Recruiting / Culture philosophy

[C-town Vol]

1. The group we all fell in love with (Grant, Admiral, etc) were 3* guys ranked 200+.

2. The group we have coming in are 5* / top 100 guys.

3. It’s very fun seeing Tennessee in the Top 5 in hoops recruiting, but I wonder if we might inadvertently jump right over our sweet spot. I’ll explain...

4. Watching Barnes and staff develop that beloved group, and even watching the individual development this year of Fulky / Pons, it’s clear Barnes is an elite developer of talent.

5. Not to mention, it was so much fun watching it happen...watching the evolution.

6. I always thought the sweet spot for Barnes would be when he started recruiting the guys ranked 25-100, and had the opportunity to develop them 3-4 years. Somewhat of a Villanova approach when they had their run.

7. By skipping that step (because we are in on several 5* guys for 2021), are we setting ourselves up for less development (Barnes’ strength) and quicker roster turnover?

8. I’m not mad about getting these higher level guys, but if these guys turn into 1-and-done types...I think it will diminish the fan experience, and create holes tough to fill because these guys slow down the development of the lower ranked, less naturally talented players.

Thoughts?

 

[LeannaVol]

1. The group we all fell in love with (Grant, Admiral, etc) were 3* guys ranked 200+.

2. The group we have coming in are 5* / top 100 guys.

3. It’s very fun seeing Tennessee in the Top 5 in hoops recruiting, but I wonder if we might inadvertently jump right over our sweet spot. I’ll explain...

4. Watching Barnes and staff develop that beloved group, and even watching the individual development this year of Fulky / Pons, it’s clear Barnes is an elite developer of talent.

5. Not to mention, it was so much fun watching it happen...watching the evolution.

6. I always thought the sweet spot for Barnes would be when he started recruiting the guys ranked 25-100, and had the opportunity to develop them 3-4 years. Somewhat of a Villanova approach when they had their run.

7. By skipping that step (because we are in on several 5* guys for 2021), are we setting ourselves up for less development (Barnes’ strength) and quicker roster turnover?

8. I’m not mad about getting these higher level guys, but if these guys turn into 1-and-done types...I think it will diminish the fan experience, and create holes tough to fill because these guys slow down the development of the lower ranked, less naturally talented players.

Thoughts?

I tend to agree with you. Occasionally bringing in a one and done works fine but I don’t want to be a Kentucky. I wonder if Barnes knows he is only going to be around a few more years and wants another shot at a national championship before he goes and is therefore hoping to get this couple of elite recruits to put him over the top.

 

[cncchris33]

It's a fair point to question, and one that seemed to possibly lead to issues at Texas. Hopefully, we continue to create a blend of top-tier talent and developmental guys. I don't think team success with a program full of either/or is sustainable.

 

[C-town Vol]

It's a fair point to question, and one that seemed to possibly lead to issues at Texas. Hopefully, we continue to create a blend of top-tier talent and developmental guys. I don't think team success with a program full of either/or is sustainable.

Agreed... which is why I tend to believe his sweet spot would be the guy ranked 25-100

 

[LeannaVol]

Agreed... which is why I tend to believe his sweet spot would be the guy ranked 25-100

With the graduate trasfer rule and no sitting out for any transfers I think we will see a lot more movement of players. Guys like Jalen Johnson will transfer down and guys from smaller schools producing over their high school ranking will look to move up. It will make for fewer Cinderella’s from smaller conferences in the future imo.

 

[C-town Vol]

With the graduate trasfer rule and no sitting out for any transfers I think we will see a lot more movement of players. Guys like Jalen Johnson will transfer down and guys from smaller schools producing over their high school ranking will look to move up. It will make for fewer Cinderella’s from smaller conferences in the future imo.

That’s an interesting perspective. This would probably be especially true for low-major programs. I still think this is a prime era for the Mid-Major. Look at this last season. If the tournament would have happened, I would have taken Dayton, SanDiego St, Creighton, Seton Hall, and Gonzaga and you could have the field.

I think guys at the mid-major level are more apt to stay, because there are plenty of high level NBA players from those conferences.

 

[TennaciousD957]

While I agree that at UT the best scenario is a team with 3-4 year guys and some 5 stars mixed in...isnt that exactly what he have for next year and the following?

