Reality check time

#52

GameTime

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#52
I think were playing a lot harder than anytime in the last several seasons. Do we goof up a lot and have a bench that is ineffective not to hard to see that is the case. Even if we lose the next four games I still think Harper has done a very good job with the roster she inherited. I had already drawn up my expectation before the season started and we're really close to what I expected. Have I been surprised by the way some players have performed yes I expected more from some and there are a couple that I expected less. I still think were headed for a 20 win season and I think that is a great start for Coach Harper.
Volfan, your post would be a great way to end this particular thread.....It's clear we all want the LVs to do better, and it's driving us all a little nuts.....Lady Vol fans are great.
 
#53

KellywillwinNC

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#53
Why are you here? Don't say it's because you like to talk basketball....All you do is tell us how bad off we are...
I am here because I love lady vol basketball..and Tennessee is in bad shape considering they once sent every recruiting class to at least one final four, but they haven't as much as sniffed one in over 10 years and who knows when or if they ever get backl. The expectations have been lowered a lot by the fan base and that is a fact
 
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#55

Amb3096

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#55
(Good call Nute)

I'd put Horston on the bench and take some pressure off of her ....She can be first relief for either Burrell or Massengill....

At this point in her career at UT, Jordan is an athlete trying to play basketball, not a basketball player that is also an athlete...Big difference...She has developing basketball skills, but loaded with athletic skills...(I changed skill level...You guys were right, my error)

Burrell is worth a try....
Burrell is the very definition of an athlete trying to play basketball. Her bball IQ is probably the lowest of the core players. She still needs to find that balance of coming and making things happen vs. letting the game come to her.

Jordan, warts and all, is still the better option right now.
 
#57

krichunaka

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#57
I am here because I love lady vol basketball..and Tennessee is in bad shape ..,.
Kelly, I’m using only a partial quote, not to take you out of context, but with your posting pattern this is how (I think) most of us (excepting what Madtown refers to as “negavols”) interpret your comments.
In other words it appears more likely that you’re here to gloat. It’s difficult to see your words in any other light.

*I would, however (very seriously), love to know where you’re getting so much insider scoop about recruiting. I’m fascinated by this part of the game.
Cheers, Kelly!
 
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#58

KellywillwinNC

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#58
Kelly, I’m using only a partial quote, not to take you out of context, but with your posting pattern this is how (I think) most of us (excepting what Madtown refers to as “negavols”) interpret your comments.
In other words it appears more likely that you’re here to gloat. It’s difficult to see your words in any other light.

*I would, however (very seriously), love to know where you’re getting so much insider scoop about recruiting. I’m fascinated by this part of the game.
Cheers, Kelly!
I haven't gloated much about Oregon at all even tho I think they will be the team to beat in the tournament.

I just happen to know someone who is very informed about the recruiting situation..I myself have no insider knowledge tho, so I am just like you guys, a regular poster
 
#59

GameTime

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#59
Burrell is the very definition of an athlete trying to play basketball. Her bball IQ is probably the lowest of the core players. She still needs to find that balance of coming and making things happen vs. letting the game come to her.

Jordan, warts and all, is still the better option right now.
By letting Jordan be first off the bench at the guard position, it would give her time to get use to the flow of the game....Just maybe, she may find her pace...By letting Burrell start, she might find her pace too....Seems logical to try something different...If it doesn't work, go back to the old way.

These two girls are fine athletes, but their in game basketball decisions are "often questionable" which are leading to a boat load of turnovers, which are leading to losses....
 
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#62

Volfan2012

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#62
I am here because I love lady vol basketball..and Tennessee is in bad shape considering they once sent every recruiting class to at least one final four, but they haven't as much as sniffed one in over 10 years and who knows when or if they ever get backl. The expectations have been lowered a lot by the fan base and that is a fact
You have to lower your expectations when you don't have the players. We had them with Holly she didn't do to well got fired. Coach Harper has a far weaker roster than what Holly had one five star transferred, a high four star transferred, the top juco graduated, a four star guard graduated, and a five star that we were depending on got injured. So this year we'll finish somewhere between second and sixth in the SEC what we do going forward determines that. We'll win over 20 games and we'll have double digit SEC wins. As far as recruiting I pay very little attention to Hoopgurlz at all a little more attention to Prospect Nation. Still to be determined where we finish in recruiting I want have a judgement on it until it is completed. Right now we have one recruit number 35 that has 15 double doubles as a junior. She has a lot of potential to be terrific player because of her offensive ability. Next season all depends on the progression of freshmen Horston and Key. We have everybody that is playing a lot back and we'll again have Green back at the two guard. We have two promising players that can at least shoot the ball coming off the bench. Looks a lot better next season as far a depth and experience which are the two key factors to be a fantastic team.
 
#64

Volfan2012

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#64
This team only needs a few pieces to be elite again, hopefully Kelly can address that in recruiting and developing.
To really make it look very promising next season I think we need a quick effective Grad Transfer point guard and move Jordan to two guard. Green might be able to fill that role but going three deep there with another quick player is never a bad thing. Overall however if the freshmen progress in the off season and they have to then were looking really good for a top three SEC finish and depending on what kind of schedule we draw compete for the title in the SEC.
 
