Reasonable Expectations for Tennessee Football

#26
#26
WhatInVolnation said:
There have been a number of talking heads discussing the outlandish expectations of fan bases and administrations at many P5 programs. I think this is probably true and made all the worse by the historic runs that Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma are on right now. Other programs are blinded by jealousy--UT included--of these historic runs and many people seem to think those outcomes should be duplicated by their team. I also think the four team playoff has made this all the worse as it involves repeat players each year and has devalued the other bowls and so it is harder to convince a recruit that the Sugar Bowl, or whatever, was a good outcome for your program if you're outside of the playoff.

This got me thinking about reasonable expectations for Tennessee football. I do not think it reasonable to demand an Alabama or Clemson type run, although I would love to go on one.

Here are my expectations (reasonable or not) over the course of a decade:

1. UT is never referred to as a trap game for any team. In an up or down year, UT is capable of winning each game or at least presenting a challenge even if the other team plays well.

2. UT loses no more than one game a year by 10+ and only once a decade by 20+. In other words, game in and out, UT is competitive but recognizing that nearly every team loses at times by 10+.

3. UT has a losing streak of no more than four in a row to any team.

4. UT averages a 9-3 regular season record. The worst record is no worse than 6-6 in a down year and you hope there's at least one magical run of 15-0 or better.

5. UT fields a team capable of winning, but not necessarily winning, the SEC 3-4 times.

6. UT wins the SEC East 2-3 times.

7. UT wins the SEC 1-2 times.

8. UT makes the playoff 1-2 times.

9. UT averages a top 10 recruiting class.
Click to expand...


The simple fact of the matter is you make the right coaching hire and you dont have these conversations. Alabama went through this process and figured it out early.
 
#28
#28
VolFan4Life87 said:
There's evidence at minimum that the people calling the shots are inept. Since the departure of Phil Fulmer, we've hired 4 head coaches - only one of which had significant experience has a head coach in college football with a winning record.
Click to expand...
Yes, inept is a good word. I think it fits. Much better than "don't care." They care, they just can't pick a great new head coach to save their own lives.
 
#29
#29
VFL-82-JP said:
We hear this from time to time. "University leadership don't care about championships. Comfortable with mediocrity as long as the $$ flows."

But I've never seen a single bit of proof that's true. That they don't care. In fact, all available evidence, and sheer logic, say the opposite.

Sure, there's plenty of evidence of outcomes. We've stunk it up most of the past 12 years (12, not 15 -- most of us would be thrilled with a 2006 or 2007 season, right about now. The bottom fell out in 2008). But none of that goes to intent.

So I'm not buying it. I think our leaders would love deeply for our football program to be great, just as they want our academic reputation to be outstanding. But we all know wanting something and finding it, securing it, those are different things. They just haven't done the latter lately. Not since Phillip Fulmer's departure. It's not a lack of desire; it's a lack of skill-- at picking talented, champion-caliber coaches.

That's how it seems to me.
Click to expand...
Ok, so what is this evidence you speak of? Yes I’m sure the school wants to win Championships, hell everybody does, but what has Tennessee shown to make you say they are committed to excellence? I’m talking about in Football, btw.
 
#30
#30
MWAVolfan said:
The simple fact of the matter is you make the right coaching hire and you dont have these conversations. Alabama went through this process and figured it out early.
Click to expand...
No, MWA, they didn't. Didn't figure it out "early." Unless you define early as a multi-decade process.

Bear Bryant retired in 1982. Bama immediately started looking for a new Bear.

It wasn't until they found Saban in 2007 (or, rather, outbid LSU for his services) that they finally "figured it out." 24 years of looking to find the right guy.

And don't spout any BS about Bill Curry, Gene Stallings, or Mike DuBose being the right guy. Bama was looking for "great," not "decent." Just as we are now.

I'm really hoping we don't take 24 years to find our new permanent keep coach. We're only halfway through that period of time. I don't want to live through another 12 years of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vol1981
#31
#31
Beat the teams you’re “supposed to” and split the rest.

Bad year, you lose all those games to the others.

Great year, you beat all of those others
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orange12
#32
#32
Volsfaninva917 said:
A small % of this fan base believes a trip to the Liberty Bowl every 3rd year is success
Click to expand...

If they win it. It might not be the bowl trip on the top of anyone's list, but IMO, it is one of the best looking trophies of any of the bowls.
 
