Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#9,277
#9,277
BJHSVol said:
Separation of Church and State means that we don't have a state-sponsored religion. If we kept things like the 10 commandments outside courthouses and In government buildings it's implying that Christianity is the religion of the government.
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Well there's nothing in the Constitution about separation of church and state. That's why Sharia law is a fear to most Americans because it can happen. As for the ten commandments outside a state or federal building if the people votes for it it's fine (same with any other religious laws outside a building) and why do people complain about the 10 commandments outside a courthouse anyway? Most of those commands are in our laws anyway.
 
#9,278
#9,278
Its also in our National Anthem and on our money. I get annoyed when the ACLU fluffs their feathers about any of it. If it is already there and has been for decades, its not hurting anybody.
 
#9,279
#9,279
BJHSVol said:
Separation of Church and State means that we don't have a state-sponsored religion. If we kept things like the 10 commandments outside courthouses and In government buildings it's implying that Christianity is the religion of the government.
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

How is posting the 10 commandments making a law? Whether it makes people happy or not, the majority of the founders and the people in this country at the beginning were Christians. At a bare minimum, they acknowledged that our rights came from our creator and not from man.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

They felt that it was self-evident that there is a Creator and we are endowed by said Creator with certain unalienable rights. This country was founded as a Christian nation. Like it or not. In 2015, a Gallup poll showed that 75% of this country still identified themselves as Christian. So 3/4 of the nation is being held hostage by 1/4? That sounds like the court system is legislating through their court rulings, instead of just upholding the laws and determining their legality under the Constitution.
 
#9,281
#9,281
InVOLuntary said:
Your implications earlier were anyone that believes in a higher power was less intelligent.
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Again, you inferred that. I called Bass's belief that only he and those agree with him have access to truth a dangerous and closed minded belief. But I never called or implied anyone here was stupid. I'm sorry if you took that from my words. But it seems like reading differing opinions just angers you in general.

Just because there is a stone tablet that sits on public property doesn't mean you have to go by them. Our constitution doesn't say freedom from religion it says freedom of religion. Whether you like it or not this country was founded on Christian principals.
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1. No, I'm not forced to follow it. But when my tax dollars go towards maintaining a piece of government tax dollars that condemns me for having different beliefs, there's a problem there. You won't admit this, but you'd feel the same way if your local courthouse put up the buddhist/islamic/hindu equivalent of the ten commandments and used your tax dollars to pay for it.

2. Our constitution says the government won't favor one religion over another. I know our founding fathers were mostly all christian (though there were some who had borderline hippy-ish views of christianity and a few oddball deists and non-religious folk among them...the assertion some try to make nowadays that they were all deists is pseudo-history not based in fact). IMO that makes the fact that they had the sense to throw in the establishment clause that much more admirable and ingenious.

That's the problem with your type. You have a complete lack of respect for others beliefs. "OMG, can you believe that they have the gall to put the ten commandments on display? That's offensive to me. Let's get the ACLU involved." Instead of over looking it like all the crap that many Christians find offensive like Christians do. The only people forced to be tolerant are Christians. Heck, Christian bakers are required to make cakes for gay couples when it goes against their religious beliefs.
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Your type? LOL

Dude, I don't really care about the ten commandments being in front of a courthouse that much (especially if it's something old that has been there for decades and is part of a town's history and culture) personally because it doesn't affect me. It's as much of a non-issue to me as Wal-Mart putting up "Happy Holidays" signs or Starbucks not making red cups for Christmas.

But I do think acknowledge that, legally speaking, the people who are against it have the stronger argument.


FTR, I do think the cake thing was BS as well. We don't need a law for that and should just let society self-censure businesses who are intolerant the good old fashioned way: by not giving them business if their practices bother you.
 
#9,283
#9,283
Glitch said:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

How is posting the 10 commandments making a law? Whether it makes people happy or not, the majority of the founders and the people in this country at the beginning were Christians. At a bare minimum, they acknowledged that our rights came from our creator and not from man.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

They felt that it was self-evident that there is a Creator and we are endowed by said Creator with certain unalienable rights. This country was founded as a Christian nation. Like it or not. In 2015, a Gallup poll showed that 75% of this country still identified themselves as Christian. So 3/4 of the nation is being held hostage by 1/4? That sounds like the court system is legislating through their court rulings, instead of just upholding the laws and determining their legality under the Constitution.
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You're quoting the declaration of independence, which was not written by our current government and has no bearing on our constitution.
 
