Really? Did some of you expect.......

#26
#26
sjt18 said:
Poison the well much? No. There were knowledgeable people and lots of them that said this team should make a bowl game. MANY pointed out that Jones' teams typically get better in year 2.

It wasn't that they lost. It was actually what you point to. UT is getting plays and effort from its players that are good enough to win games... and they're not winning them. Some of that is roster deficiencies... but some is coaching shortcomings and decisions.

Well, can you point to someone saying Jones should be fired now? I see a few saying Bajakian should be fired but some of us supposed "negavols" have pointed out that this is Jones' system and Jake is his guy... You can't blame one without the other.

That's the first step. It isn't the only step. Coaches still have to coach. Jones is EXCELLENT in player development. He's good at team discipline. He seems to be good at game week prep.

The missing piece so far is demonstrating that he's a top notch game day coach. He hasn't shown that yet.

As far as settling in, I'll ask you. Look at any program you think is "successful" right now having put together a program that is competing and winning at a high level for at least 2 or 3 years. Then look back through their coaches previous to the one that turned it around and find any school that avg's more than 3.5 years per coach.

In this era of CFB, you cannot afford to give a coach indefinite time if they aren't making at least some improvement in W/L's. Continuing to lose like your predecessor who was fired is a momentum killer. It hurts recruiting. It hurts everything.

You may not like it. But Jones needs meaningful wins... and not just next year or sometime in the future. He needs them NOW. Frankly... his reaction to some things suggests that he knows that too.

That's the thing. UT doesn't need a "meets expectations" coach. UT needs an "exceeds expectations" coach. It isn't whether more losing is easy for me or other fans to take... it is what that losing does to the prospects of seeing a turn around any time soon. If you want to "build back up" one of the things that MUST change MUCH sooner rather than later is the perception that the program has "lost for several years now" and is several years from not losing. It is important to fans, boosters, and players... but is it critical to continued recruiting success.

The promises and dreams that Jones has done a magnificent job of selling to this point... become less marketable with each loss.


Yes they will. But I would ask you to step back and remember who you are a fan of... is it Jones or any particular coach or is it UT? A coach must EARN that trust and allegiance in Jones' vernacular. It should NEVER be just given. It is VERY easy for fans to betray their loyalty to the program by giving too much loyalty to the "wrong" coach.

It is Jones' job to prove he's "Mr Right" for UT football... and that ONLY through winning meaningful games and eventually championships.
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Top notch post right here..
 
#28
#28
I have just noticed we are one and the same. Example: In July, we have posters who predict 8 to 9 win seasons and are so positive about it that the veins in their necks pop out. These posters are called "sunshine pumpers". Then, we have those fans that think we will win 5 to 7 games and hopefully go to a bowl game. These posters are called "negavols".

Fast forward to today, and the ones that were sunshine pumpers are now the new negavols, (with the veins still popping) and the original negavols are now called "hangers on". I sometimes feel like I am inside a pin ball machine bouncing back and forth reading all these posts. Expectations can be a terrible thing and it must be stopped in our lifetime!
 
#29
#29
ButchPlz said:
Did everyone not predict 5-7 to 7-5 this year?

That's exactly where we're headed. Why is everyone so bent out of shape over what most people expected would happen?

If I ever abandon being a Tennessee fan it won't be because of the school or the team, it will be because I'm sick of associating with Tennessee fans.
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So you are satisfied with a coach that is mediocre... one that only "meets" expectations?

You may have already abandoned being a UT fan and not know it.
 
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#30
#30
ButchPlz said:
Did everyone not predict 5-7 to 7-5 this year?

That's exactly where we're headed. Why is everyone so bent out of shape over what most people expected would happen?

If I ever abandon being a Tennessee fan it won't be because of the school or the team, it will be because I'm sick of associating with Tennessee fans.
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Because it would be nice for this program to actually exceed the modest expectations of the vast majority of the fan base in recent seasons of not having to back into a lower tier bowl game as a best case scenario for a change.
 
#31
#31
Cartervol said:
The guy is going to get his time here. I remember people preaching patience when Dooley was hired. I remember hearing things like "Process" Butch likes that one too. Bamboo=bricks.. I'm not saying Butch is Dooley but we've heard all this before. All we can hope is in 2 years we're not starting over again. That hurts worse than anything. If we do the next guy will at least have some talent to work with. Dooley left Butch very little to work with.
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So you don't want to be patient or accept the process because you want it all now? gotcha
 
#32
#32
sjt18 said:
So you are satisfied with a coach that is mediocre... one that only "meets" expectations?

