Recruiting forum off topic thread (no politics, covid, or hot button issues)

[#Vol4Life1991]

Throwing the race card around must have not helped Marrow with this kid.

What’s the back story on that? I’ve read several ppl on here elluding to their coach has a history of something racial or something

 

[DaddyChad]

What’s the back story on that? I’ve read several ppl on here elluding to their coach has a history of something racial or something

In our time now, we have so much diversity on our staff and in our athletic department, and I think that's one of the biggest things I commend Mark Stoops on. Mark Stoops has one of the most diverse staffs in college football. It used to be that you had to have one on offense and one on defense, and that's it. You hit the quota. You still see some of that, and it's a shame. And that's what I tell the kids I'm recruiting - and I don't care if other college coaches are listening - if I'm recruiting against you, and your parents see there's two or even three African Americans on your staff of ten, something is wrong. And I don't hide that. When my son was coming out getting recruited, when my daughter was getting recruited, there had to be some diversity.

TRANSCRIPT: Vince Marrow talks with KSR about ongoing protests in Kentucky

 

[DaddyChad]

Except everyone is racist except Kentucky when they’re recruiting a kid. It’s a recurring thing that comes up. There’s just a little background of what he’s said publicly. You can imagine it’s way more dirty in recruiting.

 

[Montrell Hardy]

Except everyone is racist except Kentucky when they’re recruiting a kid. It’s a recurring thing that comes up. There’s just a little background of what he’s said publicly. You can imagine it’s way more dirty in recruiting.

Stoops and Marrow are the biggest negative recruiters in the country. Ask any staff in the Big 10, SEC or ACC and they will all say the same thing about them. Doesn’t matter if another school has minorities at all 10 positions on staff. The only non racist staff in the country in their mind is their own. It’s laughable some of these kids and their handlers fall for that BS.

 

[Maxwell865]

TRANSCRIPT: Vince Marrow talks with KSR about ongoing protests in Kentucky

Sounds like someone who doesn't want what's best for his kids... Just wants to check boxes.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Stoops and Marrow are the biggest negative recruiters in the country. Ask any staff in the Big 10, SEC or ACC and they will all say the same thing about them. Doesn’t matter if another school has minorities at all 10 positions on staff. The only non racist staff in the country in their mind is their own. It’s laughable some of these kids and their handlers fall for that BS.

Uh... 20%-30 black is a diverse staff. AAs have ~ 14% population density in the US, I do believe. So, pushing for a higher % representation on staffs, for the sake of just a naturally higher % representation, actually seems to go AGAINST his stated goal of diversity. It would take away spots for other diverse representation, such as Asian, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, etc.

 

[RiseToTheTop]

It’s def fact that Stoops and Marrow negative recruit more than anyone in the country. Everybody knows it.

 

[TheMagnificantOne]

Uh... 20%-30 black is a diverse staff. AAs have ~ 14% population density in the US, I do believe. So, pushing for a higher % representation on staffs, for the sake of just a naturally higher % representation, actually seems to go AGAINST his stated goal of diversity. It would take away spots for other diverse representation, such as Asian, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, etc.

How many player's are African Decent 88%

 

[Orange_Crush]

How many player's are African Decent 88%

OK. Is the argument that that should push staff "diversity" #s, or that Stoops and co should be pushing for less AA representation on teams in the name of "diversity"?

 

[bigl3327]

Uh... 20%-30 black is a diverse staff. AAs have ~ 14% population density in the US, I do believe. So, pushing for a higher % representation on staffs, for the sake of just a naturally higher % representation, actually seems to go AGAINST his stated goal of diversity. It would take away spots for other diverse representation, such as Asian, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, etc.

I don't agree with Morrow or their tactics, but I do want to clear up the overall argument that some black coaches have. It's not due to overall US population numbers. It has to do with the number of black players in major college football and the NFL vs the number of black coaches (particularly in head coach and coordinator positions) being extremely disproportionate. Like I said, that is the argument. I believe in hiring the best people for the job, which entails a ton of other factors beyond race. Someone could have a tremendous resume, but the chemistry or their philosophy doesn't match up at all with existing staff members. That's just one quick example. At the end of the day, it's still a business decision. While it would be foolish to think that discrimination doesn't exist at all, not many people are going to jeopardize the welfare and livelihood of their families specifically to try and meet some racial quota. That's unrealistic and poor business practice.

