Recruiting myth...

#1
thunder5

thunder5

Cause I like to party
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#1
I've heard alot of people claim that we don't have the talent to compete anymore and that is our problem as much as coaching, execution, etc.

While I agree that we don't have the studs that we used to...I don't believe that our talent has dropped so significantly as to explain the level of play that we are witnessing now...

I think the talent levels of the other SEC schools has risen to the point that it is exposing our glaring deficiencies in coaching... i.e. we have the size, speed and strength to match most teams but we are being out-schemed, out-motivated and out-classed by superior coaching...

Before anyone says "Well duh Sherlock"...I can assure you I've heard several people...fans, journalists, radio personalities...hint that its a talent issue...

I for one don't buy the recruiting myth...

Thoughts?
 
#2
#2
Even if it was a talent issue it would still fall on the shoulders of coaching. That is their job too.
 
#3
#3
UT has the talent right now to be 4-0. IMO, they were clearly more talented than Auburn and UCLA. Mistakes and big plays hurt them against UF but they actually drove the ball as well or better than UF did against UT.

Most of UF's points came off short drives.

If the rumored conflict between Clawson and Fulmer took place concerning Crompton then Fulmer has rolled the dice and lost.
 
#5
#5
hndog609 said:
Well, it might be a myth to overstate it but there is an empirical argument. Here is the number of Rivals 4* or better players per school '05-'08.


FL- 65
LSU- 56
GA- 54
AL- 50
TN- 42

This is something that is going to be an issue regardless of who is coaching as I make a case for here:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...red-mh-must-hire-post1667588.html#post1667588
Click to expand...

the difference between a 3 and a 4 is not huge, and you only play 11 at a time. also...wasn't cromp a 4 or a 5? dan williams a 3? stars are not what you bank on.
 
#6
#6
We have enough talent to be competative if at the top of the SEC now with good coaching and motivation. It's the caliber of coaches in the SEC that has been the biggest change in the last 10 years. Look at Spurrier he is a much better coach than CPF and owned us while at UF. Now you have Saban, Miles, Reicht, Spurrier and Tubberville, CPF dosn't have a chance.

It will always be harder to pull 4 and 5 star recuits to UT than Bama, UF, LSU and UF because we do not have the homegrown talent the other schools have (very poor HS coaches in TN) so we need superior coaches which we do not have.
 
#7
#7
Foster, Foster, Rogan, Parker, Williams, Wilson, Richard, Stocker, Briscoe,... were all 3* or lower. None of those guys are the reason UT is 1-3. At least 4 of those guys will play on Sundays.
 
#8
#8
aaronvol said:
the difference between a 3 and a 4 is not huge, and you only play 11 at a time. also...wasn't cromp a 4 or a 5? dan williams a 3? stars are not what you bank on.
Click to expand...

Wasn't trying to make that case, my point was if you are going to try to quantify something like "talent" you have to have some means of assigning a value to it for any kind of comparitive purposes.
 
#9
#9
Ive posted this before but it bears a mention here as well. UT, if I'm not mistaken, has 2 top 5 recruiting classes on campus right now. The class with Morley/Crompton as well the Berry/G. Jones class. In addition, the players we get, aside from some of our in state talent, are the same players that the Floridas and the UGAs of the world are going after. They are just not being coached and we as a team are being out strategized and taken to the woodshed by Meyer and the like. The Vols need a spark and I think Clawson could provide it given a chance and the right QB.
 
#10
#10
sjt18 said:
Foster, Foster, Rogan, Parker, Williams, Wilson, Richard, Stocker, Briscoe,... were all 3* or lower. None of those guys are the reason UT is 1-3. At least 4 of those guys will play on Sundays.
Click to expand...
Arian Foster is a huge reason Tennessee lost at UCLA.
 
#11
#11
One way to look at this is how many CPF's assistant coaches have moved on to a HC job or even been hired away to be a coordinator at a BSC school. 2 that I can think of DC at Ol Miss, Duke and Tropper to Ok State. If CPF was a great coach don't you thik some of that skill a knowlege would have rubbed off on his asistants and they would be a sought after hire by other schools.
 
#12
#12
hndog, the problem is that it doesn't work that clean cut.

Sam Bradford is probably the best QB in CFB right now as a RS Sophomore. He was a 3 star QB from OKC in HS. He never completed 60% in HS and threw alot of picks. His offers were OU, ISU, TTU, and Tex A&M.

Chase Daniel is another serious Heisman contender. He was also a 3* out of HS.

Other than the QB position, I don't think any other position has been consistently outplayed by the opposition the whole year.
 
#14
#14
sjt18 said:
hndog, the problem is that it doesn't work that clean cut.

Sam Bradford is probably the best QB in CFB right now as a RS Sophomore. He was a 3 star QB from OKC in HS. He never completed 60% in HS and threw alot of picks. His offers were OU, ISU, TTU, and Tex A&M.

Chase Daniel is another serious Heisman contender. He was also a 3* out of HS.

Other than the QB position, I don't think any other position has been consistently outplayed by the opposition the whole year.
Click to expand...