You may have already abandoned being a UT fan and not know it.
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If you thought this team would win more than 7 games starting 22 freshmen you're probably the world's biggest idiot.
 
#34
#34
JonGrudensAgent said:
Because it would be nice for this program to actually exceed the modest expectations of the vast majority of the fan base in recent seasons of not having to back into a lower tier bowl game as a best case scenario for a change.
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Again, thinking a team of kids the majority of which had never been on an airplane before this season are going to waltz all over the SEC, no matter how weak you perceive it, is ridiculous.

The thing about freshmen players is that they aren't going to execute 100% of the time BECAUSE OF THEIR AGE. That's why winning in the SEC requires building.

You morons are driving me up the wall.
 
#35
#35
JohnMarxism said:
So you don't want to be patient or accept the process because you want it all now? gotcha
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Don't think he's saying that.. I think we all have been patient to this point and will have to continue so... All the belly aching in the world is not gonna change the fact we are playin the most freshmen in the SEC..
 
#36
#36
ButchPlz said:
Again, thinking a team of kids the majority of which had never been on an airplane before this season are going to waltz all over the SEC, no matter how weak you perceive it, is ridiculous.

The thing about freshmen players is that they aren't going to execute 100% of the time BECAUSE OF THEIR AGE. That's why winning in the SEC requires building.

You morons are driving me up the wall.
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Take a Xanax it helps.. I understand believe me.. Or just stop reading and posting lol
 
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#38
#38
ButchPlz said:
Again, thinking a team of kids the majority of which had never been on an airplane before this season are going to waltz all over the SEC, no matter how weak you perceive it, is ridiculous.

The thing about freshmen players is that they aren't going to execute 100% of the time BECAUSE OF THEIR AGE. That's why winning in the SEC requires building.

You morons are driving me up the wall.
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Hyperobolize much?

No one and I mean NO ONE on this site has said "waltz all over the SEC" this year.

When winning a game over that the Vols were favored in and expected to win last week by most prognosticators outside Knoxville becomes to much to hope for, maybe it's time you start looking at your expectations for the program and question whether you are a UT fan or a Butch Jones/Derek Dololey/ Lane Kiffin/whichever coach rolls in here fan.

From my perspective, you're just another coach worshipper.
 
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#39
#39
ButchPlz said:
If you thought this team would win more than 7 games starting 22 freshmen you're probably the world's biggest idiot.
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If you think poisoning the well is an effective debate tactic here then you are probably the world's biggest idiot. :):lol:

I have said for months there were 6-8 wins on the schedule depending on coaching and breaks.

FTR, Daj who isn't an idiot either has numbers that say UT has more talent than 8 opponents. He makes a convincing argument that he's researched in detail that regardless of any other factor including experience... the most talented team wins 70% of the time. IOW's... a 6-8 win team.

Oh, prior to UT, Daj says that Jones was a "+2" coach. IOW's, he avg'd winning two games per year MORE than his talent level said he should.
 
#40
#40
JonGrudensAgent said:
Hyperobolize much?

No one and I mean NO ONE on this site has said "waltz all over the SEC" this year.

When winning a game over that the Vols were favored in and expected to win last week by most prognosticators outside Knoxville becomes to much to hope for, maybe it's time you start looking at your expectations for the program and question whether you are a UT fan or a Butch Jones/Derek Dololey/ Lane Kiffin/whichever coach rolls in here fan.

From my perspective, you're just another coach worshipper.
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I hate to be this guy, but you might want to take a keyboarding and English language class before you consider hopping online again.

There were several people who picked UF last week.

You're not getting it. Freshmen aren't going to win every game they should, and freshmen aren't going to lose every game they should. The thing about playing a bunch of 18 year olds in the NFL's minor leagues is that you're not going to get consistency out of them, under any coach. That's the reality.

Hell, jackasses like you at Miss. St. wanted Mullen gone for many of the same reasons. Now he's finally got his experienced team built up and is winning all over.

Stop being a cowardly little clown and nut up to the fact that winning isn't easy. Firing the coaching staff would be a wonderful way to set us back another decade, but fortunately we don't have to worry about the neckbearded warriors on this site making those calls, mostly because you all don't have the cash to be meaningful.
 
#41
#41
ButchPlz said:
Again, thinking a team of kids the majority of which had never been on an airplane before this season are going to waltz all over the SEC, no matter how weak you perceive it, is ridiculous.

