Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[BruinVol]

Is anyone saying that besides Bruin?

Involuntary

 

[InVOLuntary]

You say you always look at the money, but you say Butch will leave on his own? When has a coach ever quit and forfeited their buyout? He's not good enough to get an upgrade, so Butch quitting = Butch losing money = that will never happen.

I was talking about from the University's perspective.

 

[Kingston Vol]

https://twitter.com/VolPoll/status/910488717722361856

 

[jave36]

I was talking about from the University's perspective.

Ah, ok

 

[InVOLuntary]

Involuntary

I'm not advocating anything. I'm stating what I believe will happen.

 

[BigZiti09]

Those saying we should keep Butch after a 7-5 year, what are the reasons?

Is anyone saying that besides Bruin?

Involuntary

I'm not advocating keeping him at any record. If I look long term, I don't ever see him competing for the east. Coaches either have it or they don't and I don't think he has it. I think he's reached his Pinnacle here.

.

 

[volfanCLT]

.

Beat me to it.

 

[eazyTD]

What would you consider a bad record 7-5?

He is gone at 7-5. That would mean in year 5, Jones will have lost to UF, UGA, Bama, LSU and either Vanderbilt, Kentucky or South Carolina. Unacceptable for Currie.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

From the article. Buyout got larger.

They also upped his salary on the front end.

This is why I asked for a link. I knew you were wrong.

No agent worth his salt is gonna agree to an extension that doesn't increase the buyout. Butch Jones will get an extension, a new job or a buyout this winter.

I was worried this would happen lol


You misunderstood what I was saying: I was saying that they didn't change the yearly amount he would be owed for his buyout.


The numbers on his buyout basically stayed the same, just with a year added. Buyouts usually have some yearly amount that coaches receive if fired. So of course adding a year to the contract technically means "the buyout got larger," but they didn't raise the yearly amount owed at all.


Usually when a coach gets a meaningful extension, the numbers of that yearly amount go up fairly significantly (500k-1 million), at least on the front end. Malzahn's stayed steady. The only numbers in his contract that changed had to do with some money getting shifted to front of his contract and subtracted from the backend. It was a contractual band-aid and a pretty weak show of commitment to Malzahn, really.


In effect the contract extension he got last year was Auburn's way of saying:

"We could afford to fire you after the 2016 season, but we'll give you this season worry free. But by December 2017 that number will be right back where it was before, so get it done."

 

[McGeesPub]

It all comes down to the choices we have in life.

Many of our most vocal posters have chosen to conduct another coaching search - in September! Their choice, but IMO it's a waste of energy to do this now and undermines our team.

OTOH we can support our coaching staff and players for the next nine games (hopefully ten) and let the season play itself out before we replace any coaches. Our players, if not our coaching staff, deserve our support! GBO!

I haven't seen anyone say yet that they don't support the players, or that they don't want to win out. Logically though, it appears to be a long shot, and hey, it's a discussion forum.

 

[BigZiti09]

He is gone at 7-5. That would mean in year 5, Jones will have lost to UF, UGA, Bama, LSU and either Vanderbilt, Kentucky or South Carolina. Unacceptable for Currie.

The Florida loss this past weekend is as bad as or worse than losing to South Carolina or Vandy in my book. I can't stomach losing to a Florida team that is that bad. Watching that crap fest unfold for the 3rd time in 4 years is more than I can stomach.

That's just me though. I have an unhealthy hatred for that program.

 

[NMVol]

He is gone at 7-5. That would mean in year 5, Jones will have lost to UF, UGA, Bama, LSU and either Vanderbilt, Kentucky or South Carolina. Unacceptable for Currie.

So your earlier post was just an opinion?

 

[ionaVOL]

Georgia is going to be such a huge game for Butch. Have to get a win in that one. If that's a loss then SC, Kentucky, LSU, Vandy become must wins IMO.

 

[AAVFL]

He is gone at 7-5. That would mean in year 5, Jones will have lost to UF, UGA, Bama, LSU and either Vanderbilt, Kentucky or South Carolina. Unacceptable for Currie.

I agree. Thanks for your perspective. I guess it's put up or shut up time for him.

 

[eazyTD]

So your earlier post was just an opinion?

Which one?

 

[jspvol76]

Listened to Blaine Bishop on the radio this morning, and his take seemed pretty positive on the game this past weekend. He said it was obvious who the better team was this past weekend by talent and actual play. He believed that only a handful of calls and plays really made the difference in the game, and he feels the coaches all took ownership for their mistakes which he respects. He said our overall play seemed much better than in the GT game, and all the players are giving their all and never quit which is a sign of good coaching and respect for their coaches. Now, they just need the coaches and certain players to step up and make the right decisions and right plays when the time comes. Also, gushed about John Kelly, best back in the SEC right now, his enthusiasm is contagious.

 

[AAVFL]

The Florida loss this past weekend is as bad as or worse than losing to South Carolina or Vandy in my book. I can't stomach losing to a Florida team that is that bad. Watching that crap fest unfold for the 3rd time in 4 years is more than I can stomach.