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#65

VolunteerCeltic

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#65
To really make it look very promising next season I think we need a quick effective Grad Transfer point guard and move Jordan to two guard. Green might be able to fill that role but going three deep there with another quick player is never a bad thing. Overall however if the freshmen progress in the off season and they have to then were looking really good for a top three SEC finish and depending on what kind of schedule we draw compete for the title in the SEC.
I agree, the assessment above was very good!
 
#67
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#67
I am always very hesitant to visit this site after a loss because the drive-by-posters and negavols come out in droves. And many others get caught in the wild mood swings between jubilation in believing that the LVs have "turned the corner" to greatness (We WILL BE SOUTH CAROLINA!) and and we should bench all the players and maybe rethink our coaching situation (post-loss). [Disclaimer: I am stating the extreme ends of these poles for illustrative effect].

Here is what I believe is a realistic assessment:

The LVs are ranked 23rd (for now) and that is pretty good assessment of their national standing. They are a slightly above average team and when they play the #1 or #3, they expectedly get dominated after some extended of period of putting up a “good fight.”

Why are the LVs a middling team?

Inexperienced players in crucial roles.

Freshman transition to the college game at different rates. We saw that USC freshman are ahead of the curve on Key and Jordan.
In comparison to Key, Boston is more “D1 ready” in terms of functional strength and post moves. Tamari is a GREAT weak-side defender and shot blocker. If the LVs had a better upper class post player so that TK could be role player with defensive responsibilities, we would all be singing her praises. Right now, however, Key is being asked to do more than she is prepared for. I see some signs of development and if she closes the gap by March…..

Jordan is struggling for different reasons. I think she is playing a little rushed. Last night, she had several plays where she made a great move to get an easy lay-up but could not finish or, once again forced passes when easier options were available.

While critics are saying “bench her” because of TO, well, one of the toughest transitions that freshman have to make is playing defense with intensity and Jordan is way ahead of the curve on that dimension—like Key her defensive game is ahead of the offensive game. When Jordan goes out, the defensive quality as a unit drops.

Another reason, you can’t drop Jordan is next;

A shortage of top-level D1 caliber players.

I know a controversial statement and I am not disparaging the human worth of any LV but sports exposes shortcomings with brutal honesty.

After the LSU and Bama games, there were posters basically saying “take that you Lou doubters, she is the glue, She IS this and she is that.”

Yes, Lou can hold her own against teams that are unranked and fighting for an NCAA tourney bid (i.e., teams that are just a notch below the LVs at this stage). But, she lacks the necessary physical tools to hold up well against USC, Uconn, Stanford, Oregon and Baylor level opponents. On those teams, she would NOT be a starter and, at the very best, would be a role player (and in all honesty she probably does not make those rosters). I like her as a player: great hustle, smart and lots of other positive attributes but she is the caliber of player you would expect to find playing for a mid-level, mid-major conference team, not one with serious Final four aspirations

Rae has more overall ability but her game, at its current state, would not see much floor time for these top 10 clubs either.

Harris, KK, McCoy same story as Lou.

The LVs have one player who would start on just about any team – Rennia Davis. They have one player for whom coaches would accept the growing pains to build for the future – Jordan and one player who would be an impact on any top team (though maybe not a starter) – Zaay Green. And one, who would be a solid role player as a back-up PG Jazz.

So, missing Zaay due to injury, the LVs line-up with 3 players who more or less have the talent/skill set to play in some role at a top-tier D1 level and a group of roles players with varying degrees of upside.

For this group to compete, they have to play outstanding, cohesive defense. Against elite teams, they currently seem to be able to hold that level for about ½ game. Turnovers make that task even more challenging.

But the LVs are an offensively challenged team. To be competitive in the top ten, the LVs need 20+ points from Rennia, plus good production from Jordan and a spark from Rae and Jazz (as the team stands right now). Lou is not consistent with her shot and our posts struggle against top teams to score. Zaay is not available to provide that 3 option which would unbalance defenses. As good as Rennia is, quality teams can take her out of the offense, given the lack of scoring threats around here. Per last night’s game, her stat line looked pretty good at the end but, when the game was really being decided in the first half, USC shut Rennia down.

I don’t mean this comment as diatribe against the team. I predict they will look MUCH different in March than they do now. I think Jordan will settle down. [With this collection of players, Kellie simply cannot bench Jordan. She has to give her experience and hope that the kinks can be worked out by March.]

Rae will get a little more consistent and we have to believe that Jazz’s offensive game will continue to gain momentum and that we will see some improvement in the other LVs.