 

[DaddyChad]

How many player's are African Decent 88%

I guess if that’s the most important thing to a kid so be it. To me it’s being on a team that gets the most out of me whether they be black, white, Asian or beaver in Stoops case.

Isn’t saying that a team has to get to a certain percentage of black coaches to meet some sort of unspoken quota racist in and of itself?

 

[Geaux_Vols]

Eh, that comment isn’t really that inflammatory, and it’s not calling anyone racist (insert discussion about non-racist vs anti-racist, etc etc). Kentucky’s staff diversity may help them with prospects who put a lot of value in diversity, with Black kids who feel more comfortable around coaches that look like them (this is a natural human trait). That’s fine. Stoops and co. do far more questionable negative recruiting about other things in my opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Orange_Crush]

I don't agree with Morrow or their tactics, but I do want to clear up the overall argument that some black coaches have. It's not due to overall US population numbers. It has to do with the number of black players in major college football and the NFL vs the number of black coaches (particularly in head coach and coordinator positions) being extremely disproportionate. Like I said, that is the argument. I believe in hiring the best people for the job, which entails a ton of other factors beyond race. Someone could have a tremendous resume, but the chemistry or their philosophy doesn't match up at all with existing staff members. That's just one quick example. At the end of the day, it's still a business decision. While it would be foolish to think that discrimination doesn't exist at all, not many people are going to jeopardize the welfare and livelihood of their families specifically to try and meet some racial quota. That's unrealistic and poor business practice.

You and I are on the same page, friend.

As mentioned earlier though, the argument of coaches as you mention (syncing up with the % of AA players) can cause a logical backlash. One could just as well ask why they're not arguing for a more natural diversity on the roster, instead of a less natural diversity on staffs?

But as mentioned, I support hiring and recruiting the best players/coaches, despite race. If that meant we had an all-black, or all-hispanic team and staff, I'd cheer that.

 

[DaddyChad]

I don't agree with Morrow or their tactics, but I do want to clear up the overall argument that some black coaches have. It's not due to overall US population numbers. It has to do with the number of black players in major college football and the NFL vs the number of black coaches (particularly in head coach and coordinator positions) being extremely disproportionate. Like I said, that is the argument. I believe in hiring the best people for the job, which entails a ton of other factors beyond race. Someone could have a tremendous resume, but the chemistry or their philosophy doesn't match up at all with existing staff members. That's just one quick example. At the end of the day, it's still a business decision. While it would be foolish to think that discrimination doesn't exist at all, not many people are going to jeopardize the welfare and livelihood of their families specifically to try and meet some racial quota. That's unrealistic and poor business practice.

Absolutely agree with this.

Agree also that sometimes great football coaches are poor fits for certain programs. Hell you can point to head coaches like that, Harsin at Auburn etc.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

The racist card imagine that. When all else fails accuse racism. What a farce by the UK staff. GBO!

 

[onevol74]

TRANSCRIPT: Vince Marrow talks with KSR about ongoing protests in Kentucky

Looks like another divider, not a uniter.

 

[Devo182]

Other than Gulf Shores/Orange Beach why anyone would choose to live in all of the above is beyond me. West TN is bad enough

Love GS and Orange Beach. So relaxed. And The Hangout. But it might as well be Coastal Florida...doesn't feel like Alabama.

 

[you]

Stoops and Marrow are the biggest negative recruiters in the country. Ask any staff in the Big 10, SEC or ACC and they will all say the same thing about them. Doesn’t matter if another school has minorities at all 10 positions on staff. The only non racist staff in the country in their mind is their own. It’s laughable some of these kids and their handlers fall for that BS.

Dang. It’s one thing to say “we’re better at football than our opponents.” It’s another level to call your opponents racist in an attempt to negative recruit.

 

[Glitch]

Love GS and Orange Beach. So relaxed. And The Hangout. But it might as well be Coastal Florida...doesn't feel like Alabama.

Too many branches in the local family trees?