#33
#33
VolFan4Life87 said:
There's evidence at minimum that the people calling the shots are inept. Since the departure of Phil Fulmer, we've hired 4 head coaches - only one of which had significant experience has a head coach in college football with a winning record.
Click to expand...

Which one?
 
#36
#36
Volsfaninva917 said:
A small % of this fan base believes a trip to the Liberty Bowl every 3rd year is success
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, those are probably the ones that didn’t experience the 90’s / early 2000’s where UT wasn’t just competitive, didn’t just win, but were dominant and in some cases feared. The fans that experienced those days are the ones that see what IS possible based on what DID happen. I don’t blame the minority for being happy with the Liberty Bowl every 3rd year. To them it’s a major accomplishment because it’s all they’ve known. But my friends, had they experienced the wonder years, the way I did ....,they’d be severely disappointed with with anything less than a top 5 finish regularly. Cause there was a time when being ranked outside the top 15 made us all ring our hands
 
#37
#37
VFL-82-JP said:
We hear this from time to time. "University leadership don't care about championships. Comfortable with mediocrity as long as the $$ flows."

But I've never seen a single bit of proof that's true. That they don't care. In fact, all available evidence, and sheer logic, say the opposite.

Sure, there's plenty of evidence of outcomes. We've stunk it up most of the past 12 years (12, not 15 -- most of us would be thrilled with a 2006 or 2007 season, right about now. The bottom fell out in 2008). But none of that goes to intent.

So I'm not buying it. I think our leaders would love deeply for our football program to be great, just as they want our academic reputation to be outstanding. But we all know wanting something and finding it, securing it, those are different things. They just haven't done the latter lately. Not since Phillip Fulmer's departure. It's not a lack of desire; it's a lack of skill-- at picking talented, champion-caliber coaches.

That's how it seems to me.
Click to expand...

I feel much started getting screwed up when they decided other students besides athletes should live in the athletic dorms. We were better off when only athletes lived in Gibbs Hall. If someone remembers when that change was made, chime in.
 
#39
#39
Dont think we will ever be a relevant power in the SEC again. We are at a demographic advantage against our 2 biggest rivals in the East, UGA and UF. Not only do they have more people but more importantly they have more African-Americans. You wonder why the SEC dominates college football, check out the demographics of the south.

Our biggest rivals in the West; Auburn, LSU and Alabama are in the 2 dumbest and most corrupt states in the country. They will do anything to win in football. If I have to live in shitholes like Alabama or Louisiana to win natties i will gladly pass.

Our only hope is to get a once in a generation QB to lead us out of the morass we are in. Possibly the QB from Martin. JMHO
 
#40
#40
VFL-82-JP said:
That's a little high. That's pretty much the equivalent of saying we should be in the SEC championship game every year.

Only 12 teams get to the NY6 bowls. Normally, that comes out, more or less, as: 2 or 3 from SEC, 2 or 3 from B10, 1 from ACC, 1 or 2 from PAC, and 1 or 2 from B12, plus Notre Dame and one from the Group of 5.

So if it's 2 or 3 from the SEC, that's pretty much the two teams who made it to the SEC championship game, plus sometimes (not always) another team who just missed out.

So you're saying we should be in Atlanta every year, more or less.

I think that's a little bit too much to expect from anyone short of General Neyland. And there aren't too many of him running around.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s too much to be a top 12 team year in and year out. Do you happen to be a UT administrator?
 
#41
#41
VolFan4Life87 said:
Butch Jones was 50-27 with 6 years experience as a head coach when hired here at UT.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct. And I remember the day he got here, and how promising he sounded in the introductory press conference. In retrospect, I give congratulations to whoever wrote that speech, whether it be Butch, or Dave Hart or some member of the staff, because he sounded super competent and promising.

Then, he developed a fascination with one word: Individuals. Once, I think he used it three times in a single sentence. And I feel that, even more than the losses, led to impatience from the fan base. He might have been a reasonably competent coach, but even when it seemed he was recruiting well, it made Dooley's WW2 and shower discipline comment seem a little less irritating.
 
#43
#43
VFL-82-JP said:
No, MWA, they didn't. Didn't figure it out "early." Unless you define early as a multi-decade process.

Bear Bryant retired in 1982. Bama immediately started looking for a new Bear.

It wasn't until they found Saban in 2007 (or, rather, outbid LSU for his services) that they finally "figured it out." 24 years of looking to find the right guy.

And don't spout any BS about Bill Curry, Gene Stallings, or Mike DuBose being the right guy. Bama was looking for "great," not "decent." Just as we are now.