That's just me though. I have an unhealthy hatred for that program.

You and me both. The only difference is they've won the east two years in a row so they have some respectability. Those other two are teams we should never lose to no matter what. If that happens it's over.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Listened to Blaine Bishop on the radio this morning, and his take seemed pretty positive on the game this past weekend. He said it was obvious who the better team was this past weekend by talent and actual play. He believed that only a handful of calls and plays really made the difference in the game, and he feels the coaches all took ownership for their mistakes which he respects. He said our overall play seemed much better than in the GT game, and all the players are giving their all and never quit which is a sign of good coaching and respect for their coaches. Now, they just need the coaches and certain players to step up and make the right decisions and right plays when the time comes. Also, gushed about John Kelly, best back in the SEC right now, his enthusiasm is contagious.

That's all fine and dandy until you remember Florida and Georgia Tech are bad football teams.

 

[LA Vol]

I was thinking about that earlier this morning. Butch is hyper-sensitive to how he is portrayed and perceived. I think that sensitivity would lead to him taking a financial hit in lieu of being humiliated (i.e. take a reduced buyout to mutually part ways instead of a very publicized firing and receipt of the full buyout).

To clarify-- I was referring to the buyout he owes UT if he leaves voluntarily. That's $2M and I think it can be negotiated if he has a deal on the table and that's a sticking point.

If he's fired, we owe him a $7.5M buyout (IIRC). I think he'll want every penny of that-- and more if he can get it-- if his contract is terminated. JMO.

 

[BigZiti09]

I was worried this would happen lol


You misunderstood what I was saying: I was saying that they didn't change the yearly amount he would be owed for his buyout.


The numbers on his buyout basically stayed the same, just with a year added. Buyouts usually have some yearly amount that coaches receive if fired. So of course adding a year to the contract technically means "the buyout got larger," but they didn't raise the yearly amount owed at all.


Usually when a coach gets a meaningful extension, the numbers of that yearly amount go up fairly significantly (500k-1 million), at least on the front end. Malzahn's stayed steady. The only numbers in his contract that changed had to do with some money getting shifted to front of his contract and subtracted from the backend. It was a contractual band-aid and a pretty weak show of commitment to Malzahn, really.


In effect the contract extension he got last year was Auburn's way of saying:

"We could afford to fire you after the 2016 season, but we'll give you this season worry free. But by December 2017 that number will be right back where it was before, so get it done."

I seriously doubt that's what the OP was talking about.

What some people are suggesting is that we add a year to his deal but the buyout total gets negotiated down.

Nobody has suggested that an extension would come with an escalated buyout. Just another year of the same.

 

[jspvol76]

That's all fine and dandy until you remember Florida and Georgia Tech are bad football teams.

:good!:

I think GT is better than UF.

 

[BigZiti09]

To clarify-- I was referring to the buyout he owes UT if he leaves voluntarily. That's $2M and I think it can be negotiated if he has a deal on the table and that's a sticking point.

If he's fired, we owe him a $7.5M buyout. I think he'll want every penny of that-- and more if he can get it-- if his contract is terminated. JMO.

Pretty sure it's $3m. $1m for each year left. 2018, 19 and 20.

 

[NMVol]

Which one?

Where you said CBJ was gone.

 

[VolGee4]

This. Let this play out, only 3 games in. JG should play and gain confidence this week. Same with QD. Then UGA will dictate how the season goes.

As to QD against UF - add back the worst drops on the receivers, including probably the game winner at the goal line by Kelly. Add in the wrong route by Palmer for the pick that cost points. QD was not playing well, but it was more than enough to win Saturday. He does need to step up in the pocket and take the hit if necessary. He's like Ainge was, a terrible thrower off the back foot. He understands what he sees in coverage for the most part and will throw it away if necessary. JG is not there yet on that.

My issue is the same. If Butch refuses to modify the scheme to the talents of the players he uses, winning and losing will always be in the question against all SEC and major OOC opponents.

I am not sure what you consider the "scheme," but I think the general scheme of the offense can work with a QB like QD. The problem is situational play-calling, and QD making the correct reads. No run on first and goal; hand off to Kelly on 3rd down when QD had 5+ yards; then, QB keeping it on zone read on 3rd and 5 when he didn't have a chance to pick it up.

The QB won't be perfect with reads, but they have to help him be successful with making better play calls at certain times. I truly believe this offense will work if QD runs 3-4 times at the right moment and then let Kelly do his thing. Some of the pass play calls were good calls.

 

[chavisut]

Listened to Blaine Bishop on the radio this morning, and his take seemed pretty positive on the game this past weekend. He said it was obvious who the better team was this past weekend by talent and actual play. He believed that only a handful of calls and plays really made the difference in the game, and he feels the coaches all took ownership for their mistakes which he respects. He said our overall play seemed much better than in the GT game, and all the players are giving their all and never quit which is a sign of good coaching and respect for their coaches. Now, they just need the coaches and certain players to step up and make the right decisions and right plays when the time comes. Also, gushed about John Kelly, best back in the SEC right now, his enthusiasm is contagious.

Need coaches to step up?