Hey I know exactly where you're coming from. I mean, knowing what we know now I'd take 1 Rogan over 10 O'Neals. Obviously there's no guarantee how any given player is going to perform in college relative to their recruiting rank but those rankings are still the primary metric used in evaluating how much talent is (or isn't) going into any given program.
 
#15
#15
I guess we just can't get the talent like many of the current top 25 teams, Boise State, Wake Forest, UConn, South FL, etc. It may be player development and I'll go out on a limb and say it could be.
 
#16
#16
i cant say i 100% agree. just look at this years sopohmore class. I would put them up with any ones class the past few years. Not everyone can have top 5 every year.
 
#17
#17
sjt18 said:
Foster, Foster, Rogan, Parker, Williams, Wilson, Richard, Stocker, Briscoe,... were all 3* or lower. None of those guys are the reason UT is 1-3. At least 4 of those guys will play on Sundays.
Click to expand...

You say at least 4 of those... Go down our lineup and compare the number of future pros on this team with the number of pros on the 98 and 2001 teams. Please. The 2001 team had over 20 pros. We'll be lucky to have half of that on this year's team.
 
#18
#18
Saban seems to know how to get the most out of what he has. Up until last year, Bama's recruiting was way below that of ours. Funny what a good coach can accomplish...
 
#19
#19
slobberknocker said:
I guess we just can't get the talent like many of the current top 25 teams, Boise State, Wake Forest, UConn, South FL, etc. It may be player development and I'll go out on a limb and say it could be.
Click to expand...


If you seriously think we have LESS talent than Boise State and the rest of those SUCKER schools, you must be smokin' CRANK..........Our coaching SUX, period.....If you'd like to see the difference in what a good coach can do, look at Bruce Pearl in year 1.......took a bunch of guys who BLEW the year before with like a 12-19 record or something, and won over 20 games, went to NCAA 3 straight years, made sweet 16 2 years in a row.....that's what a good coach can do.......I really hope u were joking earlier, UT always has AWESOME talent in football, period........
 
#20
#20
How many players in recent years have even been drafted compared to the mid- to late-1990s?
 
#21
#21
I have no problem with you, tabram but I have to disagree with you. Our offensive line is mediocre at best. Our defensive line applies very little pressure to any opponent. Alabama`s big guys are gonna trample us and I hate it!
 

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#22
#22
sjt18 said:
Foster's decision to come back looks like a mistake if his projection was indeed 2nd round last year.
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There were too many running backs in front of him for a 2nd round pick to be possible.
 
#23
#23
tabrams said:
If you seriously think we have LESS talent than Boise State and the rest of those SUCKER schools, you must be smokin' CRANK..........Our coaching SUX, period.....If you'd like to see the difference in what a good coach can do, look at Bruce Pearl in year 1.......took a bunch of guys who BLEW the year before with like a 12-19 record or something, and won over 20 games, went to NCAA 3 straight years, made sweet 16 2 years in a row.....that's what a good coach can do.......I really hope u were joking earlier, UT always has AWESOME talent in football, period........
Click to expand...
It's called a "tongue in cheek" comment. And I smoke CRACK, not CRANK.
 
#24
#24
hndog609 said:
Well, it might be a myth to overstate it but there is an empirical argument. Here is the number of Rivals 4* or better players per school '05-'08.

FL- 65
LSU- 56
GA- 54
AL- 50
TN- 42

This is something that is going to be an issue regardless of who is coaching as I make a case for here:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...red-mh-must-hire-post1667588.html#post1667588
Click to expand...

Here's one thing I want to make clear even though I agree that having 2 bad classes out of the last 4 is going to haunt us in the near future....when I said the "recruiting myth" I meant that I think its not accurate to say the product we have on the field right now isn't talented enough to win...

Your stats are from 05-08 but honestly, other than AJ Green, Julio Jones, and a handful of others the 08 class isn't really effecting anyone yet...i.e. UT hasn't yet reaped the "benefits" of such a bad class...

With that being said if you look at 04-07(the classes that are on the field right now) we are up there with the best of them..

In that time frame UT has 2 top 5 finishes and a near top 10(11th in 04) to go with a less than spectacular but still top 25(23 in 06) finish in recruiting...

I for one am not going to buy into the cop-out that we don't have the talent....I truly believe that its there but we are not reaping the benefits of it like other top SEC schools are doing with theirs
 
#25
#25
Fulmer had no problems going into GA and recruiting when Rodney Garner was here.....

Two things that deserve notice.
1. Other than Kentucky highschool football is better in every other state in the South. It has always been that way. Yet, Tennessee has always found a way to be competitive.

Now I've seen the studies. Florida has a distinct recruiting advantage over everyone in the conference. EVERYONE without exception. That doesn't mean we should just fold the tent. Look no further than Coker, Bowden and Zook when it comes to examples. You don't set up shop and automatically win anywhere. You have to work for it.

Nebraska assembled arguably the best college football team of all time is not a talent rich state at all. When they were playing for NCs and beating the snot out of UT they were still playing 8 man highschool football in parts of the state.

Winning attracts winners. Reclamation projects are a tough sell these days. Especially for bland coaches.

2. Regardless of the economy the world continues to shrink. You can be anywhere in the country in 5 or 6 hours (at the most).
 
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