Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#1,051
#1,051
Darth_Shiveman said:
Great discussion here guys! A few more questions:

1. Can a woman be a preacher or head of a church? Can she lead a public prayer?

2. Do you believe in predestination? Why or why not?

3. Is smoking marijuana a sin?
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If serious; good questions, Darth. Three that you know would be all over the board with responses that would spark an emotional fire if the posters are so inclined.

1. My personal response is that it is up to God, since being in a role such as that requires his calling. The question is divisive to various belief systems as you know. I am a Southern Baptist now with over 20 years in the denomination, with nearly 40 years of United Methodist also in my background. All of the local churches of which I have been a member allowed for women to lead public prayer. The UMC has provided for women to be Bishops (the highest position) down through the ranks. The Southern Baptists do not, other than for women to serve in vocational ministries. However, it is left up to each local church to decide. The SB view is more conservative as it apples to scripture interpretation. We have no issue with it in our family as my wife and daughter are conservative and view their roles as women in a similar manner. All of us have God given roles. We need to perform them as God leads.

2. I am a limited believer in predestination in that I believe that the elect and those purposed by God are predestined. As an example Paul would be considered one of the elect. He was chosen for service by Jesus without requesting or even desiring to be chosen. Since God and thereby Jesus knows all things before they happen, he would know Paul would persecute the early church, which is why Jesus asks him why he persecutes him (personally), and not his church on the road to Damascus. Yet, he knew Paul's heart was sincere for God and he would respond as needed in the early days of Christianity. For those purposed many people point to Pharaoh and the related Romans scripture as being predestined for Hell. However, Pharaoh had many opportunities to turn from his sin and oppression of God's chosen people, which he refused. So he was used by God for God's purposes, which we none have the right to question. Scripture states repeatedly you cannot continue to turn away from God and expect there to be no consequences in both the OT and NT. Beyond that I am not Calvinistic and believe all have the opportunity to accept the grace Jesus has provided. For those that have never hear of him, I believe we serve a just and merciful God who will provide for them based on his sole determination. But once a person hears, there is only one way to salvation and restoration to God.

3. If it is a sin to you or to another person who believe it is a sin that you are influencing in a way that may lead them to harm, MJ is a sin. MJ is a naturally occurring plant. It's presence doesn't mean it was meant for getting people high by smoking. It has legitimate medicinal uses. Is it being used for that or to get high? We know that God speaks to drunkenness as being sinful. Yet, we know that wine was drank. We know the wine was also for medicinal purposes to help digestion and due to clean water being in limited supply. So a similar standard applies IMO.
 
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#1,052
#1,052
Vols4us said:
If serious; good questions, Darth. Three that you know would be all over the board with responses that would spark an emotional fire if the posters are so inclined.

1. My personal response is that it is up to God, since being in a role such as that requires his calling. The question is divisive to various believe systems as you know. I am a Southern Baptist now with over 20 years in the denomination, with nearly 40 years of United Methodist also in my background. All of the local churches of which I have been a member allowed for women to lead public prayer. The UMC has provided for women to be Bishops (the highest position) down through the ranks. The Southern Baptists do not, other than for women to serve in vocational ministries. However, it is left up to each local church to decide. The SB view is more conservative as it apples to scripture interpretation. We have no issue with it in our family as my wife and daughter are conservative and view their roles as women in a similar manner. All of us have God given roles. We need to perform them as God leads.

2. I am a limited believer in predestination in that I believe that the elect and those purposed by God are predestined. As an example Paul would be considered one of the elect. He was chosen for service by Jesus without requesting or even desiring to be chosen. Since God and thereby Jesus knows all things before they happen, he would know Paul would persecute the early church, which is why Jesus asks him why he persecutes him (personally), and not his church on the road to Damascus. Yet, he knew Paul's heart was sincere for God and he would respond as needed in the early days of Christianity. For those purposed many people point to Pharaoh and the related Romans scripture as being predestined for Hell. However, Pharaoh had many opportunities to turn from his sin and oppression of God's chosen people, which he refused. So he was used by God for God's purposes, which we none have the right to question. Scripture states repeatedly you cannot continue to turn away from God and expect there to be no consequences in both the OT and NT. Beyond that I am not Calvinistic and believe all have the opportunity to accept the grace Jesus has provided. For those that have never hear of him, I believe we serve a just and merciful God who will provide for them based on his sole determination. But once a person hears, there is only one way to salvation and restoration to God.

3. If it is a sin to you or to another person who believe it is a sin that you are influencing in a way that may lead them to harm, MJ is a sin. MJ is a naturally occurring plant. It's presence doesn't mean it was meant for getting people high by smoking. It has legitimate medicinal uses. Is it being used for that or to get high? We know that God speaks to drunkenness as being sinful. Yet, we know that wine was drank. We know the wine was also for medicinal purposes to help digestion and due to clean water being in limited supply. So a similar standard applies IMO.
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Dang it, you did better I.
 