Next years roster will have 3 5 stars surrounded by 10 3-4 star developmental guys. After that we will lose at least one of the 5 stars, Springer IMO. Maybe even JJJ develops and goes. Either way, you bring in 2-3 more high ranked dudes like Chandler and Banchero. You are still at that 25%ish level of elite bluechip and 75% developmental. I would he is right on the money right now

 

[Hacksaw]

I imagine even 5-star players can benefit from some college-level development by a coach with Barnes' track record. Their starting point might be higher, but their potential might also be.

 

[berryvol]

Fair questions. However, 3 stars with talent like Grant and Admiral aren’t growing on trees. Expecting to develop a 3 star to that level each season is highly unreasonable. I think we need a healthy mix of talent levels for us to sustain this success, but it’s gonna be hard to take it to the next level without a few elite level guys jumping on board each year.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

That’s an interesting perspective. This would probably be especially true for low-major programs. I still think this is a prime era for the Mid-Major. Look at this last season. If the tournament would have happened, I would have taken Dayton, SanDiego St, Creighton, Seton Hall, and Gonzaga and you could have the field.

I think guys at the mid-major level are more apt to stay, because there are plenty of high level NBA players from those conferences.

I don't really consider many of the Big East members or Gonzaga to be mid-majors anymore. There were 4 from the Big East in the final AP top 25 last season.

 

[The Dog]

I don't really consider many of the Big East members or Gonzaga to be mid-majors anymore. There were 4 from the Big East in the final AP top 25 last season.

Agree. San Diego St. and Dayton are mid-majors, but they both have had a lot success. San Diego St. for a decade since Steve Fischer and K. Leonard. Dayton has always been pretty good for as long as I can remember and Archie Miller had them in the Elite 8, like 5 years ago.

 

[C-town Vol]

While I agree that at UT the best scenario is a team with 3-4 year guys and some 5 stars mixed in...isnt that exactly what he have for next year and the following?

Next years roster will have 3 5 stars surrounded by 10 3-4 star developmental guys. After that we will lose at least one of the 5 stars, Springer IMO. Maybe even JJJ develops and goes. Either way, you bring in 2-3 more high ranked dudes like Chandler and Banchero. You are still at that 25%ish level of elite bluechip and 75% developmental. I would he is right on the money right now

I think next year is ideal. I was thinking more in terms of long-term philosophy. We are able to have that great balance next year because we have been more of a developmental roster. Now we are adding elite guys to that foundation.

Multiple “elite guys” classes and the roster / culture would inevitably shift. Again, I’m not complaining. This is fun. Just different than what I anticipated.

 

[C-town Vol]

Fair questions. However, 3 stars with talent like Grant and Admiral aren’t growing on trees. Expecting to develop a 3 star to that level each season is highly unreasonable. I think we need a healthy mix of talent levels for us to sustain this success, but it’s gonna be hard to take it to the next level without a few elite level guys jumping on board each year.

Agree completely. Grant was a 4*/5* talent who just lacked ideal measurables for his position.

I am definitely not an advocate for trying to duplicate the success we had with that crop of 3* players.

Which is why I was more in the thinking that we would start building classes with guys ranked 25-100. Higher ceiling. Better positional measurables. Just not necessarily automatic NBA 1st rounders.

 

[C-town Vol]

I don't really consider many of the Big East members or Gonzaga to be mid-majors anymore. There were 4 from the Big East in the final AP top 25 last season.

Fair point. The lines have definitely been blurred some, I think in part, because of the blue bloods embracing and processing the one-and-dones

 

[sport3500]

Durant was the only one and done player that CRB had at Texas.

Augustin, Aldridge and Thompson stayed longer.

 

[JelloPuddinPup]

Durant was the only one and done player that CRB had at Texas.

Augustin, Aldridge and Thompson stayed longer.

So many people forget this.

 

[The Dog]

Mo Bamba was one and done, but I'm not sure if Barnes was still there

Edit: apparently not, Smart was the coach

 

[berryvol]

Agree completely. Grant was a 4*/5* talent who just lacked ideal measurables for his position.

I am definitely not an advocate for trying to duplicate the success we had with that crop of 3* players.

Which is why I was more in the thinking that we would start building classes with guys ranked 25-100. Higher ceiling. Better positional measurables. Just not necessarily automatic NBA 1st rounders.

