Recruiting Football Talk VIII

Status
Not open for further replies.
#123,761
#123,761
Adam Sandler said:
I’ve had you on ignore for a while but this was so laughable I had to challenge it. He’s already one of the best there’s ever been. Maybe there’s some debate on how his total career stats shake out, based on possible injury or on how long Andy Reid coaches and what Mahomes situation looks like after him, but cmon, odds look in his favor at this point. When he does move on from Reid/chiefs he will attract a winning organization just like Brady and manning did. He’s already bypassed Brady and Peyton at the same respective points in their careers and it’s not close. Brady also had arguably the best defense in the league for his first 3 SBs, and the greatest post season kicker of all time, but we’re not holding that against him in this conversation are we? You say until he wins a SB with 2 different teams, but Montana didn’t, and yet you reference him in the previous sentence.

First 7 Year Starting Comparison

Tom Brady
Reg Season:
26364 yards
197 passing touchdowns
63.0 completion percentage
86 interceptions
4 Pro Bowls
1 MVP
Post season inclusive stats:
100 total wins
14 Playoff wins
3 Super bowls
2 Super Bowl MVPs

Peyton Manning
Reg season:
29442 yards
216 passing touchdowns
63.5 completion percentage
120 interceptions
5 Pro bowls
2 MVPs
Post season inclusive stats:
66 wins
0 Playoff wins
0 Super bowls

Patrick Mahomes
Reg season:
32068 passing yards
245 passing touchdowns
66.6 completion percentage
73 interceptions
6 (maybe 7?) Pro bowls
2 MVPs
Post season inclusive stats:
105 total wins
17 (maybe 18?) Playoff wins
3 (maybe 4?) Super bowls
3 (maybe 4?) Super Bowl MVPs

Again, cmon man. Andy Reid, who did not win a Super Bowl before Mahomes, may very well coach a few more years with how good he’s got it going. Mahomes is on track to be the greatest of all time, and having the bill belichick of offense as his head coach doesn’t detract from that. You have to have an elite coach to win Super BowlS. We don’t take away from Brady for that. Or Montana. Or Aikman. Or Marino. Or Bradshaw. Etc. If Peyton had a competent defense for half his career, he may well have won more too.

Mahomes is the elite of the elite. Thus why current MVPs continually fall short at his hand.
Click to expand...

Is Mahomes even better than Allen? Yes he's had more postseason success. But has he played substantially better than Allen or has he simply had better luck?

We've all watched Allen and Mahomes battle to a draw individually for the last 3 playoff matchups only for one play (usually made by someone else) deciding the outcome. Yesterday it was Kincaid dropping a pass on 4th down. Last year it was the Bills kicker missing a last second field goal. In the 2022 Divisional Round it was 13 seconds left on the clock.

This is why I'm against using team success to judge individual players. Mahomes is simply the luckiest QB in history thus far. He's not the best. I would rate both Josh Allen and Aaron Rodgers ahead of him based on talent. Those are the two best QBs I've seen since I started watching football in 1998.
 
#123,762
#123,762
PlanetVolunteer said:
Watching NC St and Duke

Good game

NC St is just 9-10 after making the final four last year.

Lol, I bet they have fans that are like "sure we made the final four last year, but THAT WAS A FLASH IN THE PAN FIRE KEVIN KEATTS"
Click to expand...
I mean, they only made the tournament last year because they won the ACC tournament. They were like 9th or 10th in the ACC and were HOPING for an NIT bid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Enki_Amenra, knoxvol52, DarthVol1 and 1 other person
#123,766
#123,766
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Is Mahomes even better than Allen? Yes he's had more postseason success. But has he played substantially better than Allen or has he simply had better luck?

We've all watched Allen and Mahomes battle to a draw individually for the last 3 playoff matchups only for one play (usually made by someone else) deciding the outcome. Yesterday it was Kincaid dropping a pass on 4th down. Last year it was the Bills kicker missing a last second field goal. In the 2022 Divisional Round it was 13 seconds left on the clock.

This is why I'm against using team success to judge individual players. Mahomes is simply the luckiest QB in history thus far. He's not the best. I would rate both Josh Allen and Aaron Rodgers ahead of him based on talent. Those are the two best QBs I've seen since I started watching football in 1998.
Click to expand...
Luckiest QB in history is what I call Tom Brady because he doesn’t win half the Super Bowls he did without cheating, the best coach and playoff kicker in NFL history, and some bad calls to boot. In reality, that might be true, but the reason I truly say that is simply because I don’t like the guy. He still has multiple super bowls with different teams without his first 3, and additional Super Bowl appearances where he came up just short. That’s a lot of super bowls to be in just by being lucky. And quite honestly, though I make the argument all the time that Peyton Manning was the better qb and Tom Brady just that much more lucky, he still has more super bowls than Peyton has if you take away 3. And not like there weren’t plenty of opportunities for that script to have been different, often times in a head to head matchup, and also not.

Even as the best, you need a bit of luck to go your way. But the more often luck happens for you, the less likely it was pure chance and the more likely it was a biproduct of putting yourself in the position to even be able to get lucky, over and over again. The best do that. They have the best coaching, make the least mistakes, and make plays and create opportunities for others to make plays over and over again, especially when it matters most. Btw, not saying Josh Allen hasn’t done that.