Currently, the critics are acting like the LVs are somehow underachieving and pointing fingers at who is to blame. But when you break it down player-by-player, the LVs actually will need to overachieve to make the Sweet 16. And Kellie and her staff are in a tough position because anything less than a Sweet 16 finish will be seen as a disappointment. That is the Catch-22 she has to resolve through “the process." I am betting she does.
Recruiting doesn’t seem to be on par with the Oregon’s/Huskies/Stanford’s of the world either. 0 McDonalds All Americans
 
#68

Creekdog

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#68
I disagree totally and this is why if they're not reading these forms. They're missing a valuable source of information and available source of potentials. Players. Even if the players don't work out and the source is Not credible it is still a source. And there are quite a few very basketball knowledgeable Posters on the site and they ignore the advice. And the wisdom that comes from some of these posters. And I do mean some of these posters. Would be a Fool's play. And I know for a fact know that this isn't the only thing that reads. Social media other teams do so, and I know this to be a fact.
The problem is their discerning the difference between what is valuable and what is garbage. Just a generalized statement, Coach. Not calling out any particular forum member in regards to the their expertise. But, I still think you overestimate the degree to which anybody officially associated with the team reads this forum.
 
#69

Volfan2012

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#69
The problem is their discerning the difference between what is valuable and what is garbage. Just a generalized statement, Coach. Not calling out any particular forum member in regards to the their expertise. But, I still think you overestimate the degree to which anybody officially associated with the team reads this forum.
If they read this site not as smart as I thought they were. Nothing to be learned here that they shouldn't already be aware of.
 
#71

lvocd

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#71
Oh... and yes, Lady Vols read message boards, and that does NOT mean anything about the program except that it is comprised of normal 18- to 20-something-year-olds who have grown up with social media being a very important part of their lives.

If anyone here thinks the players on the Top 10 teams right now don’t also care so deeply about what other people think of them that they sneak peeks at fan boards, too, then I would submit that it’s highly likely that you simply don’t know any current D1 athletes. To think that it’s a crazy idea to think that they read message boards like this one IS the crazy idea.

Some coaches ask their players to ignore boards like this one, but kids are kids. Yes, what we say can, and does, reach the eyes of curious players. It’s 100% normal for young people moving into adulthood to care too much what other people think. We do say too much, too often. Certainly not intending to hurt anyone, but I know for a fact that it does.
 
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#72

Creekdog

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#72
Oh... and yes, Lady Vols read message boards, and that does NOT mean anything about the program except that it is comprised of normal 18- to 20-something-year-olds who have grown up with social media being a very important part of their lives.

If anyone here thinks the players on the Top 10 teams right now don’t also care so deeply about what other people think of them that they sneak peeks at fan boards, too, then I would submit that it’s highly likely that you simply don’t know any current D1 athletes. To think that it’s a crazy idea to think that they read message boards like this one IS the crazy idea.

Some coaches ask their players to ignore boards like this one, but kids are kids. Yes, what we say can, and does, reach the eyes of curious players. It’s 100% normal for young people moving into adulthood to care too much what other people think. We do say too much, too often. Certainly not intending to hurt anyone, but I know for a fact that it does.
I have
Oh... and yes, Lady Vols read message boards, and that does NOT mean anything about the program except that it is comprised of normal 18- to 20-something-year-olds who have grown up with social media being a very important part of their lives.

If anyone here thinks the players on the Top 10 teams right now don’t also care so deeply about what other people think of them that they sneak peeks at fan boards, too, then I would submit that it’s highly likely that you simply don’t know any current D1 athletes. To think that it’s a crazy idea to think that they read message boards like this one IS the crazy idea.

Some coaches ask their players to ignore boards like this one, but kids are kids. Yes, what we say can, and does, reach the eyes of curious players. It’s 100% normal for young people moving into adulthood to care too much what other people think. We do say too much, too often. Certainly not intending to hurt anyone, but I know for a fact that it does.
I have a nephew who plays D1 baseball. I'll ask him for his take. I think more Twitter and Instagram, not so much fan forums.
 
#73

creekdipper

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#73
Thank-you, I appreciate the correction, I do so hate to have my name misspelled as well.
I imagine it was a lot worse when she was Kellie Jolly. I still have trouble remembering whether there's an "e" in her last name.

Now let's not even bring up Kasi's full name. I imagine most of us would lose a spelling challenge there.
 
#74

creekdipper

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#74
Some coaches ask their players to ignore boards like this one, but kids are kids. Yes, what we say can, and does, reach the eyes of curious players. It’s 100% normal for young people moving into adulthood to care too much what other people think. We do say too much, too often. Certainly not intending to hurt anyone, but I know for a fact that it does.
We should also keep in mind that women in general are more sensitive to comments about their appearance. If we think a player needs more off-season conditioning or isn't in shape to withstand extended times on the floor, we can leave it at that commentary. As you say, words can (and do) hurt. That's just human response. And those same principles and standards should apply to opposing players, too.

Speaking of appearances, I'd like to add (in a grandfatherly, uncreepy way) that Miss Kamera Harris could have a future in modeling after she hangs up the sneakers!
 
#75

madtownvol

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#75
I have
I have a nephew who plays D1 baseball. I'll ask him for his take. I think more Twitter and Instagram, not so much fan forums.
I would agree that those social media forums are the relevant ones. Fan forums are the domain of cultural dinosaurs. And let's not bring up extinction okay? I have enough to worry about.....
 

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