#9,284
#9,284
bignewt said:
Granted in the 1770s just about 100% were Christian but I get your point.
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Exactly. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were written as if it was understood that God was implied. People today acting as if our nation was not founded as a Christian nation are fooling themselves. When they said "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:", they were really talking about the different denominations of Christianity, but it can be applied to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or atheism. However, the county courthouse hanging the Ten Commandments, has zero to do with Congress making a law about religion. Congress has zero right to tell a county courthouse what they can and cannot do.

10th Amendment -
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The Federal Government has grown way past their Constitutional mandate and are now telling our local communities how and how not to live. We have got to get back to the basics. I know you probably agree Newt since you are a Libertarian.
 
#9,285
#9,285
Glitch said:
Exactly. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were written as if it was understood that God was implied. People today acting as if our nation was not founded as a Christian nation are fooling themselves. When they said "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:", they were really talking about the different denominations of Christianity, but it can be applied to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or atheism. However, the county courthouse hanging the Ten Commandments, has zero to do with Congress making a law about religion. Congress has zero right to tell a county courthouse what they can and cannot do.

10th Amendment -
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The Federal Government has grown way past their Constitutional mandate and are now telling our local communities how and how not to live. We have got to get back to the basics. I know you probably agree Newt since you are a Libertarian.
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Amen to that brother! This litigation happy society is sickening. Get the f over it if it is not directly affecting you, and you know if it is.
 
#9,286
#9,286
Darth_Shiveman said:
You're quoting the declaration of independence, which was not written by our current government and has no bearing on our constitution.
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I know what I'm quoting. I quoted it, and it was written by the men and type of men that wrote our Constitution. It certainly has bearing on our Constitution. They didn't think that they had to spell it out to everybody because it was "self-evident".
 
#9,287
#9,287
InVOLuntary said:
If you can't see the difference in the two there is no since in continuing. That's about a far reaching analogy as I've ever seen
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Can you actually explain your reasoning why your non-belief deserves representation, but mine doesn't though? Because so far all you've done is sidestep the question completely.



Your right they could, but do you realize the backlash they'd get from the likes of you? Ever heard of Hobby Lobby or Chicken Filet? They get grief for not opening on Sundays. We're talking about private companies that have caught grief for something they believe in. Hobby Lobby has been sued because of some of their policies that have a religious basis.
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Private companies catch grief for everything these days. Last year some groups of Christians freaked out on Starbucks for not having Christmas cups. Every year some other groups flip their wigs at some company or another using the term "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas.

Americans just love to be outraged nowadays. It's not exclusive to non-believers or to Christians.


Where else might I go to find a crowd of predominantly Muslims attendinga soccer game? Regardless if I went to a stadium that was predominantly one religion I wouldn't participate but I would be tolerant and respectful. There is a difference in participating and being tolerant. If I found myself a community that I didn't feel comfortable in, do you know what I would do? I would move. I wouldn't try to make everyone conform to my way of thinking.
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1. What if you didn't have money to move? Not everybody can move on a whim.

2. How is asking schools to have a moment of silence so that people of any faith can pray as they see fit making everyone conform to my way of thinking?

Uh, you need to try again. There have been many lawsuits filed. I would cite them but you seem to have enough time to research for yourself. The state of Alabama is one that went to the Supreme Court. It was stricken down by the court simply because the word prayer was used in the description for the silent time period that was being allowed for meditation and prayer
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Honestly I've never heard of one. I searched, but everything I found was about prayers that were led by teachers/school administrators, not lawsuits for allowing a kid to have a prayer to himself.


So I am going to ask you to cite cases of schools being sued for allowing a student to pray in school. It wouldn't surprise me too much if one existed, honestly, because Americans are lawsuit crazy about everything nowadays. But almost all of the lawsuits you see are based on the fact that a school employee led a prayer in a situation where students (regardless of belief or consent) felt compelled to join in.

It's always struck me as completely hilarious is the only ones that have been forced to be tolerant are the Christians. Anyway, I'm done with this. It's obvious that all you want is everybody to bend over to make sure you don't get offended by some cross hanging in public or photo of a bible in some government building.
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You've misread me. I have my opinions, but really I don't get outraged or offended by much of anything. I tend to keep my opinions to myself in person (which is why it's nice for me to have a forum to discuss them here) and just let people/things be as they are. I'm sorry that me having different thoughts and expressing them here bothers you so much.

But know that me expressing my opinions here is very different from "[wanting]everybody to bend over" for me.
 
#9,288
#9,288
avolation said:
Matthew 5:10 - "blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Acts 5:41 - "The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name."