 

[VOLuptuousBOOMS]

Our entire defensive staff are minorities except Ekler. 6 out of 10 overall.

For the record, Kentucky only has 4 out of 10.

Tired, and divisive rhetoric that is clearly just a ploy used for their own personal benefit. Even though it isn’t even a factual statement.

Few things chap my ass like outright lies.

 

[sjt18]

How many player's are African Decent 88%

Well, yeah that supports the point you were responding to. Those players are on the team not because of the color of their skin but because of their talent and skill. If you were looking for "diversity" that matched or approximated the population then you would have about 55 white scholarship players, 15 Hispanic players, 13 black players, and 2 "other".

Coaching jobs should be awarded in the EXACT same way scholarship offers are- skill, talent, and experience.

 

[Devo182]

Well, yeah that supports the point you were responding to. Those players are on the team not because of the color of their skin but because of their talent and skill. If you were looking for "diversity" that matched or approximated the population then you would have about 55 white scholarship players, 15 Hispanic players, 13 black players, and 2 "other".

Coaching jobs should be awarded in the EXACT same way scholarship offers are- skill, talent, and experience.

He's saying it would make sense if more than 14% of coaches were black...because so many college and pro players are black. And coaches tend to have been players. Unless you're Butch Jones

Nothing controversial about that and has been a topic of discussion in the NFL for a long time.

Now...you'd have to really dig to see how many former players become coaches or try to become coaches at any level...and that would be a superior number to begin with imo. Could white players have a higher rate of going into coaching? That's a possibility. But correlating black coaches to the 14% number doesn't make a lot of sense either.

 

[sjt18]

He's saying it would make sense if more than 14% of coaches were black...because so many college and pro players are black. And coaches tend to have been players. Unless you're Butch Jones

Players, yes. Star players, not necessarily. Mid-majors and lower level schools produce a lot of coaches. Just in general, being able to play doesn't mean you can coach and vice versa.

Nothing controversial about that and has been a topic of discussion in the NFL for a long time.

It is not "controversial" because the wrong side is getting its way. We should be past looking at skin as a qualifier by now and especially in professional sports.

Now...you'd have to really dig to see how many former players become coaches or try to become coaches at any level...and that would be a superior number to begin with imo. Could white players have a higher rate of going into coaching? That's a possibility. But correlating black coaches to the 14% number doesn't make a lot of sense either.

I think the sooner we get past the idea of grouping people according to their skin tone rather than their ability... the better.

 

[SweetasSoda]

Players, yes. Star players, not necessarily. Mid-majors and lower level schools produce a lot of coaches. Just in general, being able to play doesn't mean you can coach and vice versa.

It is not "controversial" because the wrong side is getting its way. We should be past looking at skin as a qualifier by now and especially in professional sports.


I think the sooner we get past the idea of grouping people according to their skin tone rather than their ability... the better.

I really hate that we divide people into groups because of skin color. I don’t care why you’re doing it. I hate it.

 

[Devo182]

Players, yes. Star players, not necessarily. Mid-majors and lower level schools produce a lot of coaches. Just in general, being able to play doesn't mean you can coach and vice versa.

It is not "controversial" because the wrong side is getting its way. We should be past looking at skin as a qualifier by now and especially in professional sports.


I think the sooner we get past the idea of grouping people according to their skin tone rather than their ability... the better.

Ideally, sure. But idealism shouldn't blind us to reality when there is so much racially biased hiring and implicit biases (all of this is based on actual research and implicit bias tests show it is rampant in America...fwiw that doesn't make someone "racist"...it's just that we've been programmed. I've taken a number of them and could literally feel my brain working overtime on the Christian vs Muslim test...it came out saying I had a slight bias against Islam/Muslims...that's 20 years of media programming, same goes for race in America unfortunately).

So when there is hiring bias and underrepresentation, then questions are asked. Again, hopefully one day this isn't an issue. That's exactly why people are working on it.

It may also be easy for us, in the power majority, to disregard it. You won't see many on the other side agreeing with the status quo. I try to put myself in their shoes, because many of my best friends have told me enough stories to feel saddened by it all. Empathy and understanding is important. Our America isn't always their America.