competition. They Then Go To Camps And Under Armour All America Games and such and play against the best in the country. Sure Some Flop And Some Lower Tier Players Will have been over looked that should have been rated higher. Rankings are earned. They're Not As Gimmicky As Some Here Like To Try And Say. Unless Your from a school signing a bunch of 3*s trying to feel better about yourself. You May Be Right about not hashing enough 5* though. And Maybe Juco isn't ranked because they have already been ranked, our because they SHOULD hypothetically have an advantage from playing at a higher level than high school

I am not saying that these players don’t earn their * ratings at all. I am just saying that the ratings are subjective. The recruiting sites ranking these players are based on stats, measurables, level of competition, college offers, and who are invited to the Underamour and Elite 11 camps. They do a decent job of ranking some of the top players but they are not always correct nor do they rank more than 500 players. There are 65 Power 5 schools and each year they sign 25 or so players or about 1600 players total.

These recruiting sites are great for fans but I don’t think college coaches aren’t looking at Rivals, 247, and the ESPN 300 when deciding who they want to recruit. I don’t think they care what Tom Luginbill and ESPN thinks or where they rank players or team classes.

We know that one of the criteria for rating a player are the teams recruiting them so if the top programs are recruiting a kid, then he is usually rated higher than some other kids. If Ohio State, Bama, and a few other select schools recruit a player, then he is typically rated higher than a kid being recruited by Washington State, Arizona, and Utah.

How many times do we see a 3 * kid get an offer from a top tier program and they get a boost in rating. You also see kids commit to a rebuilding program and their rating drops.

I think there is also a fine line between a some 3* and some 4* players and there a few 4* guys that could be rated a 5*.

I think there is obviously a difference between the number 1 class and the number 30 class but there isn’t much difference between a number 8 and number 12 class because the rankings are subjective and you have to take in account for fit to a coaching scheme.

Recruiting is also about the stuff that can’t be measured like heart, toughness, coach-ability, and fit to scheme. Coaches offer players at different positions because of the players skill set and sometimes they offer a scholly based on where they project the player to be in 2 years based on how they feel they can develop a player or how much that player grows. Coaches interact with these kids and see them at practice, at games, at camps, and in their homes. Coaches watch hours of film on these players and talk with their coaches and family before offering scholarships.

Yes, even Bama recruits 3* players but there are many reasons for this. Perhaps a kid is coming off injury or they project a kid to develop behind more talented players for a couple of years. Sometimes they take 3* players to keep a good relationship with high school coaches where there may be an up and coming 5* player the following year that they want to recruit.

It seems to me when looking at the recruiting sites ratings, a lot of emphasis is placed on the schools recruiting them. If Bama and Ohio State offered a player, they are usually rated higher than if only Tennessee, Auburn, and UCLA offered.
 
#61
#61
To put it in a NASCAR vein, CJP entered the race several laps down in last place and made up several positions at the checkered flag. IMO I feel he did an outstanding job of landing a pretty good finish.
 
#62
#62
Bigger issue than the overall rankings is them missing their targets whereas other SEC teams hit theirs and ended up higher in those rankings.

Whiffed on 6 CB targets for example after losing 4 CBs.

Tennessee coach Jeremy Pruitt on cornerbacks: 'We addressed our needs'

If the position was so solid they wouldn't have offered that many guys IMO.

Also thought they could have used another RB and still hoping they can convince a QB to transfer in for depth.

I agree, but I don't think he was lying or being misleading either. We had needs at most positions, but had early signees at most of them. Near the end we were lagging at DB's and there were a bunch of high-profile targets, so we went after them.

But we have a guy or two who could make a position change and play DB. Marquill Osborne, Maleik Gray, Nigel Warrior and Micah Abernathy were all highly ranked prospects. Then there's Theo Jackson, Baylen Buchanan, Shawn Shamburger, Terrell Bailey and Cheyenne Labruzza. Throw in Flowers, Norwood and Davis... we may not have elite playmakers, but it doesn't seem as dismal as some make it out to be.
 