The thing about freshmen players is that they aren't going to execute 100% of the time BECAUSE OF THEIR AGE. That's why winning in the SEC requires building.

You morons are driving me up the wall.
Click to expand...

Also not sure what your definition of majority is, but it's wrong.

6 of 22 in the two deep on offense are true freshmen.

7 of 22 in the two deep on defense are true freshmen.

A little more time with a dictionary and a little less time watching the Butch Jones show and taking notes to try and prove how smart you are might help.
 
#42
#42
ButchPlz said:
I hate to be this guy, but you might want to take a keyboarding and English language class before you consider hopping online again.

There were several people who picked UF last week.

You're not getting it. Freshmen aren't going to win every game they should, and freshmen aren't going to lose every game they should. The thing about playing a bunch of 18 year olds in the NFL's minor leagues is that you're not going to get consistency out of them, under any coach. That's the reality.

Hell, jackasses like you at Miss. St. wanted Mullen gone for many of the same reasons. Now he's finally got his experienced team built up and is winning all over.

Stop being a cowardly little clown and nut up to the fact that winning isn't easy. Firing the coaching staff would be a wonderful way to set us back another decade, but fortunately we don't have to worry about the neckbearded warriors on this site making those calls, mostly because you all don't have the cash to be meaningful.
Click to expand...

I could care less what Miss St does with their coaching situation.

I am a Vols fan.

5/7 picked TN over FL last week at ESPN.

SEC Week 6 predictions - SEC Blog - ESPN

FSN picked the Vols.

Week 6 picks: Alabama, Oklahoma, Auburn and others on upset alert | FOX Sports


I know this is a lot to ask from you, but put down the Jones bobblehead you won off E Bay and check the links to see that you are simply wrong.

A little knowledge goes a long way. Especially for keyboard warriors such as yourself.
 
#44
#44
ButchPlz said:
Hell, jackasses like you at Miss. St. wanted Mullen gone for many of the same reasons. Now he's finally got his experienced team built up and is winning all over.
Click to expand...
In year one, Mullen improved the record. For a team that had had only one winning season in the previous 8 years... he then went on a four year run of winning records and bowl appearances.

If Jones gets UT to a bowl game in year two... few will complain. If he has UT in contention for the SEC in year 3 like Freeze has... virtually no one will complain.

It is NOT unreasonable to expect THIS team to make a bowl if Jones is the right caliber coach to lead UT back.

Stop being a cowardly little clown and nut up to the fact that winning isn't easy. Firing the coaching staff would be a wonderful way to set us back another decade, but fortunately we don't have to worry about the neckbearded warriors on this site making those calls, mostly because you all don't have the cash to be meaningful.
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Stop being a cowardly little clown (complete with neck beard) and nut up to the fact that no one has said the coaching staff should be fired this year. STOP WITH STRAW MAN ARGUMENTS.... it is a form of LYING.
 
#45
#45
Man... the Agent is primed this morning. Glad I'm not at the end of his bayonet this time....
 
#46
#46
sjt18 said:
Man... the Agent is primed this morning. Glad I'm not at the end of his bayonet this time....
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LOL

I actually enjoy our verbal exchanges on here.

Nice to get some legitimate football debate and discussion going as opposed to " Butch Gets it".

Stuff like what is on display in this thread gets tiresome and boring pretty quick but, when someone is trying to say we are starting 22 freshmen, it begs a response.

Have a good one. I am out.
 
#48
#48
JohnMarxism said:
So you don't want to be patient or accept the process because you want it all now? gotcha
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Who said that? Don't put words in my mouth. I'm telling you why people are impatient. It's Deja vu to some degree. No one knows truly. There is no guarantee that he'll ever do anything here. He'll get his time though is all i'm saying. So i take a middle of the road approach. I don't jump on the Butch will win X amount of titles here wagon, and i'm not on the gloom and doom wagon.. All these people claiming great things should play the lottery if they think it's such a sure thing he'll win here. No one knows and in 2 years he'll have to prove it..
 
#49
#49
the only way we beat enough to go bowling is to stay healthy and figure out a way for this team to stay positive and focused week after week and not getting beat down mentally. We have the talent for upsets, we just have to be there mentally to close them out. this is where the coaching staff really earns their money in my opinion
 
#50
#50
madbamahater said:
I'm with you. I like Butch. He just needs an new offensive coordinator
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This...sometimes I think our offense works in spite of him, not because of him.

We have most of the pieces of the pie, this is the one lacking in my opinion, to take us where we want to be...didn't think that at the beginning of the season, but I sure do now.
 
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