Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXIII

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#276
#276
Bassmaster_Vol said:
So, why doesn't anybody talk about the fact that Kyrie is the best player on the Cavaliers?
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#278
#278
BigZiti09 said:
Agree that Illinois can do better. I think he will take the Missouri job if he can get it.

Being a nomad doesn't hurt your reputation as much as getting fired does.
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I would definitely go to that Mizzu vs UT game if that occurred.
 
#280
#280
BigZiti09 said:
Agree that Illinois can do better. I think he will take the Missouri job if he can get it.

Being a nomad doesn't hurt your reputation as much as getting fired does.
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I dunno. I think I'd rather have a coach be able to take the heat from the fire he made than make it and then leave.
 
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#281
#281
So I have been thinking, I wonder how motivated Walt Wells is as a coach? Does he desire to be a HC one day? Guy apparently can flat out recruit and people love him. That's a huge positive for a potential HC to have. Obviously he needs to show promise as a position coach first, but if he keeps at it I think he has the potential to be a good coach in the future.
 
#282
#282
zhangliao04 said:
I dunno. I think I'd rather have a coach be able to take the heat from the fire he made than make it and then leave.
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You gonna hire Cuonzo Martin who coaches at Missouri or Cuonzo Martin who gets fired by Cal?

If he gets fired at Cal he will go back to being an assistant. He would have been fired here if he had stayed and would be an assistant now. Once you are a fired coach schools are much more likely to pass on you because your ceiling has been determined in their minds. At that point a hiring school is more likely to hire an assistant that has never been a head coach rather than a former head coach who saw limited success before he was fired by a Cal/UT type school.

Another factor at play is that Cuonzo has improved somewhat as a coach. Maybe he keeps doing it and he ends up being a good coach at some point. If he gets fired it will put a huge halt to his coaching trajectory.
 
#283
#283
BigZiti09 said:
You gonna hire Cuonzo Martin who coaches at Missouri or Cuonzo Martin who gets fired by Cal?

If he gets fired at Cal he will go back to being an assistant. He would have been fired here if he had stayed and would be an assistant now. Once you are a fired coach schools are much more likely to pass on you because your ceiling has been determined in their minds. At that point a hiring school is more likely to hire an assistant that has never been a head coach rather than a former head coach who saw limited success before he was fired by a Cal/UT type school.

Another factor at play is that Cuonzo has improved somewhat as a coach. Maybe he keeps doing it and he ends up being a good coach at some point. If he gets fired it will put a huge halt to his coaching trajectory.
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I'm not gonna hire Cuonzo Martin at all as a P5 school. You can't just look at whether the coach was fired or not. You gotta look at production. How did he do with what he had? Did he recruit to build success, continue success, or did it wane under his watch?

Right now the dude has left 2 power 5 programs in bad spots (with my extremely limited knowledge of the Cal program). As a P5 AD I will see that and say no thanks.

At least that's my take on the Cuonzo matter, anyway.
 
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#284
#284
BigZiti09 said:
You gonna hire Cuonzo Martin who coaches at Missouri or Cuonzo Martin who gets fired by Cal?

If he gets fired at Cal he will go back to being an assistant. He would have been fired here if he had stayed and would be an assistant now. Once you are a fired coach schools are much more likely to pass on you because your ceiling has been determined in their minds. At that point a hiring school is more likely to hire an assistant that has never been a head coach rather than a former head coach who saw limited success before he was fired by a Cal/UT type school.

Another factor at play is that Cuonzo has improved somewhat as a coach. Maybe he keeps doing it and he ends up being a good coach at some point. If he gets fired it will put a huge halt to his coaching trajectory.
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If you're looking at a paper resume, I'd agree but his production is public, therefore, the bouncing around is more detriminmental.

If fired, I can see you at least did everything you could at that location and had a sense of loyalty.

Leaving your second p5 school in three years leaving it void of talent shows me that you aren't loyal/I can't rely on you (my buyout offer would not be in Martin's favor) and you harm my programs future as you don't have the passion for the job that is required in p5 so I'm offering substantially less because you aren't worth the investment.

I'm also not hiring Martin because of the above. In fact, my offer would probably insult him, which I'm fine with.
 
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#287
#287
Bassmaster_Vol said:
So, why doesn't anybody talk about the fact that Kyrie is the best player on the Cavaliers?
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A very strong statistical case can be made for Lebron James being the best player in NBA history. Drill down and look at the numbers closely. If he plays long enough --- just a few more years --- he will destroy several NBA records.

I saw a quote over the summer from another player about Lebron. I tried to find it earlier but came up empty. Basically, this player said Lebron could and should be the MVP every year. If any other player in the league were to rise up with his stats, they would probably win the MVP. Everyone is so accustomed to Lebron doing it year in and year out, it's expected.