Additionally, one play doesn’t decide a game. I could easily pull up the film tape from those games, find a drive where they didn’t get a first down close to field goal range and say “SEE! If they had just made this first down they likely would have scored and won the game!” Would that be any less true than “See! If they made this field goal they would have won the game.” Reality is that there’s an insane amount of preparation that’s put into these games and the outcomes are a biproduct of that and an accumulation of plays that needed to be made over the course of the game in order to win the game, and subsequently win enough games to win the big game.

Maybe Josh Allen’s athletic measurables at the combine are more impressive than Mahomes. Maybe he’s the better athlete, but not the better qb. Or maybe he’s both? Maybe his individual total and average career stats end up being more impressive than Mahomes. Maybe Josh Allen will end up having more super bowls than Mahomes. Or maybe he ends up with worse statistics. Maybe, he ends up with no super bowls. Or anywhere in between. Let’s not talk in maybes. He doesn’t maybe have the most yards thrown for or touchdown passes or Super Bowl rings so on and so on. There’s nothing his team hasn’t had that he needed to be able to win the big one. He’s got all the tools within himself and on his team and on his coaching staff. His team didn’t lose because kinkaid dropped a prayer on 4th down on a potential game tying/winning drive. His team lost because both he and his team didn’t do enough to win the game outright. At some point, you have to not call it luck and call it like it is. Two tremendous QBs. But only one of them is on pace to, currently, be remembered as one of, if not the greatest qb of all time.

Josh said it himself in his post game presser. You want to be the best, you have to beat the best, when it matters most.

IMG_1437.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: JoeyVols32, ugg and knoxvol52
#123,773
#123,773
Adam Sandler said:
Luckiest QB in history is what I call Tom Brady because he doesn’t win half the Super Bowls he did without cheating, the best coach and playoff kicker in NFL history, and some bad calls to boot. In reality, that might be true, but the reason I truly say that is simply because I don’t like the guy. He still has multiple super bowls with different teams without his first 3, and additional Super Bowl appearances where he came up just short. That’s a lot of super bowls to be in just by being lucky. And quite honestly, though I make the argument all the time that Peyton Manning was the better qb and Tom Brady just that much more lucky, he still has more super bowls than Peyton has if you take away 3. And not like there weren’t plenty of opportunities for that script to have been different, often times in a head to head matchup, and also not.

Even as the best, you need a bit of luck to go your way. But the more often luck happens for you, the less likely it was pure chance and the more likely it was a biproduct of putting yourself in the position to even be able to get lucky, over and over again. The best do that. They have the best coaching, make the least mistakes, and make plays and create opportunities for others to make plays over and over again, especially when it matters most. Btw, not saying Josh Allen hasn’t done that.

Additionally, one play doesn’t decide a game. I could easily pull up the film tape from those games, find a drive where they didn’t get a first down close to field goal range and say “SEE! If they had just made this first down they likely would have scored and won the game!” Would that be any less true than “See! If they made this field goal they would have won the game.” Reality is that there’s an insane amount of preparation that’s put into these games and the outcomes are a biproduct of that and an accumulation of plays that needed to be made over the course of the game in order to win the game, and subsequently win enough games to win the big game.

Maybe Josh Allen’s athletic measurables at the combine are more impressive than Mahomes. Maybe he’s the better athlete, but not the better qb. Or maybe he’s both? Maybe his individual total and average career stats end up being more impressive than Mahomes. Maybe Josh Allen will end up having more super bowls than Mahomes. Or maybe he ends up with worse statistics. Maybe, he ends up with no super bowls. Or anywhere in between. Let’s not talk in maybes. He doesn’t maybe have the most yards thrown for or touchdown passes or Super Bowl rings so on and so on. There’s nothing his team hasn’t had that he needed to be able to win the big one. He’s got all the tools within himself and on his team and on his coaching staff. His team didn’t lose because kinkaid dropped a prayer on 4th down on a potential game tying/winning drive. His team lost because both he and his team didn’t do enough to win the game outright. At some point, you have to not call it luck and call it like it is. Two tremendous QBs. But only one of them is on pace to, currently, be remembered as one of, if not the greatest qb of all time.

Josh said it himself in his post game presser. You want to be the best, you have to beat the best, when it matters most.

View attachment 717911
Click to expand...

You can post all the stats you want. We've all watched the games. And watching the game is always superior to looking at the box score. Nobody whose seen these last 3 playoff matchups is gonns say Mahomes is better than Allen by any discernable margin.

Watch the first few minutes of this clip where Emmanuel Acho talks about the difference between Allen and Mahomes:



Mahomes simply has it easier than Allen. He isn't beating him everytime in the playoffs because he's better. He winning because the coaching and talent around him gives him favorable looks compared to Allen.

If we switched the QBs and put Allen on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Bills the results would stay the same. Allen would be the guy with the 3 Super Bowl rings while Mahomes would be ringless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and PKT_VOL
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.

VN Store



Back
Top