I see persecution through a little bit different lens. Yes our country was founded on Christian beliefs, but this doesn't mean persecution won't find its way to believers. Christians will be persecuted and that's ok. The important thing is to maintain and keep your faith. I know Darth feels strongly about his beliefs as well, but I don't see it as him being disrespectful. Persecution is what Coptic Christians are going through in Egypt on a daily basis.
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:good!:

I appreciate your input
 
#9,289
#9,289
This country was founded as a Christian nation. However, that foundation has slowly been chipped away until you get this sort of behavior:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/0...r-son-forced-to-recite-pledge-allegiance.html

Now, I am all for grown adults, peaceably assembling or protest to address what they feel are unfair laws or practices by our government. However, a first grader doesn't even know what the Constitution says or how our government works. I doubt his parents know what it says either. They got their talking points from the MSM and then shoved them down their children's throats.

Darth, you think the next generation is going to be some free thinking generation because they are less likely to be "duped" by religion? LOL. You are just exchanging religion for this garbage. When you remove God, you have to hope that people will continue to obey the laws that the government passes. You will end up with people just doing whatever they want because they don't like this law or that. God gives people a basic code of goodness to live by and they live by that code, for the most part, because they fear God. When you remove God from everything, what is there to fear anymore? The government?

It scares and saddens me that my children, grandchildren, and so on will have to deal with this continued assault on personal responsibility and religious decency. The only comfort I can draw is that what was written in Revelation may finally come to pass and God will have the final victory at last.
 
#9,291
#9,291
Glitch said:
This country was founded as a Christian nation. However, that foundation has slowly been chipped away until you get this sort of behavior:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/0...r-son-forced-to-recite-pledge-allegiance.html

Now, I am all for grown adults, peaceably assembling or protest to address what they feel are unfair laws or practices by our government. However, a first grader doesn't even know what the Constitution says or how our government works. I doubt his parents know what it says either. They got their talking points from the MSM and then shoved them down their children's throats.

Darth, you think the next generation is going to be some free thinking generation because they are less likely to be "duped" by religion? LOL. You are just exchanging religion for this garbage. When you remove God, you have to hope that people will continue to obey the laws that the government passes. You will end up with people just doing whatever they want because they don't like this law or that. God gives people a basic code of goodness to live by and they live by that code, for the most part, because they fear God. When you remove God from everything, what is there to fear anymore? The government?

It scares and saddens me that my children, grandchildren, and so on will have to deal with this continued assault on personal responsibility and religious decency. The only comfort I can draw is that what was written in Revelation may finally come to pass and God will have the final victory at last.
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The "final victory?" didn't he create us and this world? Isn't he in control of every single thing? Revelations is just God saying game over kids wrap it up, mankind is over. Its like Ragnarok, vague and depressing unless you happen to be good with G.O.D. then poof you are raptured. Everybody else gets beheaded or takes the mark of the beast.

Honestly if they would have left the last book out, the Bible would hold more validity than it already does.
 
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#9,292
#9,292
bignewt said:
The "final victory?" didn't he create us and this world? Isn't he in control of every single thing? Revelations is just God saying game over kids wrap it up, mankind is over. Its like Ragnarok, vague and depressing unless you happen to be good with G.O.D. then poof you are raptured. Everybody else gets beheaded or takes the mark of the beast.

Honestly if they would have left the last book out, the Bible would hold more validity than it already does.
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I like it. I have put my faith and trust in Jesus. I'll be raptured. I would hope that more people's eyes would be opened to see the state of our world and come to know Jesus and follow his teachings of love. I don't want or condone anyone killing or forcing Christianity upon anyone. If people followed the true teaching of Jesus and loved everyone as themselves, then the world would be paradise.
 
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#9,293
#9,293
Rishvol said:
Same thing really
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Besides the fact that a lot of them seem to believe in ghosts, I haven't noticed too much superstition.

Shrines and temples sell a lot of little charms and knick knacks and stuff for good luck and you can pay like a dollar to put up little signs or stuff for good luck. But most of the people I know who do stuff like that do more out of a sense of novelty than anything.

The one thing people do seem to be superstitious about is blood type (especially older people). A lot of people look at it like some back home look at horoscopes.

But overall I haven't noticed that people seem much more superstitious than back in the states. Some are and some aren't
 
#9,294
#9,294
I watched a video explaining that science can't prove the existence of God. The speaker said that due to his omnipotence that he exists outside of space, matter, and time. A lot of early men of science would devout christians and we seeking to understand our creators work, not prove that he doesn't exist.
 