You don't have to like Lebron (I don't) but denying he's the best player in the league is foolish.
 
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#288
#288
utvols88 said:
If you're looking at a paper resume, I'd agree but his production is public, therefore, the bouncing around is more detriminmental.

If fired, I can see you at least did everything you could at that location and had a sense of loyalty.

Leaving your second p5 school in three years leaving it void of talent shows me that you aren't loyal/I can't rely on you (my buyout offer would not be in Martin's favor) and you harm my programs future as you don't have the passion for the job that is required in p5 so I'm offering substantially less because you aren't worth the investment.

I'm also not hiring Martin because of the above. In fact, my offer would probably insult him, which I'm fine with.
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Yeah, I'm not saying I'd hire him. I'm saying that if he gets fired at Cal that nobody will hire him. If he goes to a new job they are gonna look at what he did at that stop and not so much what he did at Cal or UT.

Once he is fired, he is damaged goods nobody is gonna want. That is why he restarts his clock. Same as Kevin O'Neil. Kevin O'Neil left Marquette, left Tennessee, left Northwestern for an assistant job in the NBA. He then went on to get fired from an NBA head coaching job. Then he ended up interim HC at Arizona and parlayed that into a head coaching job at USC where he finally got fired by a college program.

Now he is no longer a nomad because he is an analyst. But he wasn't going to get another head coaching job. Once you're fired by a USC type you're done.
 
#290
#290
Mike4Vols said:
A very strong statistical case can be made for Lebron James being the best player in NBA history. Drill down and look at the numbers closely. If he plays long enough --- just a few more years --- he will destroy several NBA records.

I saw a quote over the summer from another player about Lebron. I tried to find it earlier but came up empty. Basically, this player said Lebron could and should be the MVP every year. If any other player in the league were to rise up with his stats, they would probably win the MVP. Everyone is so accustomed to Lebron doing it year in and year out, it's expected.

You don't have to like Lebron (I don't) but denying he's the best player in the league is foolish.
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Lebron's a great player, he's just one dimensional. He can't shoot very well, he basically just drives the lane and he's so big and strong he's virtually unstoppable going to the basket. Also draws a lot of fouls doing this, and if he doesn't he whines about it. Lebron also isn't clutch. If the game is on the line and a final shot has to be made, it's is always Kyrie who takes that shot. Kyrie can also dribble and doesn't travel virtually every time he has the ball like Lebron does. It simply boils down to this for me, Lebron is great, but he's one dimensional. Kyrie can do it all, and I think you'd have a hard time arguing that Lebron is better than Westbrook right now since dude is avg a triple double. That's unheard of.
 
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#292
#292
BigZiti09 said:
Agree that Illinois can do better. I think he will take the Missouri job if he can get it.

Being a nomad doesn't hurt your reputation as much as getting fired does.
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I would love for him to get the Missouri job. We would be able to kick their tail at least once a year and maybe more for a few years.
 
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#295
#295
#296
#296
zhangliao04 said:
So I have been thinking, I wonder how motivated Walt Wells is as a coach? Does he desire to be a HC one day? Guy apparently can flat out recruit and people love him. That's a huge positive for a potential HC to have. Obviously he needs to show promise as a position coach first, but if he keeps at it I think he has the potential to be a good coach in the future.
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I am not sure what Wells did before he came here? My guess is that he would want to be a head coach someday. I would think that he would have to continue to develop his reputation for a few years before that becomes a potential reality. Hopefully, he will be great here for a few years and then move on to OC here or somewhere else.
 
#297
#297
AV_12 said:
Westbrook is not better than Lebron
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I think people just always say, well he's Lebron, so he's the best. It doesn't matter if people play better than him or if he isn't even trusted to shoot the game winner on his own team. He's Lebron, so he's the best. Another Lebron could come into the NBA and be doing the same things and people would still argue for Lebron, because he's Lebron. He's been so hyped his whole career that people just are content with saying he's the best. I mean a guy is doing something that no one has ever done before, averaging a triple double for a season, and people still argue that Lebron is better than him.
 
#299
#299
drvenner said:
May I ask what you're basing this opinion on? I think Irving is a great player and he hit the game winner last year, but he is not nearly as good as Lebron, I am sorry.
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Answered that already. Irving is much more well rounded, better shooter, ball handler, he's clutch, when the game is on the line his number is called and not Lebron's. Lebron is a one dimensional player. He's great, but overhyped imo.
 
#300
#300
Lebron is still the most dominant player in the NBA. He very well may be the best passer in the game and a top 5 defender as well. He will have gone to 7 straight finals after this year most likely and he'll have a great shot to get his fourth ring. He should be the MVP every season IMO. Take him off the cavs and put him on almost any other team in the east and they're going to the finals.
 
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