#1,053
#1,053
InVOLuntary said:
And, I'm not laughing at your position, I'm laughing at your dismissal of other's opinions and attitude that "I take the Bible thus way so I'm 100% correct." You continue to tell me to read my bible because I need to study more to come to the same conclusion as you. That's self righteous if I've ever seen it.

Do you believe you have you have to be baptized to get to heaven?
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Is the bible not the authority on everything? I didn't tell you to read more and be forced to come to my conclusion. I said read, be honest, and do what you think is best. I will do, and continue to do the same thing. If my view changes, then so be it. I don't view it as self righteous when I default to the bible for an answer though.

I believe so based on the verses we can read.
 
#1,054
#1,054
LittleCat said:
Is the bible not the authority on everything? I didn't tell you to read more and be forced to come to my conclusion. I said read, be honest, and do what you think is best. I will do, and continue to do the same thing. If my view changes, then so be it. I don't view it as self righteous when I default to the bible for an answer though.

I believe so based on the verses we can read.
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I have read it and that's what brought me to my conclusions.

So, baptism is required to go to heaven, does sprinkling meet the criteria for being baptized?
 
#1,056
#1,056
InVOLuntary said:
I have read it and that's what brought me to my conclusions.

So, baptism is required to go to heaven, does sprinkling meet the criteria for being baptized?
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Then that's fine, and there's nothing more to say. I'm glad if that's the case.

Imo, no. I could go into detail but I understand where this is going.
 
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#1,057
#1,057
LittleCat said:
Then that's fine, and there's nothing more to say. I'm glad if that's the case.

Imo, no. I could go into detail but I understand where this is going.
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Lol, I've been saying that door some time. Sorry for disappoint that you weren't able to save this lost soul.

So, baptism is required to enter the Kingdom, sprinkling does not qualify, so I'm destined to spend eternity in hell?
 
#1,058
#1,058
InVOLuntary said:
Lol, I've been saying that door some time. Sorry for disappoint that you weren't able to save this lost soul.

So, baptism is required to enter the Kingdom, sprinkling does not qualify, so I'm destined to spend eternity in hell?
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I said that a while back. I wasn't trying to beat you over the head trying to get you to change like you seem to think. And you don't disappoint at all. I enjoy other viewpoints lol.

See, this is where I knew you were taking it. It's not my place to tell you where you are going either way. I'm sure you know Acts 2:38, and I will leave it to you to understand what baptism is, and what it means for you.
 
#1,059
#1,059
LittleCat said:
I said that a while back. I wasn't trying to beat you over the head trying to get you to change like you seem to think. And you don't disappoint at all. I enjoy other viewpoints lol.

See, this is where I knew you were taking it. It's not my place to tell you where you are going either way. I'm sure you know Acts 2:38, and I will leave it to you to understand what baptism is, and what it means for you.
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But the problem is you did condem me to hell by taking the stance you did. I assumed OG was Baptist. He denied that he was but I suspect whatever denomination he follows has strong Baptist leanings but I don't know. One of my best friends was the son of a Baptist minister. I invited him to me church one time. You'd have thought I'd asked him to a Jim Jones recruitment rally. He was always acting like Methodist were second class Christians. Then he got divorced. He was ostracized by his church, the church he grew up in. The church his dad was the preacher of for more than a decade.

Us old second class Methodist took him in. We didn't judge. I asked him if he thought the Baptist way was really what Christ would have wanted. I think you know the answer.
 
#1,060
#1,060
Per CARM:

"...the reason baptism is not necessary for salvation is that we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1, Eph. 2:8) and not by faith and a ceremony (Rom. 4:1-11). You see, a religious ceremony is a set of activities or forms peformed by someone. In the Bible, circumcision was a ceremony where one person performed a religious rite on another person. Likewise, baptism is also a ceremony where one person performs a religious rite on another person, but, we are saved by faith alone, and anything else we do, including ceremonies, will not help.

If we are saved by faith, then we are saved by faith when we believe and not when we get baptized, otherwise, we are not saved by faith. Furthermore, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then anyone who receives Christ on his deathbed in a hospital and who also believes Jesus is God in the flesh, who died and rose from the dead for his sins, etc., would go to Hell if he doesn't get baptized before he died. This would mean that we were not justified by faith because if we were, then the person would be saved. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to Hell since they weren't baptized. Remember, when someone says that baptism is necessary, there can be no exceptions, otherwise, it isn't necessary."

The rest of CARM's response to the issue may be read in the link below. If you are opposed to their view, so be it. Maybe you know more that they do, maybe you don't. However, if you want to understand opposing viewpoints better you may want to take time read it. In the examples above there has to be a serious stretch of human reasoning to justify salvation without baptism being OK if you go with the "it's necessary or it's required" route.