#9,295
#9,295
Glitch said:
I like it. I have put my faith and trust in Jesus. I'll be raptured. I would hope that more people's eyes would be opened to see the state of our world and come to know Jesus and follow his teachings of love. I don't want or condone anyone killing or forcing Christianity upon anyone. If people followed the true teaching of Jesus and loved everyone as themselves, then the world would be paradise.
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...or no Rapture and you die when its your time and you go to Heaven. Or a Rapture and the world ends. Personally I like the world, its beautiful and challenging and full of rewards. The state of the world has always been the state of the world, in flux with good and evil at varying degrees and that is not going to change.

I know one thing if the Rapture happens today, we won't get to talk on Volnation anymore...in fact millions of good, innocent humans much like yourself, through no fault of their own will have to go through hell. Not cool God, not cool.
 
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#9,296
#9,296
Glitch said:
This country was founded as a Christian nation. However, that foundation has slowly been chipped away until you get this sort of behavior:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/0...r-son-forced-to-recite-pledge-allegiance.html

Now, I am all for grown adults, peaceably assembling or protest to address what they feel are unfair laws or practices by our government. However, a first grader doesn't even know what the Constitution says or how our government works. I doubt his parents know what it says either. They got their talking points from the MSM and then shoved them down their children's throats.
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Personally, I don't think children should be forced to say the pledge. I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits either, though. I kind of see both sides of this.


IMO the teacher should have just let the kids sit down and ignore his behavior since he (or more likely, his family) just wanted attention anyway.



Darth, you think the next generation is going to be some free thinking generation because they are less likely to be "duped" by religion? LOL. You are just exchanging religion for this garbage.
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I never said any of that lol. I just said that it's more likely that my beliefs will be represented and that people like me will face less backlash for stating their opinions and beliefs.

Expecting a whole generation of people to become rational and free thinking is just setting yourself up for disappointment, regardless of their beliefs.

When you remove God, you have to hope that people will continue to obey the laws that the government passes. You will end up with people just doing whatever they want because they don't like this law or that. God gives people a basic code of goodness to live by and they live by that code, for the most part, because they fear God. When you remove God from everything, what is there to fear anymore? The government?
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Nah. There are a lot of European countries with extremely high rates of non-belief that have much lower crime rates than we do. And our crime rates have actually been steadily declining over the past 3 decades as non-belief has gone up.


I live in one of the three largest cities in the world population wise surrounded by millions of people who see religion as a mostly outdated concept. There are more than twice as many people living here than in the state of Tennessee and there were fewer murders here than in the city of Memphis last year.

Living in a safe, low crime area has much more to do with the standard of living than with the religious-ness (or lack thereof) of the people living there.


It scares and saddens me that my children, grandchildren, and so on will have to deal with this continued assault on personal responsibility and religious decency. The only comfort I can draw is that what was written in Revelation may finally come to pass and God will have the final victory at last.
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I agree with the part about personal responsibility. But I'm sure your family will be fine. There have been much, much worse times and places for Christians to live than in the US today.
 
#9,297
#9,297
bignewt said:
...or no Rapture and you die when its your time and you go to Heaven. Or a Rapture and the world ends. Personally I like the world, its beautiful and challenging and full of rewards. The state of the world has always been the state of the world, in flux with good and evil at varying degrees and that is not going to change.

I know one thing if the Rapture happens today, we won't get to talk on Volnation anymore...in fact millions of good, innocent humans much like yourself, through no fault of their own will have to go through hell. Not cool God, not cool.
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Define innocent
 
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#9,298
#9,298
SergeantVol said:
I watched a video explaining that science can't prove the existence of God. The speaker said that due to his omnipotence that he exists outside of space, matter, and time. A lot of early men of science would devout christians and we seeking to understand our creators work, not prove that he doesn't exist.
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The more I study science the more I see the glory and marvel that is God and his creation. Some things truly bring a manly tear to your eye
 
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#9,300
#9,300
avolation said:
Matthew 5:10 - "blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Acts 5:41 - "The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name."

I see persecution through a little bit different lens. Yes our country was founded on Christian beliefs, but this doesn't mean persecution won't find its way to believers. Christians will be persecuted and that's ok. The important thing is to maintain and keep your faith. I know Darth feels strongly about his beliefs as well, but I don't see it as him being disrespectful. Persecution is what Coptic Christians are going through in Egypt on a daily basis.
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I agree with this, and believe that the truly persecuted Christians in other countries would laugh at us for thinking that Christians are being "persecuted" in America. Now, are we losing more and more of the freedoms we have enjoyed for over 200 years? Yes, definitely!

Now, I read recently, that in Canada, they are starting to take children away from the "bad" parents who do not teach their children that the LGBT community is good. That would be persecution, IMHO!
 
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