Agree and totally understand. I do think one thing that’s different about this year is how deep the draft class is. Springer and Keon are phenomenal talents, but they’re not necessarily shoo-in first rounders. If they are mock drafted high enough to leave, they’ve had great seasons here and we’ll be in a good spot in the tourney. Now some of the 21 guys we’re after, those are no doubt top 10 draft guys haha

 

[therickbol]

Good points. But simply using rankings is making it simpler than it really is. Not every player ranked Top 25 is a good bet to be 1-N Done. I think the most impressive thing with recruiting right now is the TYPE of highly ranked players we are just signed. Guys that fit Barnes recruiting profile AND are highly ranked. If we sign some of those guys next class I think they are much more likely to be 1-N-Done.

 

[Jack Burton]

Might not have to worry about it in the long run. The G-League may start taking the top 20-30 guys each year leaving the sweet spot guys for Barnes. We’ll have to see what happens with this first group of guys who are making six figures just to go to the G-league.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

1. The group we all fell in love with (Grant, Admiral, etc) were 3* guys ranked 200+.

2. The group we have coming in are 5* / top 100 guys.

3. It’s very fun seeing Tennessee in the Top 5 in hoops recruiting, but I wonder if we might inadvertently jump right over our sweet spot. I’ll explain...

4. Watching Barnes and staff develop that beloved group, and even watching the individual development this year of Fulky

1. The group we all fell in love with (Grant, Admiral, etc) were 3* guys ranked 200+.

2. The group we have coming in are 5* / top 100 guys.

3. It’s very fun seeing Tennessee in the Top 5 in hoops recruiting, but I wonder if we might inadvertently jump right over our sweet spot. I’ll explain...

4. Watching Barnes and staff develop that beloved group, and even watching the individual development this year of Fulky / Pons, it’s clear Barnes is an elite developer of talent.

5. Not to mention, it was so much fun watching it happen...watching the evolution.

6. I always thought the sweet spot for Barnes would be when he started recruiting the guys ranked 25-100, and had the opportunity to develop them 3-4 years. Somewhat of a Villanova approach when they had their run.

7. By skipping that step (because we are in on several 5* guys for 2021), are we setting ourselves up for less development (Barnes’ strength) and quicker roster turnover?

8. I’m not mad about getting these higher level guys, but if these guys turn into 1-and-done types...I think it will diminish the fan experience, and create holes tough to fill because these guys slow down the development of the lower ranked, less naturally talented players.

Thoughts?

No one knows for sure but clearly CRB recognizes the same potential issue from his time at TX hence his comments when he first arrived at UT about "one and dones". As far as fan experience goes, I think many would say our experience has been better overall because we are recruiting at a much higher level and optimism over the future has not been this high in a long, long time.

 

[C-town Vol]

Good points. But simply using rankings is making it simpler than it really is. Not every player ranked Top 25 is a good bet to be 1-N Done. I think the most impressive thing with recruiting right now is the TYPE of highly ranked players we are just signed. Guys that fit Barnes recruiting profile AND are highly ranked. If we sign some of those guys next class I think they are much more likely to be 1-N-Done.

I do think these guys could stay multiple year. And I like what we are hearing about their mental make-up. Again, I’m not upset about being top 5 in recruiting . I think I’m just a little taken off guard by how we went from trying to develop a bunch of 3* to Top 5 in one class

 

[Roustabout]

1. The group we all fell in love with (Grant, Admiral, etc) were 3* guys ranked 200+.

2. The group we have coming in are 5* / top 100 guys.

3. It’s very fun seeing Tennessee in the Top 5 in hoops recruiting, but I wonder if we might inadvertently jump right over our sweet spot. I’ll explain...

4. Watching Barnes and staff develop that beloved group, and even watching the individual development this year of Fulky / Pons, it’s clear Barnes is an elite developer of talent.

5. Not to mention, it was so much fun watching it happen...watching the evolution.

6. I always thought the sweet spot for Barnes would be when he started recruiting the guys ranked 25-100, and had the opportunity to develop them 3-4 years. Somewhat of a Villanova approach when they had their run.

7. By skipping that step (because we are in on several 5* guys for 2021), are we setting ourselves up for less development (Barnes’ strength) and quicker roster turnover?

8. I’m not mad about getting these higher level guys, but if these guys turn into 1-and-done types...I think it will diminish the fan experience, and create holes tough to fill because these guys slow down the development of the lower ranked, less naturally talented players.

Thoughts?

 

[C-town Vol]

View attachment 278449

Good commentary

 

[cncchris33]

Roust is the crown jewel of our fun little forum. Known by many, liked by few.