#63
#63
Ok, USC, and Clemson all have much easier paths also. Show Me A Team That Has Won big Without Blue Chips. We're Not Talking about only Back To 2012. Go Back And Look At The Recruiting Rankings And Teams That Were winning then. USC, Texas, Fla, LSU, Bama were all pumping out top classes. How Many Top classes has Bama had since 2008? You Can't Just Go Back To 2012 And Strength Of Schedule Has To Play A role in the lower ranked recruiting classes that had success

I went back only that far to show it isn't the end all,be all indicator like it used to be. Also to show modern day trends and not out of date ones Is that why when Clemson won the NC their SOS was 4th in the nation? It was 10th this year. 2015 it was also 10th. Alabama's was 22nd this year. My point to this is the new recruiting rules the last 6 years and even more with no more oversigning is causing more parity. Butch lived off signing huge classes,28,30 and 32. That's no longer an option. So now it spreads out the talent and evens the playing field more. 20 years ago no you weren't winning without consistently being top 5 in recruiting. This era you don't have to. Yes Saban has talent but he also develops it and knows how to win. LSU is a consistent top 5 and they are losing 4-5 games a yr despite it.
 
#64
#64
I am not saying that these players don’t earn their * ratings at all. I am just saying that the ratings are subjective. The recruiting sites ranking these players are based on stats, measurables, level of competition, college offers, and who are invited to the Underamour and Elite 11 camps. They do a decent job of ranking some of the top players but they are not always correct nor do they rank more than 500 players. There are 65 Power 5 schools and each year they sign 25 or so players or about 1600 players total.

These recruiting sites are great for fans but I don’t think college coaches aren’t looking at Rivals, 247, and the ESPN 300 when deciding who they want to recruit. I don’t think they care what Tom Luginbill and ESPN thinks or where they rank players or team classes.

We know that one of the criteria for rating a player are the teams recruiting them so if the top programs are recruiting a kid, then he is usually rated higher than some other kids. If Ohio State, Bama, and a few other select schools recruit a player, then he is typically rated higher than a kid being recruited by Washington State, Arizona, and Utah.

How many times do we see a 3 * kid get an offer from a top tier program and they get a boost in rating. You also see kids commit to a rebuilding program and their rating drops.

I think there is also a fine line between a some 3* and some 4* players and there a few 4* guys that could be rated a 5*.

I think there is obviously a difference between the number 1 class and the number 30 class but there isn’t much difference between a number 8 and number 12 class because the rankings are subjective and you have to take in account for fit to a coaching scheme.

Recruiting is also about the stuff that can’t be measured like heart, toughness, coach-ability, and fit to scheme. Coaches offer players at different positions because of the players skill set and sometimes they offer a scholly based on where they project the player to be in 2 years based on how they feel they can develop a player or how much that player grows. Coaches interact with these kids and see them at practice, at games, at camps, and in their homes. Coaches watch hours of film on these players and talk with their coaches and family before offering scholarships.

Yes, even Bama recruits 3* players but there are many reasons for this. Perhaps a kid is coming off injury or they project a kid to develop behind more talented players for a couple of years. Sometimes they take 3* players to keep a good relationship with high school coaches where there may be an up and coming 5* player the following year that they want to recruit.

It seems to me when looking at the recruiting sites ratings, a lot of emphasis is placed on the schools recruiting them. If Bama and Ohio State offered a player, they are usually rated higher than if only Tennessee, Auburn, and UCLA offered.
You Made Some Very Valid Points. And I Agree With A Lot Of. Especially The Numbers game, But we still can't ignore the amount of success these top rated schools have based of recruiting rankings alone. So Much Goes Into Everything, It's Really just too vast to have a cut and dry answer
 
#65
#65
You Made Some Very Valid Points. And I Agree With A Lot Of. Especially The Numbers game, But we still can't ignore the amount of success these top rated schools have based of recruiting rankings alone. So Much Goes Into Everything, It's Really just too vast to have a cut and dry answer

I agree with you there. Recruiting is the key to success. I just hope Pruitt can coach them up this coming year so he can get the recruits he wants in 2019.
 
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