A clue - context, version you are reading of the Bible, etc.

https://carm.org/is-baptism-necessary-salvation
 
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#1,061
#1,061
InVOLuntary said:
I think women can be great ministers and lead a church.

I do believe in a sort of predestination. I believe God has a plan for each of us. It is our responsibilityto follow that plan. I think for us to be successful in all phases of life, we need to follow that plan. I believe life can be hard at times and it can be difficult to see what God has in store for us.

I think MJ is no different than alcohol in that it is something people put into their bodies to achieve an altered state of mind. I think probably both are sinful because of the damage each does to our bodies. I think anything we willfully do that hurts our bodies is sinful. It's one of my sins as I overeat way too much.
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I'm screwed.
 
#1,062
#1,062
InVOLuntary said:
But the problem is you did condem me to hell by taking the stance you did. I assumed OG was Baptist. He denied that he was but I suspect whatever denomination he follows has strong Baptist leanings but I don't know. One of my best friends was the son of a Baptist minister. I invited him to me church one time. You'd have thought I'd asked him to a Jim Jones recruitment rally. He was always acting like Methodist were second class Christians. Then he got divorced. He was ostracized by his church, the church he grew up in. The church his dad was the preacher of for more than a decade.

Us old second class Methodist took him in. We didn't judge. I asked him if he thought the Baptist way was really what Christ would have wanted. I think you know the answer.
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lol. Your friend's story paralleled mine that I posted on here. But now I am at a SB church that has grown way past the old junk. Sin is sin. Deal with it, get yourself right with the Lord, and be renewed.

A male HC teacher friend that went to the UMC church with us had been raised SB, but married a divorced SB pastor's daughter. He and I decided that we should form the perfect denomination. Methobapterial. Take the best of both worlds that was justified by scripture and win the world for Christ. Still might do that someday. :)
 
#1,064
#1,064
Vols4us said:
lol. Your friend's story paralleled mine that I posted on here. But now I am at a SB church that has grown way past the old junk. Sin is sin. Deal with it, get yourself right with the Lord, and be renewed.

A male HC teacher friend that went to the UMC church with us had been raised SB, but married a divorced SB pastor's daughter. He and I decided that we should form the perfect denomination. Methobapterial. Take the best of both worlds that was justified by scripture and win the world for Christ. Still might do that someday. :)
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I'll join you unless you try to drown me. :)
 
#1,066
#1,066
Well now that Trump is done for, I wonder if the establishment will pick Cruz or another secret candidate at the convention. Guess it's time to change the ole avi again :(
 
#1,068
#1,068
Catbone said:
Well now that Trump is done for, I wonder if the establishment will pick Cruz or another secret candidate at the convention. Guess it's time to change the ole avi again :(
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Why do you say that? Cruz winning Wisconsin doesn't guarantee anything.
 
#1,070
#1,070
volatil said:
What does this do for delegates count?
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Cat's seeing establishment at work behind the scenes trying to orchestrate anybody but Trump. Some analysts are seeing Cruz going after Rubio's delegates to shift the balance as they head into the convention.

Cruz will pick up the majority of delegates of 42. They know already he will get 24 of them. The rest will be decided by congressional district. He will still trail Trump by hundreds and the primaries are headed to Trump's territory.
 
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#1,071
#1,071
Vols4us said:
Cat's seeing establishment at work behind the scenes trying to orchestrate anybody but Trump. Some analysts are seeing Cruz going after Rubio's delegates to shift the balance as they head into the convention.

Cruz will pick up the majority of delegates of 42. They know already he will get 24 of them. The rest will be decided by congressional district. He will still trail Trump by hundreds and the primaries are headed to Trump's territory.
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Dang, just saw the poll numbers. I keep thinking now more and more that Trump will not get it. The party will find some way to hand it off to someone they deem more electable.
 
#1,072
#1,072
Mark my words here folks. There WILL be a contested convention and there WILL be riots when the GOP gives the nominee to a politician selected by the establishment. It will not be Trump and likely not Cruz either.
 
#1,073
#1,073
LittleCat said:
I can hope that I will pass my Physics test all day. I can really really hope that I pass it. I can believe I will pass it. I can say that I will pass it and convince myself I can do it. But if I don't do the work, study, and prepare than all my hope and belief is useless. Belief in Jesus is a huge step. It's not the only step though.
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The Lord helps he who helps himself...
:hi:
 
#1,074
#1,074
Catbone said:
Mark my words here folks. There WILL be a contested convention and there WILL be riots when the GOP gives the nominee to a politician selected by the establishment. It will not be Trump and likely not Cruz either.
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Wouldn't he just run independently?

Why riot when you can just write in vote? Granted his supporters have shown they are down for a good fight.
 
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