I'm really hoping we don't take 24 years to find our new permanent keep coach. We're only halfway through that period of time. I don't want to live through another 12 years of this.
Click to expand...

I would take the "BS" Stallings was dealing in a heartbeat right now. NCAA sanctions sting but it would be fun while it lasted.

70-16 record before sanctions and Steve Spurrier in his prime kept them from winning multiple SEC titles and a second National title.
 
#44
#44
VFL-82-JP said:
No, MWA, they didn't. Didn't figure it out "early." Unless you define early as a multi-decade process.

Bear Bryant retired in 1982. Bama immediately started looking for a new Bear.

It wasn't until they found Saban in 2007 (or, rather, outbid LSU for his services) that they finally "figured it out." 24 years of looking to find the right guy.

And don't spout any BS about Bill Curry, Gene Stallings, or Mike DuBose being the right guy. Bama was looking for "great," not "decent." Just as we are now.

I'm really hoping we don't take 24 years to find our new permanent keep coach. We're only halfway through that period of time. I don't want to live through another 12 years of this.
Click to expand...
Nothing about the last few coaching searches has me convinced we're looking for competent, much less great or decent.
 
#45
#45
UT Football as we knew it is dead. The sooner everyone gets over that the sooner we can start to build a program again. Lose the expectations, this is a build not a rebuild.

Tennessee Football is closer to Vanderbilt than it is Alabama. Not historically, certainly, but currently it's true. This isn't any other decade, this is 2020 and we are moving into yet another decade as a sunken program.

No one is coming in here and doing all of those things that OP wants within a 2-3 year timeframe. Either our leadership, admin, and boosters get on the same page and supercharge the program - which we have all come to find is simply not going to happen. Or we accept that we have to find and celebrate small victories on the way to a successful program.

Hopefully by the end of the decade we are a program we can take pride in. We have a long way to go.
 
#46
#46
I will say this - I hope that we cheat our butt off if given the opportunity again. This program has essentially been in 10+ years of probation since Kiffin left. The NCAA could have never done that to us. I hope we are as blatant as Freeze was at Ole Miss. It took a petty feud to oust him, not even the NCAA could get him. Cheat like crazy boys, screw it.
 
#47
#47
sjt18 said:
UT has the resources and facilities and fan support to compete with anyone. The standard... should be that UT competes with everyone and wins their fair share or more.

The lowballing so many are into now is how you end up turning UT into Arkansas.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? We would love to be where Arkansas is now: A stable coaching staff, an excellent HC people respect and players love, Two excellent coordinators, a compentent group of assistants, and a HC who gets out of the way and lets them coach. We could only hope right now that we could turn into Arkansas. They have a bright future and their recruiting will pick up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OriginalCoach and HollowaytoSeivers
#48
#48
bluetick10 said:
What are you talking about? We would love to be where Arkansas is now: A stable coaching staff, an excellent HC people respect and players love, Two excellent coordinators, a compentent group of assistants, and a HC who gets out of the way and lets them coach. We could only hope right now that we could turn into Arkansas. They have a bright future and their recruiting will pick up.
Click to expand...
You are aware that this is that staff's first year and that they've been more unstable than UT for much longer... right?
 
#50
#50
VFL-82-JP said:
That's a little high. That's pretty much the equivalent of saying we should be in the SEC championship game every year.

Only 12 teams get to the NY6 bowls. Normally, that comes out, more or less, as: 2 or 3 from SEC, 2 or 3 from B10, 1 from ACC, 1 or 2 from PAC, and 1 or 2 from B12, plus Notre Dame and one from the Group of 5.

So if it's 2 or 3 from the SEC, that's pretty much the two teams who made it to the SEC championship game, plus sometimes (not always) another team who just missed out.

So you're saying we should be in Atlanta every year, more or less.

I think that's a little bit too much to expect from anyone short of General Neyland. And there aren't too many of him running around.
Click to expand...

The SEC Champion is always going to the CFP and the runner up/next best team will some years too. In 2018/19 Florida, Georgia, LSU, were all in NY6 bowls with Alabama in the CFP. 3 is the most common number that makes it. I won't say we should get there every year but we should be in contention every year.

With our schedule, most years the very floor should be 7-8 wins. We are always going to play at least 3 easy non-conference games and we should dominate Kentucky, Vandy, South Carolina and Missouri. We should also win most games against the bottom 3 SEC west teams and be no worse than 50/50 vs the rest of the league over a long period of time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orange12
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top